A deliberate practice app for guitar players who want to level up
captrice.io
captrice.io
I had also posted on the "What are you working on?" thread yesterday - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43531684.
Happy to answer any questions.
He demo'd Captrice last week, to a bunch of friends here in Bangalore. And I knew he was going straight to the "infinite bikeshed", based on his tepid answers to questions like "Wow this is cool! So... Launch, when?".
Plus, you made m'dude earn his "First Internet Dollar". To whomever did the "buy me a coffee" thing... you're awesome! There is a stark psychological "before/after" of earning your F.I.D. Now he can't ever go back.
As someone stuck in his own Infinite Bikeshed, I take heart from this event, and hope to follow in his footsteps sooner than later :)
For those who can't read sheet music, can I suggest a guitar tabs?
BTW the original comment didn't make sense since the app does support tab, just wanted to make this point. Also not saying that learning std notation isn't valuable although many excellent players never learn it.
I'm learning my first (serious) instrument and I've decided on the lyre, since it's similar to other string instruments (guitar, ukulele, traditional harp) but a bit easier.
Will you support other instruments for lessons, other than the guitar?
It might even work for piano as well, there's an example here - https://alphatab.net/docs/alphatex/notes/#multiple-voices
You can find guitar teachers literally anywhere, guitar tabs are all over the internet, and you probably have friends who can give you a few pointers if you get stuck. Ukelele and bass guitar aren't that far behind.
In 1997, I asked a math professor about a statistics program, and he said R would never be used for real work.
In 1998, I was told that sure, I could learn Python if I wanted, but I should learn Java, but if I insisted on a scripting language, I should stick with Perl.
I don't use tools because I think they're popular, I do what I enjoy.
Also you didn't ask me why it might be easier for me to learn the lyre, which has to do with physical limitations I have.
For real "lessons" you'd probably need to start at chord progressions, go into scales and how the chords relate back to those, then move to these types of soloing technique lessons.
AlphaTab is the star here https://github.com/CoderLine/alphaTab - it's been maintained tirelessly for years by Daniel Kuschny.
I've started to build this type of lessons sitea few times in the past and never really got it together enough to release anything. I've done scale/chord/arpeggio tools: https://github.com/webprofusion/scalex
The Guitar Grimoirr scale book is 200 pages!
Edit: the minor scale doesn't count because C major = A minor if you start on A, fair enough, forget that one.
It might actually count since the harmonic minor exists. But this is just stressing the point that all of those "separate" scales might perhaps be best introduced as simple variations of the usual diatonic scale. Then sure, you might want to practice them a little bit, but at least you should have "learned" them in that you are not wondering what you're supposed to play.
The prefix of "diatonic" is "dia" ("through"), not "di" ("two"), but nobody really knows what exactly its origin (διάτονος, "diátonos") was supposed to mean[1]: it's probably either something like "through the tones" or "stretched out tones".
The second meaning is closer to the modern definition we have for diatonic: the 7 (out of 12) notes are selected to be as stretched out as possible in the octave, that is, each adjacent note is either 1 or 2 semitones apart, and the two 1-semitone-apart pairs are as far as possible from each other (note that the second requirement excludes e.g. the ascending melodic minor[2] from being considered diatonic, even though it has 7 notes).
(If anything, I would want a "guitar learning" app to automatically come up with its own exercises, similar to ear training apps for learning to recognize intervals - and using something like a spaced repetition approach to evaluate how the user is doing.)
> What do you need "scales" practice for on guitar?
> These patterns only have to be practiced a little bit
https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/43516/can-someone-...
There is definitely theory to how they are constructed, and you are right that the shifts and adjustments can be derived if you think about it and practice it. But that's just a longer way to the five patterns.
I've since gone back and learned a bit of music theory as an adult and it's been super helpful understanding the underlying principles so I can work things out vs. having to just memorize things without understanding why they work.
I think then you can go practice the various scale patterns and get good at them with the knowledge that you can always work out the scale from first principles if you need to.
Different strokes for different folks though I guess, I'm sure there's an argument to be made for not overwhelming folks with too much theory out of the gate. Not sure if I had started with a bunch of theory if I would have stuck with it when I was younger.
Thing is, it's not even "too much theory". It really is just a simple tone-semitone pattern and a few bare facts about how the usual guitar tuning works, that you'd know anyway if you've ever had to tune your guitar by hand. That's all it takes to make the guitar explainable from first principles. Then sure, you can practice the "patterns" all you want for convenience's sake, but you don't have to commit anything to memory that you could not figure out again from scratch if needed.
I would agree with you. I feel like watching videos where someone goes "hey, so here's this pattern that completely unlocks the neck for you, don't be stuck in a box anymore!" and all they're showing you is where the various notes in a key are along the neck (now I know that, but I wouldn't have known that before...) and it's WAY more confusing than if you just learn how the pentatonic scale works and how to find the notes in a key etc. And the funny thing is, the only reason I was stuck in that box in the first place is because of silly rote memorization without understanding why you play the various notes in a scale etc., it just feels like this thing that kind of compounds when you just learn patterns vs. just learning the underlying principles.
