Dude, Where's My Job? | Hacker News Reader

Dude, Where's My Job?

blog.macleans.ca

37 pointsojbyrne50 comments

One of the comments was probably better than the actual article:

http://blog.macleans.ca/2009/01/14/dude-where%E2%80%99s-my-j...

I'm a 'late boomer' and teach high school CS to the so-called 'entitled.' I can say from personal experience that while there is indeed a percentage who follow that modus operandi, the truth is that the current crop of high schoolers work a lot harder at their studies than I ever did, have more pressure to perform well on standardized tests than ever before, face a future marbled with inordinate debt obligations from their undergraduate and graduate degrees, and see a marketplace unsure about where, or if, their skills matter.

This article sucks and the author should be ashamed of herself for not doing better research into this generation before writing them off as a bunch of incompetent brats. They are far from it.

This generation represents our future lady. Disparagement might keep you employed by selling magazines and newspapers to a dwindling audience but encouragement rebuilds nations and economies and provides hope to the billions yet to come.

These are great kids. We should celebrate them. They play by rules 'we' have set for them and as I have said, they work incredibly hard against all odds. It is my belief they will ultimately drive a worldwide entrepreneurial explosion unseen before. Not out of greed, as this article incorrectly infers about their parents, but out of pure necessity. In that regard, they are very much like their grandparents just after WWII and we all know what that generation accomplished for us.

Agreed. There must be something about the gravitational center of my eyeballs that causes them to roll upwards toward the ceiling whenever someone refers to this generation as 'entitled.'

Repeating something that has been said so many times that it has become popular wisdom is an easy way to fill word count.

My eyeballs involuntarily roll up just the same, but I think it's only because it's an erroneous generalization. Generation Y is starting to split in half, but I don't think anyone's really taking notice.

What split are you seeing? I'm very curious.

I've been noticing it for a while, but it became ever more evident to me when I read this (http://www.adbusters.org/magazine/79/hipster.html)

Namely, Gen Y is beginning to segment into those who'd rather keep up with the jonses and be immersed in culture (typically younger members of Gen Y), those who'd rather be more involved in social matters (the median), and those who are more focused on establishing their lives for the future as THE primary goal.

And the amazing thing is, it's incredibly migratory. The younger groups who follow MTV culture either phase out of it, and move into the second category, or cling to the pop lifestyle and migrate over into one of the other two, using pop as a blanket for wherever they go.

It makes little sense right now, I plan to research it rather fully this summer.

That is an interesting article. Supposedly I'm at the leading edge of the millenials, having been born in late 1982. But not a single person I know resembles these characters portrayed as hipsters.

On the other hand, I know quite a few civic-minded and tech-savvy peers who do give a damn.

I get the same feeling whenever someone tries to generalise a whole group of people, merely because they were born within a few years of each other.

I think the real interesting part of Gen Y is the amount of writing which is being devoted to us. Is Gen Y really that difficult to understand or so unbelievable? Does it deserve all this writing and attempts to dissect it?

What's really interesting to me is how much criticism we're getting for wanting jobs that aren't a repeat of the workforce before us. Imagine if the Internet media was around when the generations shifted to cities and away from rural settings! Farmers crying out about the lost workforce from their children who went to work in the industrial revolution factories. Or maybe the outcry even further back when shepherds' kids decide to settle down and build a farm! Gasp Shock horror. Cats sleeping with dogs in the streets. Anarchy abounds. It is... simply put... the end of the world.

Gag. I'm just so tired of the Gen Y angle and BS that gets written about it.

So, what makes Gen Y the most entitled generation ever? I'd argue that title goes to the Baby Boomer generation (at least for the time being). They're the generation that decided that, while their parents paid for their education, kids should really pay for theirs (paying for zero educations in their lifetime while each other generation will pay for 1). They're the generation that has decided anything that costs money can be shuttled onto future generations through debt. They're the generation that paid too little in Social Security and Medicare taxes who are gearing up to fight for expanded benefits paid for by their children.

