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Comment by tombert | Hacker News Reader

I understand why these things have to be posted, but I would be lying if I said that I wasn't utterly exhausted by the constant shit that the Trump administration is spitting at us. I mean, I get it, bad shit needs to be reported on, the Trump admin does a lot of bad shit, it makes sense, but it's just extremely tiring.

I know that's kind of the point, to bombard us with all this shit all at once so that we are exhausted and withdraw, but I kind of just wish that about half of America had just elected a fucking grownup instead of a stupid manchild and his Diablo-cheating South African toadie (or maybe the other way around).

I vote in every election that I am legally allowed to vote in, and I'm not sure what else I can do. I guess just stay informed and prepare for four more years of being exhausted.

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You said you didn't know what to do, so some ideas to start the ideas flowing for you:

- support media, particularly local.

- there are protests to attend if that's your thing. Tesla takedown is one set that's getting a lot of traction. (Note: these are peaceful protests; don't hurt people's cars). There's a broad "hands off" protest April 5, as another example.

- build and stay in touch with community.

- encourage others to do the same. Can you get folks to move off Twitter? Get some web site you're associated with to replace their twitter share icon with a masto/bsky one? Get folks to make a plan to vote in the next election? To themselves support local media or organizations? Perhaps to run for school board or other local office?

> support media, particularly local.

Agreed. No argument on that.

> there are protests to attend if that's your thing.

I'm afraid they're not. I'm happy to donate money to causes for people to protest but just being honest, I'm probably not going to do it.

> Tesla takedown is getting a lot of traction

I don't really want to damage strangers' property. I don't own any car as I just take public transportation, so I can't really say I'm "boycotting" Tesla any more than any other brand.

> Can you get folks to move off Twitter?

None of my family or friends were really using Twitter even before Elon bought it.

> To make a plan to vote in the next election?

All my family and friends vote in every election anyway.

> To themselves support local media or organizations?

Again, agreed on that. I'll mention that to parents next time I talk to them.

> Perhaps to run for school board or other local office?

I've debated it, but I think I'm a bit too eccentric to be a good politician. I am also afraid it would turn me evil.

I don't really disagree with anything you said, just that I'm already doing most of what you suggested.

> I don't really want to damage strangers' property. I don't own any car as I just take public transportation, so I can't really say I'm "boycotting" Tesla any more than any other brand.

Divest of Tesla. In a 401k move from index funds to other funds without or less TSLA. Or invest in inverse EFTs that essentially short Tesla - TSLS, TSLQ, and TSLZ. Not buying a Tesla or torching a Cybertruck are not the only options.

> I don't really want to damage strangers' property

You know you can hold up a sign and chant insulting pro-democracy insults at Elon Musk without destroying property, right?

Tesla takedown is not about damaging property - it's strictly peaceful protests to discourage people from buying Tesla, and to raise awareness of Musk's role in DOGE and breaking the government.

Editorializing: A lot of folks bought Teslas because they wanted to do good in the world. Most of the Tesla drivers out there are allies of sanity. Except maybe those ugly trucks. :) :)

Personally, I respect reluctance to protest. Protest is situationally effective and sometimes necessary, but holds a dramatically outsized place in public imagination. So much of effective politics happens elsewhere.

The core of politics is building coalitions of cooperation that can sustain and grow themselves, ideally around habits of ongoing participation and policy goals that have wide benefits.

That means you have to start by developing habits. You are a political organization of one. What habits of schedule and focus will sustain that? How will you widen them into an organization of two, of six, of twelve, and more?

> I've debated it, but I think I'm a bit too eccentric to be a good politician.

There may be an example or two of people who many would find eccentric who are currently holding elected office. You never know.

> I am also afraid it would turn me evil.

The key is making sure that you don't ever place yourself outside relationships of accountability. As long as you can think of recent conversations where you've engaged in reflective give and take with a personal or public critic that you have sustained relationships with, chances are pretty good you're OK.

How have those methods worked against authoritarian governments historically? I think we need to start being more realistic.

Every situation is unique. The US is a mess in part because of oligarchical control of media, and we still have lots of media organizations that maintain high quality journalism standards. Nationally, ProPublica is doing a great job, for example. Locally it's more spotty - in Pittsburgh, WESA (our local NPR news station) is a reliable and good source of information about local goings-on.

In Russia, you'll probably get thrown in prison if you protest against some of the state-sanctioned oligarchs. That's not the case in the US (i hate that I probably have to say 'yet' here) if you're a citizen. How much good will it do? Hard to measure. Most attempts to resist regimes like this are a matter of trying a lot of things and seeing what sticks.