But again, I'm completely amateur at this stuff still, and I don't have any experience teaching other folks an instrument, so it's hard for me to say with any certainty that we should be teaching it one way or another I guess.
I agree. The downvoted op is right in a way. Guitarists have a way to make things difficult. Just learn to play the 1 octave major scale/arpeggio, and triads, then 7th shells. The guitar is relative, a 1 octave scale on a guitar is the same, on keyboard it's positional.
However it's worth mentioning that I think Berklee does teach patterns, and a few jazz guitarists say to learn it too. It almost seems like learning guitar is not as worked out as other instruments. Everybody that gets good winds up having to learn all the things other guitarists have had to figure out over years after they rote learned it.
A pattern is a way of playing a scale across the strings without having to move your hand. To play the same scale in the same key at a different position on the neck, the pattern of notes is different.
You have to learn 5 different patterns to be able to play a single pentatonic scale anywhere on the neck.
Obviously they all start at a different position if you want to use a different key - that is easy. Still 5 patterns to learn though just for that one scale.
> AlphaTab is the star here
Absolutely! High quality stuff. I wasn't aware of the person behind the project. Thanks for mentioning it.
Far fewer features than your app, but just having a tool to help nail down the muscle memory of pre-built progressions has been massively helpful for me as a banjo-player-in-training.
Your exercise builder is awesome and something I was planning on building into my site, might take some inspo!
Definitely will be using your app.
For anyone else confused, it doesn't listen to you play, it just logs your use of the metronome and provides tabs.
IMO the app would be cooler if it was simply the metronome app on a page. And if you want to track which song you are working on, then just add the ability to label a session. Could have a different mode for people who want it over videos, but usually when I'm practicing, I know the tab and am not watching a video while I practice.
Nowadays they have a subscription service, I don't know what the quality of that is. But I mostly still play on the "2014 remastered" edition with a "real tone cable" on macOS, but I think they updated that and you can play with any "audio interface" device you like. There is also the customsforge library for unofficial songs, but quality varies.
Between Rocksmith and Youtube tutorials, playing along with my favourite songs is the most fun I can get out off playing guitar that my skill level and time investment allows. I'll never play in a band or make a decent sounding song, but enjoying and getting enveloped by music is good enough.
> IMO the app would be cooler if it was simply the metronome app on a page. And if you want to track which song you are working on, then just add the ability to label a session. Could have a different mode for people who want it over videos, but usually when I'm practicing, I know the tab and am not watching a video while I practice.
The tab is mainly for (1) future reference, specially if you are creating your own exercises (2) sharing them with others. Sometimes I come up with short exercises myself that cover a specific technique or some picking pattern I am struggling with. Overtime I tend to forget those. In an earlier version, you could either add a tab or embed a video. But then I thought why not both! Feedback taken though, it should be fairly easy to make the tab/video section collapsible. Ability to label sessions in also on the roadmap.
The guitar is a difficult instrument to learn, especially in the beginning phases. After 30 years it’s a conversation I have frequently - people try and give up a lot. If this can help some folks stick with it and become better understanding and practiced with their instrument, I hope that happens again and again and again. Every generation needs guitarists, as it’s the instrument of expressive rebellion the world round.
Great share and a Bill and Ted EXCELLENT weedly weedly weee!
If you’re game, on electric you might enjoy a baritone scale guitar. I got an LP style 27” by Agile (PRS makes a nice SE model) and it’s a neat dynamic.
Very glad you shared about your experience. Just as a note, don’t go near any EVH signature models - the neck and fretboard is like a Telecaster but smaller!
> people try and give up a lot. If this can help some folks stick with it and become better understanding and practiced with their instrument, I hope that happens again and again and again
This resonates so much.
Firstly, the tab for that exercise is long enough to need a scroll bar, and so I don't understand how one is supposed to play along with that tab to a metronome... am I expected to operate the scroll bar every couple of measures while still staying in time with the metronome? So I would suggest either auto-scroll, or better yet just find a way to get all 12 measures of the exercise to fit on the screen at the same time. I have a big enough monitor that it would fit.
Secondly, although you have the link to the embedded video player, I wouldn't be able to keep the intended sound of the exercise in my head long enough that I would feel confident I was playing the exercise right later. The app really feels like it needs a synthesized guitar sound that would play the notes of the exercise, so that I could play it along with the synthesized version and know whether I was hitting the right note. It would be OK if it sounded cheesy -- that would be better than nothing, and then once I was confident that I had the correct sequence down, I would disable the synthetic sound.
I agree, this app is not great for learning a piece of music but it works well for practicing an already learnt piece. This is how I have been using it for myself.
As I mentioned in another comment, the tab and the video are mainly for reference i.e. to answer the question what to practice. Earlier, it only allowed either a tab or a video. At some point I added support for both (because why not!) Looks like that's causing some confusion.
I like your idea of playing along with a synthesized sound in the learning phase, although I haven't tried it myself. I believe alphatab (the lib used for tablature) does support midi playback which could make it function like guitar pro. Need to see how much complexity it introduces (mainly related to getting both the metronome and the midi to play together, never tried it). Perhaps there could be two separate modes to keep things simple - a learning mode without metronome and a practice mode (same as current). Won't promise anything but will at least do a POC.
