The Real Story Behind Sam Altman’s Firing From OpenAI
wsj.com
wsj.com
- Sutskever and Murati compile evidence of Altman’s lies and manipulation to oust him.
- Sutskever emails the evidence to the board and suggests they act on it.
- The board fires Altman but refuses to explain why.
- Murati demands the board explain why.
- The board refuses, and Murati and Sutskever rebel against the board and petition with other employees to reinstate Altman.
It all makes no sense. And why wouldn’t the board just explain their decision if Murati herself was imploring them to do so?
> The board felt they couldn’t divulge that it had been Murati who had given them some of the most detailed evidence of Altman’s management failings.
Unclear whether she wanted it released internally or publicly, but this sounds like a demand to me.
Sutskever and Murati were methodical, they waited until the board was favorable to the outcome they wanted, engaged with board members individually laying the groundwork... and then just changed their mind when it actually happened!?
Panic is a less likely driver.
I think because they were in over their heads. They were on the board to run a non-profit and then it metastasized into a high-stakes Fortune 50-sized company.
In that reality they can drama all they want now, nobody really cares anymore.
Imagine when OpenAI has their 23&me moment in 2050 and a judge rules all your queries since 2023 are for sale to the highest bidder.
The use-cases for LLMs seem unexplored beyond basic chatbot stuff.
I would think entire industries could reform around having an LLM as a first pass on data, with software and/or human error checking at significant cost reduction over previous strategies.
The software behind Facebook as an app wasn't particularly unique, yet it eclipsed the competition. The same could be said for Google. Google didn't even have any real lock-in for years, but it still owned consumer mindshare, which gave it the vast majority of search traffic, which made it one of the most valuable companies in the world.
ChatGPT is in a similar position. The fact of the matter is, the average person knows what ChatGPT is and how to use it. Many hundreds of millions of normal people use ChatGPT weekly, and the number is growing. The same cannot be said of Claude, DeepSeek, Grok, or the various open source models.
And the gap is massive. It's not even close. It's like 400M weekly ChatGPT actives vs 30M monthly Claude actives.
So yes, the average Hacker News contrarian who thinks their tiny bubble represents the entire world might think that "nobody cares," in part because nobody they know cares, and in part because that assessment aligns with their own personal biases and desires.
But anyone who's been paying attention to how internet behemoths grow for the past 30 years certainly still cares about OpenAI.
I remember the search engines of the time and Google was a quantum leap.
ChatGPT is even more revolutionary but whatever Google is now, once it was brilliant.
This means that they're stuck with more expensive monetization plans to cover their free tier loss leader, hence the $200/mo Pro subscription. And once you're charging that kind of price to try to make ends meet, you're ripe for disruption no matter how good your name recognition.
You would think existing megacaps would be all over any new market if there is a profit to be made. Facebook's competition was basically other startups. That said, Google seems to be dropping the ball almost as bad as Yahoo.
But sure, if there's absolutely no way to make money from consumer AI then that will also make it hard for oai to win the game.
But it turns out that with enough funding, you can prioritize growth over profit for a very long time. And with enough growth, you can raise unlimited funds before you get to that point. And going this route is smart and effective if you want to get to a $1T valuation in under a decade.
So yeah, ChatGPT's margins might not be as high as Facebook's. But it doesn't really matter at this point, they're in growth mode. What matters is whether or not they'll be able to turn their lead and their mindshare into massive profits eventually, and while we can speculate on that, it's far too early to definitively say the answer is no.
First, queries from users can be combined and fed into servers in batches so that hundreds of queries can be concurrently served by a single node. Second, people aren't on and asking ChatGPT questions every second of every day. I'd guess the median is more like ~single digit queries per day. Assuming average response length of 100 tokens and throughput of 50 tok/s at batch size 50, that's 25 QPS or 2.1M queries per day, or 420k users served per node at 5 queries per user per day.
