It's the hottest car company. You can't buy one in America | Hacker News Reader

It's the hottest car company. You can't buy one in America

cnn.com

70 pointsrvnx78 comments

Life long car nerd here. Sat in a BYD dolphin last year, expecting it to feel cheap and nasty. Nothing of the sort. Everything felt as good as a decent European car (people often reference VW but I think others are as good). It all seemed very substantial and well put together. Panel gaps definitely better than the tesla I drove later in the day.

Don't make the mistake of thinking these are alibaba quality junk. I think legacy car makers and tesla (or at least musk) have been doing that for years and now it will come to bite them.

What’s your experience like with BYD cars that have over 25,000 miles / 3 years old with regards to quality? Sincere question as I can’t find any reviews of how they hold up. Can they maintain the fit and finish and functionality of a typical American use case?

I don't have any, but I wouldn't expect them to degrade any worse than anything else built to the same standard. Everything on it appeared to be "OEM quality" as people are fond of saying.

Remember that Tesla thought they could get away from that by using large touchscreens that then leaked, etc.. I don't see that with BYD - they seem to be using the same quality of parts that household car brands in Europe do, so I'd expect them to last as well.

I just got a BYD Seal to replace my aging Mercedes, the Seal is more luxurious than the Mercedes. I was really surprised, it's a fantastic car. It's made me like driving around again!

It is really weird to refer to everything that is not "the one company I consider cool today" as "legacy".

I think "legacy car makers" refers to the car makers who started when combustibles were the only way we (commonly) energized cars, not just that they were started before the currently trendy company.

Wasn't meant like that, was just a term I've heard used a lot in the industry - i.e. traditional "ICE" manufacturers who are very much late to the party in terms of both EV adoption (i.e. everyone except Nissan and Renault), and the impact of Chinese makers (which is everyone, including Tesla).

Can we change the title to mention BYD and not copy/paste CNN clickbait?

By the time the title changes it will be about Xiaomi.

I’ve struggled with this HN posting guideline:

“Otherwise please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize.”

I mean, I can’t make the determination that it’s linkbait. Is it really the hottest car company? I already know I cannot buy in the US.

Probably just easier to leave it as is, IMO.

The title is withholding key information while making a vague superlative claim, amongst other common clickbait techniques like talking in second person. IMO this title isn't good as-is, even just replacing `It's` with `BYD is` would be a huge improvement.

Thanks for being so thoughtful about this. I think you made the right decision, although I can see how others might feel otherwise since the guideline is so subjective.

I think the GP's issue is more with CNN's title than yours. You did well to follow the guideline, but I personally agree that mentioning BYD in the title would improve it, as the CNN title is very clickbaity.

Unless I'm missing something, rvnx was the one who submitted this post. Not garciasn.

garciasn was just mentioning how they've struggled with the guideline themselves, since it does get subjective.

Ahh, thanks, I didn't notice.

The biggest click bait is the “It” which can clearly be seamlessly replaced with BYD, providing vastly increased utility at basically no increased complexity; no hard value determination needed. Intentionally removing useful information in an attempt to abuse the curiosity of readers and drive numbers is a type of enshittification in the news and information sphere.

In "solidarity" with the U.S., Canada also has a 100% tariff on BYD cars.

China is trying to seduce the new Carney administration to lower that tariff with the promise of building a BYD factory in the country. It would be a beachhead to, later on, enter the U.S. market.

As a Canadian I hope it goes well. We desperately need to stop this "partnership with the U.S." belief. Partnership with an abusive partner is dangerous.

EU has "BYD tarrifs" as well - China is subsidizing it's electric car industry and rest of the world isn't to happy about losing manufacturing jobs, despite pandering to green transition and whatnot.

It's one thing to want to transition to green sources of energy, and another thing to unfairly compete with subsidies. I support tariffs that aim to counterbalance the latter.

This is counterproductive when you also have subsides for the green transition!

Why? It's fine to subsidize electric cars, when Chinese electric cars cost the same as German electric cars.

BYD are building a plant in Hungary. I'm not sure how subsidised they are - in their accounts they make a profit and pay taxes. But wages are lower in China.

