My TV started playing a video in full screen by itself. What happened? | Hacker News Reader

My TV started playing a video in full screen by itself. What happened?

support.vizio.com

374 pointsdecimalenough252 comments

I seem to recall that Vizio was added to my "do not buy" list quite a long time ago, when it turned out they were monitoring your watching habit (https://www.theverge.com/2017/2/7/14527360/vizio-smart-tv-tr...).

This seems to be more of the same I guess. Choice text from the link above:

Q: Why did I see an ad in Scenic Mode?

A: After Scenic Mode launches to full screen, you may see ads. We offer free, scenic content by supporting it with ads. These ads allow VIZIO to offer enhanced, built-in Smart TV features, 300+ live channels, and 15,000+ movies and shows at no cost through WatchFree+ while also helping keep the price of our TVs accessible and competitive.

Q: Can I turn Scenic Mode ads off?

A: No, not at this time. These ads allow VIZIO to offer enhanced, built-in Smart TV features, 300+ live channels, and 15,000+ movies and shows at no cost through WatchFree+ while also helping keep the price of our TVs accessible and competitive.

Sure seems like a "wonderful" company. Their Wikipedia page lists the personal data collection lawsuit and them also likely being GPL violators at that with a court date in September this year:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vizio#Legal_issues

All that plus they expect to run JavaScript on my computer to show any of this page content.

To addon to this they are also owned by WalMart

That's actually normal

I understand that.

I disagree that it should be normal.

JavaScript features are supposed to enhance a document that primarily communicates via text. The text should be readable, and not withheld, without it.

They're owned by Wal-Mart....so yeah. You get what you pay for.

It’s funny because I always remember the one time Vizio tried to become the Apple of PCs

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4123166

(the actual Verge link needs to have mobile. removed or changed to www.)

You can however turn scenic mode off which I would do immediately. That said, probably would never consider a Vizio tv.

Yeah, looks like all they’re saying is that you can’t use scenic mode without ads. They even promise it won’t turn itself back on after an update, which is a surprising yet refreshing thing to see.

> They even promise it won’t turn itself back on after an update

The cynic in me thinks that they've tried that and only after it backfired they created the promise (and they'll silently revoke their promise in the future)

I simply don’t believe such a promise. Maybe that’s their intention now, but such companies subsequently change their minds all the time, and so not seem to feel any obligation to uphold former “promises”.

They even have a habit of blatting miscellaneous user preferences in updates by accident just because they’re careless.

promises should come with contracts that they will pay you something like the median salary per year if they change their mind.

You could find their ad server and just do a rewrite in your router for that ip address.

Or.. just don't connect the TV to the frigging internet in the first place.

It’s tempting sometimes. I recently bought a 43 inch 4K unit for 99 dollars, to use as a monitor for an Apple TV unit. I’m pretty sure it must be heavily subsidized. … but if it’s not, and tech has gotten that cheap, that’s actually pretty awesome! I’ve been working on a project with a hardware element and it is impressive how cheap commodity stuff can be when you buy it on the reel.

It never got hooked to the internet, and it never will. Hopefully network over hdmi doesn’t become a thing lol.

I am paranoid about these things starting to…(oh, wait, there is a great y combinator-able business idea in there that will make life suck a little bit more, never mind)

The inevitable wave of enshitification is real. We need to learn to surf.

All TVs at home are blocked by MAC on the wifi router, so there's definitely a way to turn off this bullshit.

Out of curiosity, do you simply not use streaming services, or do you get them on the TV some other way?

I plug a mini PC into my TVs and use them that way. Works out better because the TV apps run way slower than even the cheapest mini PCs.

TV here - have 4 of them now, one for each TV, one for the portable projector, and one for music in the workshop.

Fabulous boxes - I’m still running a 4 generation old one and they just work.

Apple TV.

Why is it on the network at all if it’s blocked?

Streaming content on the LAN.

They’re not but they were in the past so who knows if they kept the password.

Probably better to put in a separate restricted vlan. Who knows, maybe one day some piece of firmware code will kick in to start rotating MACs to lie who the device is to get a connection.

Many Android TVs do this, including Hisense, and they try to mask it with dishonest verbiage about what the feature is doing. It's definitely not just a VIZIO thing.

The android ones are just pictures with no ads

I was unclear. I meant monitoring what you watch. Basically all of them do it. Samsung, LG, Sony, etc [1].

[1] https://www.zdnet.com/home-and-office/home-entertainment/how...

I believe a Roku does the same kind of TV fingerprinting, and probably so do the other streaming hardware devices. So, not sure there is any relief anywhere? You can run your own linux HPC, but those get locked to 720p quality.

Apple TV is pretty good and not very pricey. It’s a good value

Apple TV has to be one of my favorite purchases over the last five years. It just does what it says on the tin and gets the hell out of the way otherwise. I've bought three of them and disconnected all our tvs from wifi in favor of using these devices.

they are great little devices. Has its own tailscale app too and can be used as an exit node! useful for me as the TV is pretty close to the fiber box on the wall.

I struggle a bit with the remote control and UI in several apps

The remote control is definitely hit or miss. I don't have any trouble with it, but I swear my wife has ten thumbs when she's using it. She hates that thing.

Great device, if only they could make a decent remote. The older silver one was like a slippery soap in the palm, while the next (black) one was hopeless to figure which side was up or down.

My newer 4K controller started acting up recently and I had to ifixit.

Starting at $130 is kind of pricey. A Roku Ultra isn't as capable, but is $80, and a Roku Express 4K+ (no wired ethernet, no dolby atmos) is $30. Roku likes to snoop and push ads too, of course.

And how usable are they if you're outside of the Apple ecosystem (i think I saw an article recently that someone was stuck and needed to use a mac or an iPhone to get unstuck).

I haven’t had any issues with mine yet but I have lots of Apple devices so I am not the best to answer this question.

But, as far as Roku they are subsidized by selling your data and pushing ads as you call out above. Not really a fair comparison. Just like you have to pay more everywhere for the ad free tier you end up paying more for Apple TV.

I will say though that the Apple TV handles 4K flawlessly. I am willing to bet that it has quite a bit more power than any of roku’s offerings.

> You can run your own linux HPC, but those get locked to 720p quality.