Now, a single 8xH100 node is a lot more expensive than $5/mo, so you're directionally correct there, but I'd wager you can segment your market aggressively and serve heavily distilled/quantized models (small enough to fit onto single commodity GPUs, or even CPUs) to your free tier. Finally, this is subject to Huang's Law, which says every 2 years the cost of the same performance will more than halve.
This isn't correct at all. Google's search engine was an important stepping stone to the behavior that actually gave them lock-in, which was an aggressive, anti-competitive and generally illegal effort to monopolize the market for online advertising through acquisitions and boxing out competitors.
It really was only possible because for reasons we decided to completely stop enforcing antitrust laws for a decade or two.
I finally finished the 4th of Caro's books about LBJ, "The Passage of Power", largest part about how LBJ dealt with assassination. Over and over shows how LBJ made sure that nobody, meaning world leaders, citizens, others in government, and, relevant here, also those in the Kennedy administration would feel lost and want to resign. Caro made sure to note how this is a very difficult task and required LBJ to act differently than normal, but also how important it is to not have things go into disarray which easily happens.
Side note: Astounding notes of how LBJ was able to get bills that weren't going to get through congress with Kennedy were pushed through and made possible by Johnson. Quote to end a chapter by Richard Russell, southern complete segregationist and racist, says "You know, we could have beaten John Kennedy on civil rights, but we can't Johnson." Other side, Caro makes certain however about how the coming issues of Vietnam show the darker side of LBJ and not get fully caught up in his stability of power and civil rights successes.
Maybe these are all cases of those who want power are usually those who shouldn't have it.
Dubious moral decision but an excellent business one. Perhaps the benefit of hindsight where ChatGPT didn't cause immediate societal collapse helps here.
/s
If this was the fault of Altman, it is understandable that certain people would want him out.
If we could incrementally update our own brains by swapping cells for chips, what percentage of our brain has to be chips before us learning from a book is a violation of copyright?
When learning to recite a recent children's poem in kindergarten, what level of accuracy can a child attain before their ability to repeat it privately to one other person at a time is a copyright violation?
The same percentage at which you stop qualifying to be human and become an unthinking tool, fully controlled by its operator to do whatever they want, without free will of its own and without any ethical concerns about abuse and slavery, like is the case with all LLMs.
(Of course, it is a moot point, because creating a human-level consciousness with chips is a thought experiment not grounded in reality.)
> When learning to recite a recent children's poem in kindergarten, what level of accuracy can a child attain before their ability to repeat it privately to one other person at a time is a copyright violation?
Any level thanks to the concept called human rights and freedoms, famously not applied to machines and other unthinking tools.
> as an echo of the past when people had the same debate about women and non-Europeans.
If you need help spotting the difference between skin color or gender variation and an imagined ability to imbue something we cannot even define (like consciousness) onto arbitrary substrates, I am not the right person for that.
If you are going to use human brain cells to memorize protected content and sell it as a product, that's still an issue based on current copyright laws.
You would never want to use an LLM to archive your writings or documents. They are incredibly bad at this.
LLMs are massive, lossy compressed datasets. They were designed to store the gist of effectively all digital language content humans ever created so an inference engine could use that data space to predict what a person might say to a prompt.
They were never designed to regurgitate exact copies of the original sources just use your favorite zip algorithm for that.
The question would be how closely an LLM can regurgitate an answer before running into copyright issues, and how the original training dataset was obtained.
And yet, that's all most billable hours at McKinsey, BCG, KPMG, are for. Those consultants memorized copyrighted stuff so your executives didn't have to.
It's very difficult to explain how GPT is not consulting.
You’d think any logical person would believe only one or the other is true, but big tech got many people believing this paradox because the industry depends on it. As soon as the paradox is over, the industry is revealed to be either based on IP theft or on slavery.
There is no problem to argue about, really: laws and basic rights and freedoms exist for humans; if %thing% (be it made of chips or brain cells) is not considered human then laws and rights apply to humans who operate it; if the thing is considered human then it itself has human rights to be reckoned with.