As an American I also hope it goes well - I'd like them to get that beachhead, or be able to import one and get it serviced in north america.

Trump has said if the Chinese build a plant in Mexico he'll just tariff it up and BYD are kind of non confrontational so that's probably not happening till the next presidency.

> he'll just tariff it up

Yes, he will tariff up everything. But after a while, the average Joe will understand what the word "tariff" means. And then Joe won't be happy and the midterm elections will come.

It would be hilarious if he did that and BYD said "Go for it" and they just sold cars everywhere except the US. Extra points if they never had any intention of selling those cars in the US. Extra extra points if they bought out plants manufacturing parts for American cars and just stopped doing that and made BYD parts for BYD cars not being sold in the US.

In other words, proceed as if the US was completely irrelevant to their plans.

>It would be hilarious if he did that and BYD said "Go for it" and they just sold cars everywhere except the US.

EU tariffs BYD around 28%.

Sure, but Trump hates the EU, so do it anyway. If BYD built a few plants in the EU for making premium vehicles, they could probably massage that tariff situation a bit.

The point is to ignore the US and just work around it. I certainly would if I were in charge of a multi-national corporation outside the US.

For reference, Chinese labor costs are 1/3 American, so that provides a ~ $2000 advantage. Europe's analysis of their subsidies pegs it at 17%.

That's pretty small compared to the price advantage they have. It helps, but it's quite clear they are doing a lot more than taking advantage of these differences .

I assume producing the batteries is cheaper due to more lax environmental / labor laws.

AFAICT its mostly the refining that's nasty. American batteries generally use lithium refined in China, so everybody gets that advantage.

I'm all for having a cheap, high quality alternative to light a fire under the incumbents' asses, but I'm a little paranoid about the potential security aspect.

Are these cars network connected? Do they have cameras/microphones? Is the software auditable?

Imagine they become as popular as Teslas, and China decides it needs to cause some logistics chaos and flips the switch to turn each one into the equivalent of a large boulder blocking whatever lane it's currently in.

I'm not saying there _is_ such a switch, but we've already had a few scares about backdoored networking equipment.

I’m less concerned about logistic chaos and more concerned about them harvesting information to feed CCP AI war machines.

Based on some long term tests on YouTube it seems to me BYD would likely get sued to oblivion if they didn’t be honest with their range claims and charging times with the US market. Most Americans tend to expect a lot from their vehicles - BYD might actually have issues when reviews and quality issues become apparent. Then again panel gaps on Teslas didn’t stop buyers from paying more for less, though competition was lacking, and now a recall because the wrong adhesive was used on the trucks is a laughing stock.

I am eager to see a BYD compared to a new MB CLA.

I don't know about the CLA, but I have an A-class (admittedly, ten years old) and a BYD Seal, and the build quality/feel of the Seal is around the same as Mercedes cars, except for half the price. I've test-driven some recent Mercedes cars, and both the BYD and the Mercedes (as you'd expect) felt premium.

I really do like BYD's approach of "everything is standard, no addons", compared to MB's nickel-and-diming you on the features, though.

BYD measures range using the WLTP standard in China. If they sold in the States they'd use the EPA measurement, which would result in lower numbers. As long as they accurately applied EPA they could show good faith and would likely prevail in a lawsuit.

>Having dominated its home market of China, the world’s largest auto market, BYD is starting to expand globally, with notable exceptions like the United States, a country it is effectively barred from due to 100% tariffs on its passenger cars.

I can't believe that Trump and Musk conspired to put a 100% tariff on these cars. This will really screws over American consumers as the average price for a new car reaches over $50,000. Clearly Trump and Musk hate America.

Yes, not all products are being sold in every country. I had to buy the phone I liked on ebay from an US based seller because it wasn't available in my country.

That's true, especially when countries try to protect their national market for subpar cars that are more expensive.

Used to be (maybe it still is?) relatively popular on this forum for a country to want to maintain its ability to produce things, as opposed to depending on other countries.

It's good to be able to produce things but you can't produce all the things as a country. You can't even produce all the things you need.