Call your representatives and senators. Do it at least weekly. They're more responsive to things that take time. Show up to their town halls if they're brave enough to host them. Pick a few issues, learn enough about them to comment intelligently, and get involved. Say, opposing HJ 44 (a proposal that would roll back Biden-era lead water pipe replacement requirements). Your senators and reps can probably be doing more. Encourage them. :)

Vote your wallet and your retirement account. Divest of TSLA. Bias towards companies that are pushing back.

It's better to have a regular schedule of things you participate in that try to move the needle than to feel helpless. Tyrants rule through helplessness. We're not. We're not even close.

As far as I can tell my local media and government are more corrupt than national / federal. All local newspapers, radio stations, and TV "news" are owned by a handful of entities.

Citizens who practice free speech are being disappeared to El Salvador.

If you organize resistance, you will be targeted by billionaires and their massive media networks.

You might have an interest in this: https://globalcomment.com/how-to-defeat-an-autocrat-flocking...

Yes - we ALL have to flock together around the basic concepts that unite us. I think this is what we are seeing with the Tesla protests and we need to push harder to get to the 3.5% of the population that forces the system to adjust.

Not just an inferred point, it's been explicitly stated before. In the longer form interviews (can't find everything in full at the moment), the context is the news media in particular, but it applies to the general public as well.

[1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiaU8P9y-wU

[2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm5xxlajTW0 (short clip)

[3]https://www.youtube.com/shorts/iTSgL_R1CC4 (another short clip)

There are a few things that are on their way to SCOTUS. Be prepared to react to the elimination of independent agencies or the legalization of impoundment.

Yes, the noise is to make you exhausted/miss the important things. Probably safe to ignore talk about invading Greenland.

Voting is the minimum of civic duty, not the maximum.

Sure. What are you doing outside of voting?

I’m an active DSA member. What about you?

And how is that attacking the problems that led here?

Sure, but is that actually doing something?

This isn't meant to be passive aggressive; presumably if you're advertising it, you're doing more than "just being a member", I'm just curious what that is.

Civil disobedience. There's an entire spectrum of what you can do with that.

Regarding civic duty, I would start by “being civil with your fellow citizens”. The irony is not lost on me.

Edit: To be clear, my comment is not aimed at you. I mean we’re missing the A in the ABCs of civic duty. It’s each person for themselves.

How was my response uncivil? Your reply is bad faith because it provides no evidence.

I didn’t intend to offend you, neither did I mean to say you were wrong. I apologize if my words came across that way.

My point was a play on the word “civil” and how the bare minimum duty of a citizen should be to love thy neighbour.

Voting is not a civic duty. I have every right NOT to vote. It's my voice and I can use it as I please. Forcing me into a ballot box to pick between two awful choices is not civilized.

I didn't force you to do anything. No one did. I'm just judging you.

> I'm just judging you.

Ah so your sense of civics is that easy to depart with?

I take it you think no one could judge you for your position?

> Ah so your sense of civics is that easy to depart with?

I don't really agree with the sentiment of "be nice to people doing stupid stuff" that seems to permeate around here, so it's not really a "gotcha" to point out that I'm being a judgmental asshole.

> I take it you think no one could judge you for your position?

I don't give a shit if people judge me. I have my opinions. You're free to think that position is stupid if you want. There's eight billion other people on this planet, there's always going to be people who think my opinions are stupid. I think yours is stupid. It's a beautiful system.

> I don't really agree with the sentiment of "be nice to people doing stupid stuff"

What is your goal?

> I don't give a shit if people judge me. I have my opinions.

People would hear more of them if they weren't so coarse. Be generous. You'd might be surprised what you're missing.

I don’t really have a “goal”.

I don’t even know that I agree with the conclusion that people would hear more of my opinions if I were nicer, but even if I grant that, I also don’t particularly care if my opinions have reach.

I was going to type up a lecture to why I think it’s dumb to not vote, but I am sure you’ve heard it before, and frankly even if I had the most eloquent and amazing argument ever I doubt that it would change your opinion on this, so I can’t really be bothered.

As a wise man once said, there may not be anybody you are excited to vote for, but there is almost certainly somebody you would like to vote against.

I'd rather have more than 2 parties.

You can vote against people. To me that's a tacit admission that you're accepting the proffer. As there's no way on your vote to indicate that it's a vote of protest vs. a vote of support. The candidate you vote for will see no difference. You'll have reduced your already meager position even further.

I do not accept this.