(This would be separate from the contributory infringement claim if the model will output a copyrighted work verbatim)
> This would be separate from the contributory infringement claim if the model will output a copyrighted work verbatim
2. Commercial for-profit models were shown to do that, and (other legal arguments aside, such as model and/or its output being a derivative work, etc.) in some cases that was precisely the smoking gun for the lawsuit, if I recall correctly.
I have not seen any conclusive outcome, I suppose it will depend on jurisdiction.
What is the competitive advantage of using chatbots, exactly?
Any advantage from ML that I can think of comes from advanced applications that require pre-existing knowledge, like biotech, metamaterials, etc.
— I fail to see how being able to use ML to cheat on a test or to avoid learning something (including command of own language) provides an advantage.
— I can see how requiring an LLM trained on unlicensed work to be opened up and free for everyone to use could provide an advantage.
— I can see how lack of regulation in this industry could result in a quick reduction of the number of jobs in a number of industries and therefore be a disadvantage to the economy, in the worst case benefiting a small number of for-profit corporate operators.
And the story isn't about that single incident of Altman dodging review and working behind the backs of the board—it's about a pattern of deception and toxic management practices that culminated in Altman lying to Murati about what the legal department had said, which lie was given to the board as part of a folio of evidence that he needed to be ousted.
You're trying to distill a pattern of toxicity and distrust into a single decision, which ameliorates it more than is fair.
If this is something he's been doing for years, it becomes clearer why Y Combinator fired him, though they have been kind of cagey about it.
In November 2023, OpenAI CEO Sam Altman was suddenly fired by the board—not because of AI safety fears or Effective Altruism, but due to concerns over his leadership, secrecy, and possibly misleading behavior. CTO Mira Murati and chief scientist Ilya Sutskever shared evidence of Altman’s actions, like skipping safety protocols and secretly controlling OpenAI’s startup fund.
The board didn’t explain the firing well, and it backfired. Murati, who at first supported the board, turned on them when they wouldn’t give clear reasons. Nearly all OpenAI employees, including Murati and Sutskever, threatened to quit unless Altman came back. With the company on the brink of chaos, the board caved and he was reinstated days later.
https://assets.msn.com/content/view/v2/Detail/en-in/AA1BRU7s
“One Company for All People” is a great weakness of American companies and is contributing to this economic downturn, and not just in tech. Corporate Universalism needs to go the way of history.
They have a great incentive to quicken AI science, as it will lead to disillusionment, if not replacement, of the knowledge economy, in other words the US economy. I believe this to be the hidden motive and it's not about profit.
It’s quickly surpassing the US.
The way I see it, everything points to the opposite being true: US companies, by and large, are completely dominant in technology. Google seems to be winning the race and is exactly the "one company for all people" kind of place you're talking about. Academic studies have generally shown that diverse teams outperform monocultures.
From thereon, every exception must be justified to - and approved by - their respective politburo.
An obvious second-order effect is that there has been an explosion of Chinese B2B companies eager to get themselves established in the market. They know that in just a few years they can still sell their services outside China, but can expect very limited competition from non-Chinese companies. And inside the country, they have a population of ~4x of US to compete for.
And then to see people here defending this new state of affairs. It's a different world we are living in now.
What’s changed is that certain individuals don’t even try to hide privilege any more.
I wouldn't feel comfortable writing about it, it's not illegal but it just doesn't feel right.
Then please don't make provocative claims in public in the first place. It's just trolling then. As the saying goes, put up or shut up.
From HN comment guidelines:
> The most important principle on HN, though, is to make thoughtful comments. Thoughtful in both senses: civil and substantial.
Your claim that this is fiction, without any evidence or "proof", as you put it, is neither substantial nor thoughtful.
I am genuinely curious as to why you would make a splash in the comment section with this and then not explain yourself.
But this should be enough for you,
"This account is based on interviews with dozens of people who lived through one of the wildest business stories of all time"
The WSJ isn't some random blog. Regardless of what you think of their opinion pages, their reporting is generally factually legit.
So you seem to be suggesting that their story is, indeed, correct.
Then please share your own version of events, we'd all love to read it! If you spent weeks doing all that research, I'm sure it was so others could learn?