That is demonstrably not true.

If you run Jellyfin and pirate using thepiratebay and yandex searches, you can get 4k 7.1 audio shows.

It's not the OS but the streamimg sites, like netflix and others are locked to 720p.

My point exactly.

Why would I pay to be abused and treated like a potential theif if I pay for services, but if I pirate I do get the best quality and experience?

If the company's paid experiences were top notch, I'd have stayed.

But it turns out 40TB, 20 cores, and an Intel Arc for high speed transcoding easily handles 200 shows, 3000 movies, and more. And the big upside? No more 'killed by Netflix' or trying to figure out what streaming platform has THIS show today.

Come on, they are obviously talking about streaming services. Everybody knows you can pirate anything at any quality.

The bigger problem with running on a PC is UI. No longer will it work well with a simple remote that only needs 10 buttons.

It's definitely less ergonomic but I successfully trained my extremely non-technical wife to use a VNC client on her phone to control the media center PC so she can watch streaming/youtube with an adblocking browser.

If you go to the trouble of setting up a media server and Kodi/Plex on the TV, and install a barebones launcher that avoids all the ads on the official launcher, the remote still works well. I don't know whether to blame Sony or Google but every system update brought bigger and bigger ads to the point that I took an afternoon off to sideload an extremely plain ad-free launcher.

I had a media center PC that was usable with a remote control in 2008.

Choke full of XVID cams, I bet

There's a reason their TVs are basically free.

I will leave them to those interested in trading their attention in lieu of money.

To be honest, this is part of why TVs can be offered for so cheap these days. Same reason really cheap phones are stuffed with bloatware.

Luckily with TVs you can freeload: just never connect it to the internet and only apply updates via USB. Stick an Apple TV / Chromecast / console into it for playback. This might even become standard operating procedure considering Samsung is getting into the ad game, and LG and Sony likely to follow.

Or take the back off and remove the WiFi module

Or just don't give it your Wifi password...

I recall reading a few years back about some crapware that opportunistically would attempt connecting through any available AP (e.g. your neighbor) and smuggle data that way.

The rumor was not only that, but also peering through neighbors devices from the same company.

I recall the same, and that there was evidence. Anyone bother digging up a source?

What nearby available AP could possibly have open access in 2025?

For real, I haven't seen an "Open" Wifi network that wasn't a Coffee shop or Airport in over 10 years.

Yes, it's insidious and evil, but I'd argue the attack surface is almost nonexistent in 2025.

I don’t know how much longer that will be possible with how cheap 5G is getting. Sooner or later they’ll be able to install a $10 part and make a deal with wireless carriers as backhaul for unconnected TVs. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone has already made a deal with Spectrum or XFinity to use those open wifi networks that are open to customers via their account signin.

The best solution is commercial displays but those can be quite a bit more expensive and hard to pick out.

> I wouldn’t be surprised if someone has already made a deal with Spectrum or XFinity to use those open wifi networks that are open to customers via their account signin.

I’m skeptical an arrangement like this could work. The authentication mechanism would be interesting enough to attract security researchers and likely open anonymous Internet access that may undermine any potential benefit gained from viewer data. I could be wrong but I hope not.

Definitely a risk.

I knew a guy who basically got internet access at his apartment in college via his local DOT. The message signs on the boulevard he worked on were just cellular mifi units with open or default credentials. Not super fast, but the price was right.

Tangental story about free Internet.

I once got a few years of free broadband Internet because I signed up for broadband plus basic cable, but they never put broadband on my bill. They came and did the installation and everything. Then when it eventually shut off, I called them back to complain and they said they had no record of me being a broadband customer, so I was able to sign up for the lower new customer rate.

At the same time, my TV had a built in digital tuner that could tune into the on-demand streams of other people in my neighborhood. I could watch as the paused/rewind/etc. The watching trends were interesting. Late nights you'd see soft-core adult movies, Saturday mornings you'd see lots of kid's shows.

> The message signs on the boulevard he worked on were just cellular mifi units with open or default credentials. Not super fast, but the price was right.

That's more clever than my reuse story. I repurposed an outdoor AP into a client bridge and pointed at the nearby walmart. I had it feeding an unlocked AP and a yagi pointing into the neighborhood.

I ran it for a year without getting my door kicked in.

There's already Amazon sidewalk and other IoT networks where they can dump data if any neighbor or passerby has a connected device.

> I don’t know how much longer that will be possible with how cheap 5G is getting. Sooner or later they’ll be able to install a $10 part and make a deal with wireless carriers as backhaul for unconnected TVs.

I had a really snarky reply to this, about how I'd just crack it open and remove the sim card, warranty be damned. Then I realized that even sim cards are going away, that's all done in software on the latest phones (no doubt an option soon for everything). Sorta fucked, I wish you were wrong.

It's called eSIM and has been around for a while.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESIM

it has to have some kind of modem/antenna that you can cauterise.

But the TV functionality does not have to work if one does that? We should really have laws that makes it illegal to not function without connectivity.

correct. that's why I have an old and dumb projector instead of a TV.

This idea doesn't bother me at all. I won't buy any TV for which I cannot disable the 5G antenna with basic tools by following a simple procedure described on some website.

If said TV won't work without 5G connectivity, it goes on my "Do Not Buy" list.

Good for you? What if you won't be able to find any tv that works without cryptographically signed periodic online check-ins.

Sure we could all try to ignore the horrors of modern society and move to a cabin in the woods (and then get to know our local mailmen when we find out that even that isn't enough) but perhaps it would be better and take a stand now while we can.

Adding 5G today increases the BOM by 10$-30$ in volume production.

Keep in mind that the tv already has ethernet and wifi to ISP controlled networks. Basically almost every consumer ISP offer mandatory includes an ISP managed gateway, that can pre-certify your appliances or operate hidden ssid networks or "public" wifi access point to the ISP's network. So "smart" appliance operators only need deals with a few big ISPs to get this reach, no 5G required.

With less than a dozens deals you would cover most of the US and EU.

> Basically almost every consumer ISP offer mandatory includes an ISP managed gateway

Is that really true? I never thought Internet subscriptions would require use of ISP's own device. I for sure have been using my own DSL modem/router/wlan device for my own connections (EU).