We'll see if Gen Y decides to be as entitled. Yeah, Baby Boomers get annoyed with Gen Y kids who think they know everything when they don't. Most people in my generation think they're a ton smarter than they actually are and think that minimal work should result in great reward. Maybe we're no better than the baby boomers, but I resent this implication that we think the world revolves around us. The baby boomer generation seems to like to forget that part of their success was that they were able to shift burdens onto others (often their children).

I guess I should apologize for how I started off this comment. It was too harsh. I got a little too aggravated by the article and being lectured down to by a generation whose greatest accomplishment was being born in the only industrialized nation not bombed out by WWII and, therefore, had the opportunity to create with barely any competition. OK, I'm still aggravated. I'm sorry.

Most people are hardworking folks and this author is trying to appeal to the few that are probably less hardworking and want to blame society on someone else. It happens all the time - it's those immigrants that are making your life suck and the like.

I think we'd all be better off if we remembered who we are really - not the idealized vision we have of ourselves. Baby Boomers went through a period of pot smoking and being lazy. Before them, dating was the hot button being seen as a waste of time and a disregard for morality. Let's all try to remember that life is a little more universal than this essay would have you believe.

lol! I remember being called all sorts of things in the 70s. But now it's my turn! Damn kids! Get off my lawn! The fun part is you'll get to do it to the next generation.

So, what makes Gen Y the most entitled generation ever? I'd argue that title goes to the Baby Boomer generation (at least for the time being).

I'd apply your criticism to the generation a half-generation younger than the Greatest Generation, namely the generation born during the birth dearth of the 1930s. (They are largely the parents of the Baby Boom.) The Baby Boom generation paid into the Social Security system to a greater degree than the birth dearth generation did, but will have a substantially higher retirement age.

The demographic facts are reported in reasonably good detail (but pointing to different issues) in Malcolm Gladwell's new book Outliers.

> the only industrialized nation not bombed out by WWII

Switzerland anyone?

Watches and chocolate does not make an industrialized nation.

;)

Australia. (If you don't count Pearl Harbour, then we wont count Darwin).

My generation is X, they called us lazy because back in the late 80s and early 90s the job market was the worst since... WW2? correct me if I'm wrong.

Crap job market = lazy generation.

And because the Y generation grew up during unprecedented economic growth they are the most entitled generation.

If we could bottle folksy wisdom, we'd have a lot of stupid in bottles.

I much prefer bottled alcohol, it helps us forget the stupid things people sometimes say.

Oh yeah, cause I just demand to have balloons and a cheap plaque for my first day on a job.... or, you know, maybe not? My gen is probably unreasonable (few people are in any gen methinks) but "they" clearly just don't get it at all.

How does one manage to take people born within a range of 14 years and make sweeping generalizations about them?

Grouping people into Gen This or Generation That is astrology for sociologists.

Google NYC had "afternoon tea"? What does that even mean?

I've heard rumor that there is a whole country that does this on some funny little island on the other side of the world.

Tea: a drink prepared by soaking leaves in hot water

Afternoon: a time after midday but before evening.

HTH!

So what you're saying is that Google has banned tea in the afternoons. You're right, that was helpful.

There is a social institution in some countries where tea is consumed in the afternoon and, importantly, this comes with a societal expectation that work stops during the consumption of tea. The societal expectation is similar to the expectation in the US that most professionals are not available for productive labor between 12:00 and 1:00 because they will be eating lunch.

Thus, when an American company says they're instituting afternoon tea-times, what they mean is they are adding a break to the workday which is not typically present in American companies. When an American company which previously had afternoon tea-time eliminates it, it means that the workers have lost a socially acceptable period in which they were not expected to labor.

Tea is forbidden at Google!? What has the world come to?

I wonder if "afternoon" is banned, too...

Same as it ever was. I narrowly miss the Gen Y cut-off, but was popular to bag on my generation's failings when we were first entering the workforce. Whatever.