I would think the US, due to its size and resources, should be able to produce most things. At least something like cars, which doesn’t depend on weather or other rare qualities, but rather just an educated and sufficient workforce.

Few nations in the world get to have that kind of luxury.

I'm no car manufacturer, nor do I work in the industry, but seems to me quite a bit of national resources are missing if the US wanted to be completely independent when making cars, resources like lithium, cobalt, natural rubber and even rare earth elements. Probably more I'm missing.

Isn't lithium one of the most abundant elements on the planet?

with concentration high enough to be economically viable to mine, no.

How about concentrations high enough to be independent, which is the topic at hand?

I don't think it's popular in this forum that countries should not depend on other countries and produce their own things, like tech companies

There is being able to produce things ... and then there is being forced subpar thing for more money. You know, there is being able to compete in a capitalist market and there is not being able to compete, but being protected while others pay for it.

There's protecting national interest/security/industry, and then there's protecting existing incumbents. If we tax imports, we should also be doing everything we can to help new players in the market we are trying to protect. After all, strong markets are all about competition.

Is the US not? $7,500 EV tax credit, 30% EV charger installation tax credit for lower income census tracts, pretty much every county pays at least a few hundred dollars towards EV charger installation.

What existing incumbent is being protected? The policy, even as passed when Democrats were in power, protects whoever manufactures in the US, regardless of where the shareholders are.

BYD is cool and all, but what I really want is one of those new Xiaomi roadsters.

$73,000. >1500 horsepower. 0-60 in less than 2 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNpBzwx1SnY

Even with a 100% tariff, it might be a bargain (and would turn more heads than a $600k Ferrari), if it's compatible with US charging infrastructure. (Need to check.)

So now Xiaomi does cars? Where's Apple's iCar?

Apple canceled Project Titan in 2024 after 10 years of development.

Apple probably made a mistake trying to do it in house rather than getting a chinese company to knock one out to thier specs.

Crazy thing is, imagine Apple just sold that car -- the Xiaomi SU7. Rebadged it, tinkered a bit with the computers and the paint, and didn't change anything else worth writing about. I think it would instantly become one of the top car companies in the world. Just that simple.

Makes you wonder why they don't do it.

Very relevant "Xiaomi is Why Apple Should Have Made a Car" https://youtube.com/watch?v=IYz9kxLHj7g

How does that video show that Apple “should have made a car”? The video spends time explaining Xiaomi’s history, but spends no time justifying the clickbait title other than implying Xiaomi’s rise in stock price as the reason.

Apple have completely missed the boat now due to Tim Apple's incompetence. If Steve were here then there would be an Apple Car.

Yeah the SU7 Ultra is cool. A four door you can drive to the shops and also break the lap record at your local race track. I'm not sure that's been done before. Maybe I'll see if I can get one if I have a spare 73k. I'm a Brit so it's not quite as hard as for the US I think.

What do you mean? The UK's per-capita GDP is $50k, whereas the US's is $80k. Or do you mean it's easier to actually find someone who'll sell you a Chinese cars in the UK?

Probably a reference to tarrifs.

I meant it's probably easier to buy/import the car.

Like I found a site listing the SU7 max for £45k, though I'm not sure it's actually available yet https://wevee.uk/xiaomi/su7/max-101kwh

These are unbelievable. Makes you realize how backwards EV cars and tech are in the USA.

It's really bizarre, the American animus towards Asian EVs.

We can all complain about Trump's chest-pounding on tariffs, but Biden's largely unexplained 2024 100% (!) tariffs on Chinese EVs were even more restrictive and barely covered in the media. I'm genuinely curious about the quality and price of these BYDs and am concerned that we're functionally restricted from buying a normal consumer good from another country.

Meanwhile, Kei-car enthusiasts looking for a practical and safe pickup unencumbered by the massive bloat of modern US trucks are limited to 25-year-old imports.

(I personally own cars manufactured from primarily American parts both in Canada and Mexico, as well as an EV primarily from Belgium. I'm largely agnostic on global manufacturing, and I just legitimately don't get what is going on with US car tariffs and import policies, which seem restrictive and arbitrary regardless of left or right-wing US politics.)