East Coast US here, I can bring my own cable modem with any cable ISP I have had in the past 10 years.

I imagine fiber is a different story.

Well, yes and no.

Providers are (I believe) required to let you bring your own equipment. Every DSL or cable service I've seen has allowed this.

However, it is also required that the modem you plug into the network accepts and runs firmware provided solely by the network operator. They can update your device at any time and there's nothing you can do about it.

So yeah, you can run your own hardware if you want, but the ISP will run their software on it whether you like it or not.

Definitely not the case. How would the firmware even end up in the device, which protocol delivers it? And which ISP would have the expertise to patch a collection of random devices in the network?

See TR-069

Thanks for the pointer, today is another day when I'm learning something new.

I fathom with 5G RedCap you can drive a low cost BOM and pair it with a "reduced capacity" yet still fairly moderate speed (up to 100mbps) 5G service.

Market the 5G as "always connected" to the customer. Free 720p streaming, a "plus" OTT platform that costs $10/mo that gives 1080p streaming over cellular (and 4K on traditional internet - advertise the 5g as a backup in this case).

Ads sold at an upcharge to the advertiser to reach the "always targetable" smart TV. Hit 'em hard with the ads to pay it.

https://www.t-mobile.com/news/devices/tcl-and-t-mobile-launc...

T-Mo's already running RedCap in the states, so it's a matter of time...

If they added 5G I'd buy one, just for the free service. Old Amazon kindles came with SIM cards you could put in your phone for free data service.

> To be honest, this is part of why TVs can be offered for so cheap these days

I spent $3,000 on a Samsung Smart TV -- and all I got were ads and unwanted content - https://www.zdnet.com/home-and-office/home-entertainment/i-s...

It'll be a cold day in hell when I believe corporate lies that they're doing all of this for my benefit. Especially when they neither clearly disclose all the ads and spying before purchase, nor offer an option without it at any price.

Also when they add these "features" to TVs that were purchased without them.

Like how would it be received if the builder of your house could come in and put up ad murals on your walls without asking? Would we accept "it subsidizes costs" as an answer?

If I were in real estate, I’d be grateful for this idea right now.

I bought a Philips many years ago, and it was perfect until an update suddenly gave me a lot of crap (ads) on the home screen.

Ironically they also provided a button where I could "adjust what you see on the home screen", but it turned out I could only add more crap. Not take anything away.

It's annoying, because it is not the same product I bought. It's worse.

Allowing consumer devices to connect to the internet does users more harm than good these days.

No it’s not. The cost dropped because new tech became cheaper over time.

(4 years ago) I guessed that Amazon was going to sell access to its Sidewalk network to tv manufacturers: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27358758

If they do that, they’re not going to be very upfront about it.

don't buy Chromecast, updates/resets will brick them.

> Luckily with TVs you can freeload: just never connect it to the internet and only apply updates via USB. Stick an Apple TV / Chromecast / console into it for playback

With things like Amazon sidewalk, Samsung smartthings network, etc. it can still get data out

Wouldn't the data be a lot less useful to them? Instead of 'customer watched X show for Y minutes' it'd be 'customer X watched Y minutes of unknown on HDMI1'.

There's ways to fingerprint the content.

A low res, low quality jpeg once a minute or N seconds into a scene transition is quite small. I think audio fingerprinting can be effective and very low bandwidth as well.

As edge AI gets better they will be able to send smaller textual descriptions of the screen content.

Something like color histogram data is probably enough for fingerprinting known content.

I think it’s only a matter of time until TVs refusing to work without internet or randomly interrupting your watching experience to ask you to connect to the internet. Heck, they can even learn from Microsoft now and demand a Vizio account, iPhone apps, etc.

Additionally they could start producing them without HDMI or other ports to prevent Apple TV or other similar devices from connecting.

What I’m trying to say is that corporate greed is limitless and the only thing that can prevent abuse will be strict regulations at the end of day.

I hate this as much as you, but don't agree regulation is the only solution. In part because it tends to get things wrong, skew markets, favour incumbents and ultimately retard innovation by startup efforts like mine.

When a company treats its customers like crap, that opens an opportunity for someone else to come along and do better.

Corporations are copying each other's bad habits right now, the kind of behavior you've described is a trend and the ones partaking in this race to the bottom will fail. I'm looking forward to a "revolution" when one rediscovers there's actually a market for quality consumer electronics that treat you decently and are a joy to use (think Apple's earlier iPhone models, auto manufacturers going back to knobs and buttons, etc) and might pursue this myself if nobody else does.

To be clear, I'm not opposed to legislation enforcing some basic, much-needed principles (like privacy preservation, requiring opt-in consent, attaching more liability to collected user data even to the point of establishing fiduciary-like duty on the sensitive stuff, stricter transparency and better user controls promoting consumer choice). I just think you need to be careful about getting too prescriptive on the "how".

> when it turned out they were monitoring your watching habit

I think every single smart tv manufacturer does this today.

At least I know LG, Samsung, Sony, Amazon, Philips, Sharp and Vizio does.

Since your smart TV is on your same domestic IP, there's a market for getting data on your watching habits to combine with your browser habits collected elsewhere.

The advertisers know more about you by now than you do.

That's why AppleTV is the best option for the moment.

AppleTV is full of ads in its app store, is there any streaming device where it doesn't track you and doesn't put ads over your search intent?

Sure, one you install your own OS on.

Comparing full screen ads on systems like smart TVs with the ads you get on Apple TV seems like a long shot.

The time you spend installing apps is minuscule compared to using them. And after that it is Netflix or google tracking you. Not Apple.

Bonus points: users are reporting that the ads it starts playing include political nonsense.

"I left the tv idle while I went to the other room to play with my dog. After about a half an hour, I started hearing Kristi Noem praising Trump and telling immigrants to get out of America, over and over.

I went in to check, and caught this video looping 3 more times before it went back to the nature clips."

https://old.reddit.com/r/ABoringDystopia/comments/1jkwcbx/if...

We need a FairTV, like Fairphone etc.

And possibly why this got posted:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ABoringDystopia/comments/1jkwcbx/if...

God that’s another level of dystopian. Not just ads but political propaganda.