(Aside: You don't even need a Kindle to spot this author's crutch words. Am I the only one who thought the repeated use of "cohort" was unusual? Dude, where's your thesaurus?)

The word "cohort" is a technical term in demographic studies, and the correct word for the article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cohort_(statistics)

Touché. That'll teach me to only read the first few definitions (http://dictionary.reference.com/dic?q=cohort)

I see it now, all the way down at number 5! Everything they said about my generation was true. :)

Here's an amusing coincidence. I was a student at JJ Hill Elementary school in St. Paul, MN in the late 80s. This was the gifted/talented magnet back then, I don't know if it still is. I see you're affiliated with Minnesota's gifted/talented educational program. Can I somehow blame you for my inability to read all the way to the fifth definition? :)

The Gifted and Talented magnet school in St. Paul now has the name Capitol Hill. I don't know if that is a successor school to the one you remember.

In general, I'm not sure how schools have been teaching reading in specific places in the relevant generations, but I would agree with the critics who say that reading could have been better taught than it usually was in school over the last few generations.

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Johnny-Cant-Read-about/dp/00609134...

http://www.amazon.com/Beginning-Read-Thinking-Learning-about...

http://www.amazon.com/Overcoming-Dyslexia-Complete-Science-B...

http://www.amazon.com/Early-Reading-Instruction-Science-Brad...

Best wishes in your continued efforts to add to your technical vocabulary. I learn new words fairly regularly here on HN.

The article sneers that "seven out of 10 rank themselves “above average” in academic ability."

This bias is not specific to Gen-Y: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Wobegon_effect

wtf is a generation anyway? I'm gen-Y but my sister who's 4 years older is gen-x? Basically these articles are corporate HR people bitching about people realizing that they've become disposable--the corporate/employee contract has dissolved--and responding accordingly.

I'm gen-Y but my sister who's 4 years older is gen-x?

They keep having kids at younger and younger ages....

So sick of crap like this. I'm Gen-X and very much remember being called whiny and entitled. We were neither -- no more than any 20-somethings have ever been.

Don't pay too much attention to the article - Macleans magazine's core demographic is primarily boomer. This is just a feel-good article for them.

[edit] Now that I think of it, this is terribly ironic. An article complaining about how Gen-Yers all want gold stars and reassurances that they're good... written for boomers who want gold stars and reassurances that they're good :)

I'm somewhere in between - 32 years old, I guess technically a Gen-Xer. People in a middle class society tend to have a (often false) sense of entitlement. I agree that it's not a generational thing. I think the biggest change that I've seen since I was in, say, grade school, is a move away from interest in the hard sciences and technical disciplines, which may very well lead to greater disillusionment among today's young job seekers in a tough job market.

well you know why that is. A) everybody young seems whiny and entitled to people slightly older, when they first enter the workforce B) generational differences were incredibly important forty years ago and bullshit artists can still build whole careers pontificating about them

Fail.

They graduated with the expectation that it was going to be a sellers’ market, that they were going to have multiple offers, step into an upper management role and have significant strategic impact on a Fortune 500 company, and that’s just not the reality.

What? The moderate expansion of 2004-07 has barely passed and already it's being romanticized and blown out of proportion. The OP is completely out of touch with reality.

Getting into an upper-management role out of college, and having significant impact on a Fortune 500 company, did not happen, except for extremely well-connected people. The median Ivy grad, much less median college grad, did not have that as an option, and no one expected it either.

In fact, the major reason the bulk of the talent went into finance was its reputation for having a faster career track. They would rather pay dues for 4 years working 70 hours per week than for 10 years working 50.