Edit: Man, you people hate this comment and honestly I think it's straightforward and accurate.

Edit 2: This main post, which I didn't make, has been flagged despite being a reasonable post from a typical news outlet about manufacturing, technology and consumer products. Huh. What is up?

I've had a BYD for a month or so now, and the build quality is fantastic. It really feels very premium, and there are some design/UX choices that really surprised me (things like the car refusing to set the parking brake if you aren't wearing a seatbelt).

Overall, I am extremely happy about my purchase, especially at only $40k after subsidies.

> things like the car refusing to set the parking brake if you aren't wearing a seatbelt

This is confusing to me. Does the car prevent a safety feature (setting the parking brake) from working when one doesn’t wear the seatbelt? Or was that a typo intended to mean that it prevents releasing the parking brake (and allowing the car to move) when one doesn’t wear the seatbelt?

Yes, it prevents you from setting the parking brake if your seatbelt is off, as you shouldn't exit the car while it's still on. I'll double-check, as I might be mistaken, but it has lots of nice little behaviours that show that the manufacturer really thought about the edge cases.

> Yes, it prevents you from setting the parking brake if your seatbelt is off, as you shouldn't exit the car while it's still on.

This sentence is confusing but doesn't seem to make sense either way it can be read. What is the antecedent of "it's" in "while it's still on"? The parking brake or the seat belt?

Why should you not exit the car when the parking brake is set? Alternatively, how could you exit the car while your seat belt is still on?

The car, sorry. You're meant to turn it off before exiting. That said, I just tried it, and I was wrong, so it was some other thoughtful thing that I noticed. I remember thinking "that's really smart, it's so you can't exit the car while it's still on", but don't remember exactly what it was.

Not sure how exiting the car without turning it off can be prevented. Everything the car might do to prevent it seems like a serious safety problem.

Not letting you set the parking brake? That's also known as the emergency brake, you don't want to disable it while the car is moving.

Not letting you remove your seat belt? Obvious serious safety problem.

Not letting you open the door? Super obvious super serious safety problem.

The Biden 100% tariffs were precisely because the Asian cars are good. Without that they'd probably drive GM etc out of business. Biden was also very pro auto union and took a lot of money from them. He didn't invite Tesla to US ev meetings in spite of them being the largest US ev maker because they are non union.

"It's really bizarre, the American animus towards Asian cars."

Based on the evidence, there is no American animus towards Asian cars.

Toyota, Honda, Kia, Hyundai--heck, even Nissan--all sell well in the USA and have for decades.

It is not animus that drives American policy on any foreign car, it is fear. Toyota broke the American Big 3 back in the '70s, and BYD would destroy whatever hope there was for an American EV industry.

Toyota, Honda, Kia, Hyundai and even Nissan have North American manufacturing facilities.

The animus about those brands all lessened greatly once many of their cars were produced in North America.

There never, to the best of my knowledge, was any animus.

The only people who hated Datsun worked in Detroit

Pretty sure you can buy one it just will cost half a tesla with import duties, and you are on your own for maintenance, and the logistics on getting it here.

I think most people understand "You cannot buy X in Y" to mean it isn't available from stores in Y, not that it's physically impossible to get X into Y by any means.

I wonder how BYDs numbers would look like if they weren't effectively banned in the US just to protect Tesla. I guess the grand experiment of global markets and free trade died with a whimper.

I understand the right amount of money can buy any commercial item. But vehicles are licensed and insured—Can i register the vehicle? Will I have a pink slip? Can I insure the vehicle? Or Will driving it results in police impound?

Exactly, you will not be able to register it in the US and completely import it because as there is no market here, BYD has not gone through safety and compliance testing in the US. For such cars, legally importing it would require you to buy it as an antique over 25 years later, or for you to pay for your own crash testing among other things.

The "easiest" way to drive a BYD legally in the US would be to have foreign residency, register the car in that country, and temporarily visit the US with the car, still using the foreign license plate and registration. This is why the Texas Mexico border in the US sees a few BYD cars, from Mexican residents and dual citizens visiting or living part-time in the US.

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