Literally 1984, in that it's functionally recreating the Two-Minute Hate.

Those are probably part of this ad campaign: https://news4sanantonio.com/news/local/kristi-noem-announces...

Those idle tv moments are probably bought as an ad slot

I used to feel bad for South Dakotans. Now I feel bad for all of us.

I feel like ads are taking over everything. I fear the world will soon resemble Minority Report.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bXJ_obaiYQ

Soon?

Sure, we don't have billboards that scan the biometrics of whoever's walking past in order to deliver customized ads, but instead we have conditioned everyone to glue themselves to their own personal miniaturized billboards.

Actually, wasn't one of the selling points of those freezer/fridge door screens that CVS or Walgreens had that they could show personalized ads based on the person standing in front of them?

Whenever you see them, just hold the door open while you look. The store needs to see the electricity spike and they'll get rid of them.

We have had close so I count that as yes. About 10 or so years ago there were demos of a pi and webcam driving a smart ad display that monitors anyone walking by - gives them a unique id, guesses age sex and mood (at least) and if they look at the ad monitors for mood change and duration of attention.

Google via ASOP didn't set up wifi and Bluetooth randomization to help you remain anonymous as you walk down the street.

Instead they do so, so that they'd be the broker for that info. It's trivial to get that static info via apps, build a database, and setup scanners.

However Google has all randomized identifiers, and can link you to the same for the right price. I wonder how much they make on this front.

Knowing Google it's probably just stats, eg age, income, schooling, upcoming and past purchases, etc.

It's only a matter of time: https://www.axios.com/2022/06/30/facial-recognition-airport-...

"Detroit Metropolitan Airport is now home to a first-of-its-kind departure board that uses facial recognition tech to show travelers customized info about their flight."

Or "My Flamboyant Grandson": https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2002/01/28/my-flamboyant-...

I wonder if there is any point where this just doesn’t pay anymore? Like, ads can’t be an infinite source of money right? I have no idea of the economy behind ads but could it be that these people could somehow be convinced that ads are a waste of money?

This is too funny not to be true

If you have a "smart" TV you'd like to avoid connecting to the internet for reasons like this, you can try disconnecting the wireless module entirely. I had a Sony Bravia TV I didn't trust, and after popping off the back I disconnected the wireless module's ribbon cable. The android-TV OS handled it gracefully, and now I don't have to worry about it attempting to smuggle data through any other WLANs in my apartment building.

I have an 6 yo LG OLED and bought a Xbox series x on release. I've had the firmware update disabled too, because I couldn't think of a reason why I would want it to update. I'm not using it as a smart device after all.

Well, when I got the Xbox, it worked. But a few months after, it wouldn't receive any signal on my TV. After some googling, it turned out that the Xbox had a firmware update which now made them incompatible. Incompatible, yes. HDMI. And incompatible.

So I updated the firmware on the TV for the first time and it worked again. A few months later, the same happened again and I was forced to update another time.

So, just as a cautionary message: if your TV has appliances which need to be updated connected to it they might become unusable/essentially bricked if you decide to do that.

I wonder if the incompatibility was due to something like HDCP, and needing new keys or something similar. The Xbox is fairly strict on enforcing DRM, and that might be why it wouldn't output to the TV after a while.

I recall that when I was doing console gamedev stuff, some monitors would not work if you set the console devkits into 'retail' mode, especially some of the old cheap LCDs that IT had stashed away to use as temporary loaners if someone's monitor was broken.

I avoided firmware updates on my Samsung TV and removed as many built-in apps as possible. It used to start in quiet mode looking for a source. Then my renter updated the firmware because of a popup. Now I’m forced to start one of the commercial flow tv channels. Somehow I’m allowed to play the same episode of Baywatch, progressing 10-15 seconds before I start whatever app I actually want to use. David Hasselhoff hasn’t left the beach yet.

This is because some idiot introduced KPIs like “minutes streamed”. Can’t you just be a dumb device?

I imagine that in ten years, every electric appliance is infested with chatbot-level sentience and constantly wants to engage in conversation. EU will introduce laws that force electronics to STFU.

You can remove Samsung TV Plus by long pressing on the icon on the Home Screen > remove > disable. Your TV will go back to its old behavior.

> Then my renter updated the firmware because of a popup.

And this is why all of those people who say "just don't connect it to the Internet" are wrong.

You can decide not to connect, but are you going to tell every single guest not to, and have them think you're a crazy person because they don't understand the problem?

For those that say, I just won't tell them the WiFi password. I have news for you: many phones have hotspot and data plans where streaming to the TV won't be an issue.

I connect my TV because the remote doesn't have a button for changing brightness, but there's a PC app for that

TVs should have brightness controls the same way they have volume controls on remotes. It’s great having a >1000 nits display, just like it’s great having a 500W subwoofer, but it doesn’t mean I want to blast it full power all the time and changing it shouldn’t require digging into slow menus.

What’s the PC app please?

My dad's old Sanyo from early 90's did have brightness control buttons.

https://github.com/JPersson77/LGTVCompanion

I have a few extra buttons on my gayming keyboard that I pretty much never use, so I assigned three of them to a script that uses the above app to change brightness between 30/50/100.

Thanks!

You can turn it off. This is just a poorly worded FAQ.

At the beginning, there is an FAQ that says you can't turn off ads in scenic mode.

  Q: Can I turn Scenic Mode ads off?
  A: No, not at this time...

But in fact you can turn the Scenic mode off completely, but it buried later in the content of an FAQ about settings.

  Q: Can I change any settings for Scenic Mode?
  A: Yes. To use Scenic Mode with or without volume, navigate to the left side menu on the VIZIO Home screen, click Settings > Extras > Home Page Settings > Scenic Mode. Once you’re in the Scenic Mode section of Settings, scroll down and select either Volume On or Volume Off. You will see a checkmark appear, noting that you’ve correctly selected your setting. If you want to turn off Scenic Mode completely, follow the same instructions to get to the Scenic Mode section of Settings and select Disable.

"Poorly worded" makes it sound like incompetence. This was deceptively worded.

Maybe it is. Maybe it's not.

I prefer to state facts and leave interpretations to others.

When someone writes something that they know is not true, it's called being deceptive.