Thanks for the detailed feedback.
PS: The link you shared wouldn't work for anyone else, as it only exists on your device thanks to the local-only-ness. Have some thinking to do to make this more intuitive.
[1]: https://bulma.io/
It's not the most eco-friendly thing I've ever done, but I figure it's a pretty small amount of plastic in the grand scheme of things (especially in my line of work).
One useful exercise is to fret a note as you normally do, and play it. Then keep picking or plucking that note with gradually less pressure applied by your fretting fingers. At some point, the note will choke and not sound out any more. Then, a little more pressure can be applied to make it sound out again. That minimal level of force is going to be the ideal amount for stamina and to prevent injury. There’s nothing to be gained by pressing harder, in fact you can bend notes slightly sharp by pressing really hard. In many forms of instrument practice, hand tension is often the enemy (especially for faster soloing).
Playing electric guitar also helps immensely due to the thinner strings and lower action.
When you're ready to record then you can put acoustic strings on it, heh :-)
> this creates horrible calluses on my fingers
I think both are good problems to have :-). Consistently practicing for more than an hour every day is quite difficult unless you are professionally into it. If you are able to manage it then that's commendable. And once the calluses are formed, it doesn't hurt as much. A downside of skipping practice for a week, besides the practice itself, is that the calluses go away.
It's mentioned on the faqs page - https://www.captrice.io/user-guide/faqs.html. Missed updating the link. Will push a fix shortly.
Import from Guitar Pro sounds like a good idea and the format doesn't seem to be proprietary based on a quick google search. Will explore further. Thanks!
- App listens to your playing
- Identifies your weaknesses
- Creates a curated lesson plan
- App actively listens as you progress through the plan and adjusts
1. Get a very cheap guitar with nylon strings
2. Tune it to a major chord
3. Learn to barre, that is, hold down all the strings with one finger.
4. Play twelve-bar blues, just the chords, until sick.
6. When unable to bear any more, look for ways to change it up.
Edit: Look, here's the reasoning. First, the cheap guitar is not intimidating. The strings are soft. The tension is low. It isn't heavy, you can pick it up easily. It isn't valuable, so you can throw it down in disgust. Second, by playing something completely braindead, you get lots of basics sorted out about ergonomics and how hard to press the strings and how to strum and general confidence. Thirdly, because you're playing an actual tune right from the start, it's rewarding, and when the reward wears off you already have a base to work from which can be improved in small ways to seek further reward.
Incremental ways, in fact, which is a possible alternative to the word "deliberate".
I would consider a teacher important enough that I would borrow/rent an instrument to try out teachers and only after you find a teacher you like buy. It is typically better to play an instrument you have never heard of before taught by a teacher you "click" with than buy the instrument you think you want but not find a good teacher.
That said, online lessons are great supplements to your teacher. And if you are broke (between jobs) often cheap. Sometimes online lessons can teach you things that your local teacher cannot (as opposed to will not because you are not ready). However the local teacher will also correct things that you will lie to yourself about.
It may also be the context, I play original, improvisational music with people/in front of an audience and YouTube may be particularly bad at preparing people for this.
I'm ready to be downvoted.
You can see sometimes course authors acknowledging these metrics. Companies training departments just wash their hands and say, we have these thousands of courses made available for our employees... :-)
Of course people who learn at home on their own will, on average, be worse than people going out and playing with other musicians. That would likely be even more true if they bought a VHS tape with lessons, or book with a CD.
Completely FREE, while also being super detailed and comprehensive!
Find a teacher that can play the stuff you want to eventually play. Then take some lessons and assess whether you enjoy the process of working with them. Learning scales and doing exercises to get better will feel like a grind no matter what. A good teacher will give you enough variety to stimulate growth and make you have an appetite for the process of improvement.
Edit: meant to mention that buying a used guitar is a great way to save money, too. You can buy from Guitar Center's used section and have a 45 day return period. If you live near a store, you can just take it back there, as well. If you're not sure how to assess the instrument, you can buy something from there, take it to a guitar tech and have them check it out/set it up to make sure it's ok.
\tuning G2 D2 A1 E1 B0
If you are specifically looking for an android app, I've only found one that comes closest - Instrumentive[1]. It allows tracking time for the entire practice session besides uploaded recording of the session. Whereas my use case is to track the duration of practice at every tempo. Trying to play for extended duration seems to work well for me in terms of building endurance and muscle memory.
For that matter, I think the app should work for practicing any instrument that can be practiced with a metronome if you ignore tablature (which is only for reference anyway).
For now I want focus on guitar as that’s my primary use case but I’d love to extend it for other instruments in future.
Check this for bass guitar - https://alphatab.net/docs/alphatex/metadata#tuning
Check the example here for piano - https://alphatab.net/docs/alphatex/notes/#multiple-voices
Is there a different word you’d choose? ‘Intentional’ is equally misused.
Thanks for the suggestion though. Definitely something to think about. I personally hate “opinionated” too.