Being born in 1981, which according to wikipedia is the last year of Gen X, the following year, 1982, being the beginning of Gen Y, I consider myself more of a Gen X'er than a Gen Y'er. That said, just from the point of view of software, it is not fair I don't think to call Gen Y "entitled" because there is a lot more to know about technology than there was even 10 years ago. To keep up, people always need to be learning new things. So Gen Y has a burden unlike any previous generation of just the vast array of knowledge of different programming languages, etc. they need to be able to compete - a vast breadth of knowledge, if not depth. So it is really uncalled for to call Gen Y "entitled" as a whole group. Sure there are "spoiled brats" in every generation, but we cannot make these kinds of generalizations, especially in the technology sector. And even the whole notion of this article displays archaic thinking, regarding the job market, at least in technology. The whole "get a job" thing has been more replaced with "get a gig", i.e., people are more into independent contracting/consulting etc. than before, so Gen Y is not necessarily the same as Gen X in terms of trying to find a long-term employment, at least in technology. It is more a generation of independent consultants that is coming up. This article is wrong from top to bottom, wrong in calling Gen Y "entitled" and wrong to think that the ills of the job market are going to finally be all that damaging to them, since they are more independently minded than their predecessors. A response to this could be: What happens when deprecated purveyors of old technology get hit with web 2.0 and 3.0? The answer is they get replaced. By the same Gen Y they so despise.

What happens when deprecated purveyors of old technology get hit with web 2.0 and 3.0? The answer is they get replaced. By the same Gen Y they so despise.

That's not really true tho'. The skills of uploading a video to YouTube or making a website with PHP are insignificant compared to inventing TCP and wiring the entire planet with bandwidth. Could Gen Y bootstrap the Internet if it didn't already exist? That's an open question.

Every generation has its great engineering challenges. While you may have invented TCP and wired up the planet, Gen Y'ers are here inventing HSPA and wireless-ing up the planet. New technologies will always come along, and there will never be a shortage of difficult technologies to implement.

To think that because you guys started this whole internet thing means there's no difficult work left to do? That's absurd.

I have a feeling that most of the real engineering that happens today (including wireless as you said) are actually depending quite a lot on the generation before Gen-Y. Gen-Y can't take credit for much of anything really. The only exception is some of the "Web 2.0" stuff.

The same argument can be made for any other generation - the real engineering that happened back in the 70s for ARPANet was actually depending quite a lot on the generation before it (transistors, dielectric research, the ENIAC and computers that came long before them)...

My point still stands: every generation has incredibly difficult engineering challenges to overcome. Yes, it all builds on top of each generation, but there's no reason to denigrate the accomplishments of one generation or another.

Then why is Gen-Y all like, we have all these amazing Interweb sK1Lz that no-one else does? 'Cos I'm not seeing it.

Well, give them some time. They're not all even born yet, from what I hear.

That's kind of a bullshit question. Of course we could. We don't need to re-invent Internet protocols (beyond fixing the mistakes of the previous generation -- IPv4 and DNS flaws, anyone?) at this point though.

Right now, it's more profitable to build on the platform we grew up with than to think about reinventing it. Programming talent and intelligence haven't suddenly declined in my generation thanks to the Internet and PHP. There have always been crappy programmers -- they just use PHP instead of BASIC now.

That's my point. You can be all like "yeah, we're fixing the mistakes of the previous generation". Everyone has 20:20 hindsight. But there simply isn't the supporting evidence that Gen-Y has technical skills that Gen-X doesn't or can't get. Gen-Y massively underestimates how much work had to be done for them to take all this infrastructure for granted.

I think you're missing the point. I'm not saying we're more or less intelligent or capable than the last generation, nor am I blaming them for things like IPv4 (I mean really, it sure sounded like enough address).

We grew up with different tools, ideas and starting points though. To say we take the work of previous generations for granted is ridiculous. For one, it's a sweeping generalization. But what's more, it could be said about every other generation. The old saying about "standing on the shoulders of giants" rings true here. We're all building on the work of others.

Sure, there's nothing about your age that physically stops you from learning new tools or adapting to the world. If you can't adapt, it's your mindset that needs fixing.

Our world has been shaped from an early age by the Internet, and that will have profound effects on what we do with it from here on out.

This article made me want to throttle the author, and I don't even belong to gen y. Where's the bloody downvote button?!?!

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