Vizio wrote this:

>Q: Can I turn Scenic Mode ads off? A: No, not at this time.

Why would they want to make it seem like they are forcing you to watch ads? They tell you in other sections you can turn the functionality off, they aren't hiding it.

I don't get why they would try to make themselves sound worse than they are.

>Why would they want to make it seem like they are forcing you to watch ads?

Defaults are powerful. They want people to believe that's just how their TV works now, because it's a hassle to buy a new TV.

So people think they can't turn it off and then don't

They have a direct financial incentive to prevent you from turning off ads.

That's it, that's the entire story.

Sounds like a job for Pi-hole.

pi-hole doesn't prevent dns over http, direct connections to dns servers or hardcoded ip addresses

I read it as you can turn off Scenic Mode, but you can't turn off ads when Scenic Mode is on. It is poorly worded.

I refuse to buy any “smart tv”. If that means going without a TV, then I’m going without one and will use the largest monitor I can use with a small beelink Linux box.

We’re prey for their bottom line as they can’t sell TV’s for a profit without running ads all over it. I’m done. I’m out. Back to books, vinyl, fresh press, gnu, board games, and going outside.

We bought a projector. Would definitely recommend this if you have a wall that works for it. No unsettling frame smoothing, a minute or two warm up that adds just enough friction and no smart functions or ads.

I have too much light but otherwise, great suggestion. Short throw laser projectors are the brightest I have seen but even they get washed out in this Florida sun.

I second this. Great for movie parties and sporting events. I got a reasonable quality one as surplus from a high-school IT department on fb marketplace.

I’m pretty sure you can buy “industrial” TVs from standard vendors which might fit the bill for you. They’re much pricier though, if I’m remembering correctly.

I once priced a generic panel from B&H and it wasn't very much more than paying for a smart TV with nearly the same specs.

That's why I don't buy the "but ads make it cheaper" lie.

The ads _do_ make it cheaper though. Just not for the consumer.

No need to go digital signage: LG 48GQ900 is a 48" 120Hz 4K OLED monitor.

Sheesh that’s a bit nutty!

It's technically still "smart" in the sense that it can be connected to the internet, but the samsung digital signage TVs don't have weird shit or ads.

Why not buy a smart TV and don't connect it to wifi?

You still reward the company and there's a chance you'll resell it to someone in the future, who will not understand the dark patterns. If you really disagree with the approach, just don't touch them at all.

After a house guest decided to accept the EULA and connect my smart tv to the internet it took me years to figure out how to get it to function without being connected to the internet.

Some smart TV don't enable all features until you've connected them once and done a firmware update. And I don't even mean smart features, sometimes it's things like HDMI input formats.

Of course you could just do the one update and then unplug it.

Smart TVs are slower to do things like turn on

That depends on the TV. I have 3 smart TVs from different manufacturers that have never been online. They all turn on as fast as my dumb computer monitors.

That's because they are already on with just the display turned off. Unplug it for 10 seconds then plug it in and try turning it on.

As noted in another reply, some smart TVs require an initial internet connection. I suspect we'll see more and more of them also refuse to work without a persistent connection. After all, if you're already just using streaming apps on the TV, then you're probably also connected to the internet, so the whole 'no TV without internet' thing won't bother most consumers.

And even if you don't connect it to your wifi, do you trust that everyone who uses your TV will remember to not do that?

There's also speculation that some manufacturers were looking into ways to piggyback ads and tracking onto public Wifi. For example, if you're in the US and you're near anyone who has Xfinity/Comcast service and haven't disabled the open hotspot, if that is even possible nowadays, there's a possibility that the TV might try to connect to the open hotspot. I don't know what the state of this is, but it's not that far-fetched that smart TVs could do that.

For the latter problem, you could potentially open up the TV, disconnect the wifi module if it's discrete, but then you're hoping that it is discrete, and that the TV will still function without that module.

I wonder if smart TVs are even profitable if you buy them but then prevent them from ever placing a single ad...

Sadly people keep buying these types of devices. Every time I walk by modern devices all I can think is how I wish I could buy them without the fear of what they will do once I turn them on. I don't want a new car because of the spying it does. I don't want a new TV because of the spying and advertising it does. I don't want any part of the current crop of smart speakers because of the spying/advertising they do. The problem is I will eventually have to buy some of this junk as my old stuff slowly breaks. If I am forced to buy something spying on me because there is no alternative, is it illegal to poison the data sent back in some way? Is it time to go on the offensive?

There are workarounds for a lot of those things, though, and some of them work out to be pretty cheap in the long run. You will have to get used to using older equipment in a lot of cases and doing some of your own maintenance.

It's because these devices are the only ones being sold.

I've said it here before, but I wish a consumer focused org would create a 'DUMB' certification. "Don't Upload My Bits"

This is truly dystopian.

Also this sad excuse for an FAQ:

Q: Is payment required to receive Scenic Mode? A: No. Scenic Mode does not require payment and is part of VIZIO’s mission to continually make your Smart TV better than when you bought it.

Smart TVs are really and truly awful.

That answer is a laugh. I quite liked my Vizio when I bought it. After a few updates, I vowed never to buy Vizio again and to recommend against them to anyone who asked.

Now, it constantly nags me to buy a new remote, aggressively changes to an ad screen the moment you disconnect an input, and runs more slowly than before. Great job, Vizio!

It's like getting an unending dystopian sci-fi series, free with your TV. Guaranteed to be renewed every season. No risk of writers' strikes, cancellation, or preemption by sporting events.

"Scenic Mode does not require payment and is part of our mission to continually make your Smart TV better than when you bought it."

That'll teach me to buy a TV from Lumon Industries...

When my very nice Sony Bravia vintage dumb-TV did something like this last year, it was due to a streaming service running on my PS5, which service I canceled, with extreme prejudice.

(Right now, the ad-free Netflix that I pay for is testing limits sometimes, of how much they try to control my experience for their own whims, but it's tolerable, and there's potential obnoxious things that they tastefully haven't done.) (Though they did briefly give me two creepy categories, for about a day, but then maybe someone realized their mistake, or got the Netflix fired-fast.)

Unless there is massive push back from consumers and people outright refuse to buy these TVs Vizio wont be the last company to do this. Roku also pushes less intrusive ads at you when the TV is idle depending on your settings.