I mean if you want to get into the anti-democratic nature of the Unit Rule next I'd be happy to oblige you.

Your position is not automatically "good" just because school and MTV told you it was.

You should have to vote, you just don't have to vote for anyone. A blank ballot is still a vote. But you have to show up.

What if you could cast a negative vote?

That is, you could either vote for one candidate, or against one candidate.

Technically I'd be voting against both.

If enough people do this then the candidates should be thrown out and a new election held.

This would lead to insane chaos but if everyone where an honest actor it could be beautiful.

A civic duty is not a legal duty. You have the legal right not to vote. My opinion is you are failing your government and your own interests when you don't vote.

I agree that plurality voting is bad. We should have a system where candidates are ranked, so voter sentiment is better expressed and more than two candidates have a chance at winning.

The system we have now needs to be worked, until we get a new system. If you dislike all options equally, then vote for someone else as a protest. If you have a preference of one major candidate over the other, it is in your interest to express that. Sitting at home and doing nothing is the worst.

I challenge you to at least research ranked-pair or ranked choice voting (or any alternative form of voting) and write your city councilman about it. Or contact a voting reform organization to ask how you can help change your city.

> you are failing your government and your own interests when you don't vote.

This is a representative democracy. How exactly am I "failing my interests" when I don't vote?

I don't see how this being a representative democracy at all implies "not voting" is a wise strategy.

If you have any opinion on the operation of government and you don't express it when asked, please explain how that's beneficial to you.

In non-individualist thought, voting might be seen as a ethical duty to protect fellow citizens from harm.

If you dont like any of the candidates, run yourself.

Choosing to do nothing is declaring that you dont care.

Protest. Go onto the streets. Doing nothing means accepting the way things are

Run for office and aggressively fight back.

> I understand why these things have to be posted, but I would be lying if I said that I wasn't utterly exhausted by the constant shit that the Trump administration is spitting at us.

From 2017:

* https://www.vox.com/polyarchy/2017/3/7/14844120/how-to-fight...

The firehouse is also a deliberate strategy:

> The firehose of falsehood, also known as firehosing, is a propaganda technique in which a large number of messages are broadcast rapidly, repetitively, and continuously over multiple channels (like news and social media) without regard for truth or consistency. An outgrowth of Soviet propaganda techniques, the firehose of falsehood is a contemporary model for Russian propaganda under Russian President Vladimir Putin.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firehose_of_falsehood

* https://www.rand.org/pubs/perspectives/PE198.html

If you need to take a break, certain do so ("touch grass"), but be mindful that everyone's support is needed, and this will be a marathon.

See also recent post on Snyder's book On Tyranny:

* https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43503004

Think in Bayesian terms. If you update your priors at all when the lie comes, then the firehose will overwhelm you, because the lie (or a similar, related lie) comes so often. If you update at all, then you wind up believing it.

But the only defense is to not update your priors. That means that you don't update on things that are actually true, either.

This is basically the death of epistemology. How do you know, and how do you know you know? It's no longer possible in this environment.

Postmodernism talked about a post-truth world. Putin has made it a reality.

You do you. Continue to vote, and if you can find a local cause that you can give time and attention to, do that. If you can find some small way you can help people who are affected, do that. Subscribe to news sources you trust and think are shining a light on the right things. Maybe setup small donations to candidates you think are pushing the country in the right direction. Not everyone needs to fight every fight.

I do donate to candidates that I think are less evil than the average politician.

A bit more locally; my wife is Mexican and as such I have a lot of Mexican in-laws. I have been helping my brother-in-law deal with immigration lawyers (and paid for them) in hopes that he might be able to get his citizenship soon-ish.

If I felt like anything I did in the grand political scope would do anything, I'd do it. I used to be a lot more active in this stuff, but it's pretty easy to get disillusioned and cynical with this stuff.

Impossible to care about everything all at once, and easy to get disillusioned and shut down to nothing. Keep pushing in the ways that you can, give the energy that you can, and what more can anyone ask of you?

People voted for Trump because the democratic party is THAT bad. Instead of keeping attacking Trump maybe it is time to ponder what is it about the current democratic party that made so many people disapprove of them.

Plenty of other reasons they could have voted the way they did?

https://navigatorresearch.org/2024-post-election-survey-the-...

I haven't listed the reasons I am pointing the underlying lack of internal critisism in the democractic party and their supporters.

The democractic party was terrible in regards to many issues many people cared about.

You should stop caring about Trump and care about what people care about.

> You should stop caring about Trump and care about what people care about.

Not sure what you mean? All I shared was a set of exit polls?

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