As much as I complain a lot about roku for their spying and ads (they deserve it and I'll never buy one) I do give them some credit for not filling that fish show they have with ads. I know people who have had those fish (or some version of them) on their screens for many years and it's a decent little virtual fish tank.

The good news: large-panel TV sets are inexpensive for their performance.

The bad news: like many modern products, and as freely confessed in the linked article, you don't own the TV, it owns you.

The remedy: Connect the TV to your computer as a dumb monitor -- make it show only content you directly control. And disable the TV's network connection -- without that connection, it can't show ads.

My large-panel TV serves only as a computer monitor. My Linux computer runs the Brave browser and has a frequently updated ad-block list in /etc/hosts. This means no "Scenic Mode" ads and no YouTube corporate ads, only ads embedded by video content creators, which I skip over with a pointing device because the video is being controlled by a browser, not a TV.

The FBI recommends use of ad blockers to guard against fraud and malware (https://www.pcmag.com/news/fbi-recommends-installing-an-ad-b...). On the other hand, some sites refuse to function if an ad blocker is in use. Those sites don't deserve access to my eyeballs.

If all this fails, I pick up a book. Books don't have ads ... so far.

> This means no "Scenic Mode" ads and no YouTube corporate ads, only ads embedded by video content creators, which I skip over with a pointing device because the video is being controlled by a browser, not a TV.

You skip over the ones that are obvious, but not the ones that are more stealthily integrated into the content. IMO if a video creator sells out and adds sponsored content of any kind they are no longer to be trusted to not be manipulative in other ways.

This is a YouTube version of the well-established principle that consumers, while being trained to buy specific products, are also being trained ... to buy products, to expect consumer goods to solve existential dilemmas. And I agree, it's true -- deplorable and true.

This is why I haven't connected my smart TV to my WiFi. It just has a Google TV + HDMI from my PC. At least with Google TV, the only ads I see are random sportsball ads when YouTube has some partnership deal and those are easy enough to ignore.

I hope you never have a guest that connects it when you're not aware.

- this scenic mode isn't an essential feature and can be turned off

- TVs are cheaper here in the US than they are in China (or at least they were when I lived in China), and these revenue opportunities are likely the reason

The FAQ says you can't but apparently that's wrong (or intentionally deceptive?). Someone posted instructions below.

The FAQ says you can't turn the ads off in scenic mode. The same FAQ says you can turn scenic mode off.

Just reading it wrong. You can't turn off ads in scenic mode, but you can turn off scenic mode.

Vizio kind of has a lot of dark pattern messaging. As an example, they make it seem like you HAVE to enable the microphone on the remote or install an app to change the TV volume. They don't provide a diagram of the remote, so if you don't notice the volume rocker on the side, it seems like you only have two rather invasive options.

Another example is they use wording that makes it seem like you can't use the TV if you don't agree to the terms, but if you do select the disagree button (and after confirming you really want to disagree lol), it just reverts to a dumb TV.

He's not reading it wrong, it's intentionally written to be read that way.

This is remarkably dystopian. ‘Bought our tv? We are going to show you ads and you can’t even turn it off’

It sounds like you can turn the feature off entirely, which seems semi reasonable — the ads support the updated scenic content, and you can opt out. but i’d bet it shows ads in other places too.

> the ads support the updated scenic content,

Ha, that's a good one!

Gotta have regular updates to my videos of forests, waterfalls, lapping waves and crackling log fires. You never know when they're going to launch a new version of trees.

And we'll pretend it's Christmas day in my atomic garden

And as they say in the FAQ,

> Q: My TV started playing a video in full screen by itself. What happened? A: Your TV launched Scenic Mode, a FREE, new feature that displays relaxing, ambient content when your TV is idle for a period of time. Scenic Mode delivers an experience that adds to the environment of your home or office.

It's relaxing, so you need to RELAX rather than getting in a huff over blaring ads. What, you're not relaxed and going to pull the plug?

Just don't connect it to the internet and use an Apple TV instead.

Just don't buy an Android TV box. My ancient, very dumb, and totally wonderful Chromecast died, and I had to replace it with a Chromecast TV device. It's turned my TV into a 24-hour a day ad faucet. Transformed from a device that does remote Chromecasting very very well, to a insufficiently provisioned Android TV box that crashes and locks up frequenly when you are doing remote chromecasting. :-(

Just change the launcher. Android TV is the only platform that can block YouTube ads and supports Sponsor block

Huh. Thanks for that. I naively assumed that Google would lock down the launcher. I have emerged from darkness into light.

The difference between an Android TV launcher that's designed give people what they want, and the baroque monstrosity that results when Google tries to extract every fraction of a cent of advertising revenue that it can is startling. My TV just became an appliance that does exactly what I want, no less and no more, instead of a cacophony of distractions and diversions trying to convince me to do things I don't want to do.

That's exactly what we do. Works great.

I hope you never have a guest that connects it when you're not aware.

The smart TV part is not connected to anything, there is no ethernet cable to it, and the WIFI is not setup. The remote for the TV is in a drawer.

The Apple TV is the only thing connected, and it will auto turn the TV on/off by itself(thanks HDCP).

So I guess someone could go really far out of their way to make the Smart TV parts work again, it doesn't seem very likely.

We use Plex almost exclusively, it provides the Live TV.

I hope you never have a guest that connects it when you're not aware.

My TV occasionally turns on unexpectedly. I'm pretty sure it is the Xfinity Flex streaming box that is connected to it telling it to do so.

It used to happen between 3 and 4 am, if I remember correctly, and was very annoying because the TV is in the same room I sleep in.

I guessed that it might be the Flex box doing it after I remembered that the Flex box was scheduled do to automatic updates between 3 and 4 am. My guess was that sometimes when it reboots after an update it turned on the TV.

To check that I changed the update schedule to do them between 2 and 3 pm. Sure enough the unexpected turn ons then started happening between 2 and 3 pm which is pretty good evidence my guess about the Flex being responsible was right.

That's crazy of you to sacrifice your sleep enough nights to notice a pattern. The extent of my patience would be

1st night - disable CEC on the TV

2nd night - to hell with you, into the garbage it goes

I think there should be "pull out the cord" step somewhere

Smart plug, set a timer

And then what? Keep pulling the plug every evening? No thanks, might as well get a different non-defective setup.

You're way more patient than me.

If any of my devices turn on in the middle of the night, they get the business end of a 48" crowbar that weighs too damned much. They all saw what happened to the printer when it refused to print a black and white document without yellow ink. I think their fear will keep them in line.

Just remember that while you are watching the ad, the ad is watching you.

Actually anything you do on your internet connected Smart TV is being collected and sold by the TV manufacturer.

Smart TVs should be called Surveillance TVs at this point.

It's almost like the wall screen from 1984.

You can buy a "smart" TV with ads for cheap, and get a generic replacement motherboard to dumb it down.

Do you have a link or something that goes into how to do this?

http://web.archive.org/web/20190511065920/http://redlightgre... (original Russian page: https://mysku.club/blog/aliexpress/67872.html )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2YTL25iyHU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM8_kJENdoQ

There are plenty of other videos but the vast majority are not in English - they seem to be some Indian or Russian.

Very afraid we will get to the point where new TVs will refuse to boot and let you use external inputs unless they have network connection.

I’ll live with watching Plex on my phone before I buy a TV like that.

You mean on Apple's/Goole's/Samsung's phone that you're renting, right?

My favorite development is ads interrupted by ads.

This is most apparent when watching movie trailers.

When the second Youtube preroll ad cuts off the first one...

My favourite development in this regard is the lying timers on those ads. More than one streaming app I've caught resetting the overall timer on every ad. So it will say that there's 90s of ads, play through a 15s ad counting down to 75s, and as soon as the next ad plays, the timer resets to 90s again. Eventually after a few minutes of ads something must realize that it's actually been more than 90s, and just cuts off the current ad in the middle. Or even more fun is when it says you can skip in X seconds, but every ad it plays is Y seconds, where Y < X, and the skip timer resets with every ad. Looking at you Youtube.

I have noticed on some smaller ad delivery sites that they use fake seconds. The "seconds" are actually 1.5–2 seconds long. If anything can be made worse, let's do it!

Maybe that is the right kind of start up make it worse. Until we get a decent percentage of rage quits things can not improve.

I one time click an add because I was curious how the scam worked. First they wanted my name and phone number... when I typed the last digit of the phone number into the form my phone rang immediately. They even managed to confuse me for a moment.

Next level would be to use 10, 100 or 1000 phone lines (depending on budget) and call people when they haven't typed their entire number.

Quickly train the sales "person" llm on whatever public personal information can be found using their name ip/location, phone number, anything about their friends, relatives coworkers etc. Mimic the correct accent for the region.

Or howabout a question about the ad to check if they watched it properly. If they get it wrong it seems only fair to give them a new ad. Some question should not have a correct answer.

Or, how would you rate this advertisement? With each rating triggering an unique-seeming follow up question.

I regret giving my TV my Wi-Fi password. By default, it has some knock-off Alexa assistant that triggers a couple times a day, even when I'm sitting in silence.

It also warns me it will auto-updates the software 1-2 times a month. My TV was perfect out of the box--it doesn't need an update. When I disable Wi-Fi, I get notifications that my TV is disconnected. Can't win.

We have ours connected but block all traffic to internet.

Have a dedicated AP just for the tv and it has only LAN access to stream content through dlna or mirror phone screen using miracast.

Have you thought about using pi-hole? With the right things blocked, my LG TV still has all the functionality without the spying or annoyances.

OK, related, so I have to share, because it's driving some valley residents crazy.

It is currently the portable air conditioner season in Arizona. Home Depots now have them stocked in the front of the store.

All Wi-Fi enabled Toshiba models (which are white-label rebranded Midea units,) their overwhelming predominate stock, are susceptible to a bug where your unit can be remotely turned on or off randomly, without your input. Presumably mismatched accounts on their back-end.

Separately, but related, they also have universally paired remote controls, so your next door neighbor who also has a very popular Toshiba portable AC unit model can accidentally turn yours on and off without your input, and adjust your temperature any time, too. And you can accidentally do the same to them.

Oh, and their remote controls work across all unit models, so it doesn't matter if you have a window unit instead, either.

Whoops!

Never buy them.

Huh, surprising that portable air conditioners are popular in Arizona - I'd have expected them to be used mainly in climates that don't call for buildings to be equipped with air conditioning already.

Wasn't Vizio the company that sold a box letting you skip ads? What happened?

Walmart bought them specifically to be an ad serving platform.

https://corporate.walmart.com/news/2024/12/03/walmart-comple...

Thanks

Am I the only one here that read the part where you can absolutely disable this? I don't understand the performative outrage. The TV has an ad-supported screen saver, which they claim is used to support free streaming content. You can disable the screen saver entirely. No, you cannot just disable the ads but keep the screen saver. What is the problem?

Meanwhile half the posters here work for Google or other ad-surveillance purveyors. I watched a short YouTube video today with half a dozen unskippable ads. If you had a hand in normalizing this then you can't claim to be upset by it.

>What is the problem?

Consent. The user didn’t consent to the feature, and now is expected to opt-OUT

Unlikely. Every Smart TV I've used requires you to agree to a EULA before any "smart" features are available.

I’d be surprised if you could even use a smart TV at all without agreeing to an EULA.

The GDPR really got that part right - for consumer-business contracts there is no consent if it wasn't freely given.

Hey sorry I broke into your home and ate your food but hey it's ok if you ask me nicely I promise I won't do it again. Won't give up they key though. And might change my mind about that promise in the future. Wait what are you mad for?

This is why one should never, ever, allow their television to connect to the internet.

Feed it via HDMI from whatever device you choose, but DO NOT let the TV connect to the mothership...

Or, just accept the consequences...

"... a FREE, new feature ..."

Why are you complaining about this punch in the face? It's a FREE new punch in the face you ingrateful parasite!

https://www.reddit.com/r/ABoringDystopia/comments/1jkwcbx/if...

Unfortunately, I expect consumer-hostile behavior like this to become more common. The path that consumers take from intent-to-purchase to transaction will radically change over the next 5 years. It will result in less time shopping and better purchasing decisions for consumers, while diminishing the role of marketing/advertising. As that river runs dry, there will be desperate and intrusive attempts to monetize users like we’re seeing here from Vizio.

Motorola rolled out basically the same feature to my phone with its latest "security update".

They even went so far as to patch the Android System UI to send you notifications nagging you to enable their Taboola Lockscreen video ad things. So even if you uninstall the actual adware app, you still get nagged to use it.

Seems like this might perhaps just be the new-ish idea that got cooked up somewhere and now all suits are copying each other?

Speaking of Vizio, what happened to the SFC vs Vizio GPL violation case? Last time I checked : https://www.dlapiper.com/en/insights/publications/2024/01/sf...

Another user said they have a court date in September and posted this link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vizio#Legal_issues

So fun (when you don't have this shitty tv) to read this FAQ.

A wtf at each paragraph:

- question1: video starting alone to "provide you a relaxing experience". I'm totally so relaxed by that unexpected kind of things...

- question2: suddenly ads can show up in this video to be able to provide you a more relaxing experience. Sure sure, how relaxing to be force fed ads unsolicited on your own tv...

- question3: can I stop that? No you can't because we are forced to impose you these ads for your own good...

About 2 years ago we got a deal on a smallish Samsung for our nursery. The thing is haunted.

On more than a couple occasions in the middle of the night I've heard people talking. On working up the courage and getting out of bed I've found the TV tuned in my daughter's room to one of those Samsung Internet TV channels.

My wife and I never use those, so it's absolutely bizarre.

This genuinely seems like a Black Mirror episode from the core seasons.

It starts slowly playing anodyne ads that get progressively more and more accurate, eventually turning to prescient ads about the future--maybe an ad for a divorce you didn't see coming, an illness etc

The owner throws the TV out but then starts seeing other prescient ads in storefronts, kiosks...

Possibly voice activation trying to interpret baby noises as commands? If so there should be a setting to disable it.

As far as I am aware the only voice control requires a button press on the remote. Beyond that, our daughter sleeps in a pack-n-play in our bedroom.

Once Mi smart TV in holiday rental I stayed switched on itself on early morning playing TV channel at high volume, interestingly web search specifically has results for "Mi smart TV switching on at 5am". The TV also had internal microphone and physical switch to toggle the microphone. It was literally Chinese invigilation device.

Preroll ads when playing videos or streams are normal. If you don't want to see them then don't use streaming services that do so. In this case it's the WatchFree+ streaming service.

Scenic mode is an optional feature that will open up a WatchFree+ channel from the Mood and Ambience category when the TV is idling.

One super annoying issue I've found is that if you enable Smartthings on Samsung TVs, and you try to use your phone app as a remote, they ask for microphone access EVERY TIME I USE THE APP. The options are "Enable" and "Cancel". I click cancel, the remote works for 3 minutes, then stops working and I have to force restart the app and do it again. All for a feature I use if I can't find my physical remote.

Seriously. I hate these companies with a passion. It's crazy that right now the only alternative is to not use smart features / wifi. There's not even a good Android TV option. The best I can do is just run VLC on a computer connected to the screen (Kodi has an awful UI/UX, in my opinion). Plex used to be good before they became awful. AppleTV is the only semi-decent device, but it requires a iCloud login.

Great. Another company to avoid and I'm going to spread the news to every friend and every colleague and every Internet forum. I'll just them frankly that Vizio steals and sells users' data -- maybe not 100% true but whatever.

I'm super grateful for the webOS Homebrew[1] community for allowing me to wrangle control of my LG TV and giving unfettered root access to the device.

[1] http://webosbrew.org

This is why all of my TVs are airgapped. I don’t understand why some people don’t just get an Apple TV or similar and keep their TV completely ignorant of the LAN and internet.

I'm not sure there are a lot of similars left, now that Android TV has become an ad faucet.

At least they have an FAQ about it... not that I endorse ads baked into your TV

Reminds me of, "You are not using a product, you are the product"

>> We offer free, scenic content by supporting it with ads.

Sheesh

Before anyone asks, you can buy a TV that’s dumb. Look on Sony or Samsung or business kiosk TVs. I bought some Sony kiosk TVs for conference rooms when building out an office ones. They can be left on forever have the same great quality and cost a little bit more. But they’re dumb in the end and they turn on fast.

Sony and Samsung were the two TV manufacturers that first introduced this technology of automatic content recognition to my knowledge.

Iirc, in the earlier days of LCD tvs, the ones meant for digital signage sometimes had different color calibration, and also sometimes had weaker processors than their consumer bretheren because they weren't really meant to display high-framerate motion content, and were mainly used for static images. A friend's dad picked up a few for cheap when their employer was updating some of the ones they used for digital signage, and they struggled with some types of 1080P content, especially when the images were messy and rapidly changing (think close up tracking shot of a soccer game.)

Not sure how relevant that is today, but likely still something to watch out for especially if you're looking for a cheaper dumb TV. Also, if you're getting a used digital signage TV, if you can try to run through some basic color and motion video tests on it before you buy it; mostly to check for burn-in and backlight quality.

Also, are there decent OLED dumb TV options available yet? I rarely watch anything on my TV, so when I do it's generally something more 'special' and I rather like the gamut that OLEDs offer for those occasions.

Bet money on it being the garbage smooth frame stuff that pushed the TVs to fake 60 or 120fps by guessing frames. Even my newest 75" TV has this junk and makes the picture stutter enough that it drove me bonkers trying to turn it off - Google TV is awful for this but the TV also lets you fully turn it off on some ports.

This was a bit before that feature was really possible to implement cheaply enough to be in every tv. We're taking probably around 2003 or 2004 iirc.

Why so odd terminology for playing ad? Scenic more?

They keep pushing. We keep tolerating.

Every Tv in my home is paired with an Apple TV. I leave the display unconnected to the internet.

The day when TVs require an internet connection to show external inputs - that will be a sad day.

Or when they come with cellular modems.

But its `free`

Aren't all videos in full screen on a TV?

Ah, so now Vizio is taking pages out of the technology rapist playbook, too.

“You’re forced to take this and you can’t say no.”

Just add Vizio to your ... nope ... list.

"You may see an ad"

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