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Comment by dzhiurgis | Hacker News Reader

I’m guessing Tesla is paying xAI to train their FSD model?

That would be a shocking conflict of interest - a public company paying a private company, which is owned by the CEO of the public one ?

All while the same CEO claims that the public company is the leader in the field ?

Even by Tesla & Musk lawlessness standard that would be too wild.

Don't worry, the Tesla board is totally on top of things.

We already have multiple news stories about xAI receiving 10,000s of GPUs that were originally meant for Tesla. That's about as close to "public company giving private company owned by CEO money" as you could possibly get without cartoon sacks of cash.

> Even by Tesla & Musk lawlessness standard that would be too wild.

Not to be overly snarky here, but, uh: what standard? They have proven over and over that they could not give less of a shit about either societal norms or the laws of the nation.

Now that you say that, Tesla is already paying the Boring Company, to build a highly advertised ... short tunnel for Tesla Giga factory.

Which they spend 3 years or so building and which seem completely useless. The only big unknown would be how much Tesla did Boring Company for that.

So yeah...

The entire stack is based on TSLA valuation, which is going to tank.

IMO this is going to be meteoric in nature. As in the meteor hits the ground.

If the world wasn't perceptibly irrational, I'd short.

Yep, I also believe that we will have a Minsky Moment on the entire Muskonomy.

Given his political involvement, I would assume that the maximum end date for this house of cards is the date when Trump is no longer in power - which is less than 4 years away. The real date is probably much sooner, but who knows when ?

For anyone else who wasn't familiar with a Minsky Moment

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/minskymoment.asp

But that then means that Musk has a strong incentive to keep Trump (or some replacement that will similarly let him do whatever he wants) in power past these 4 years.

Buying time to get the rocket finished that he will ride escaping his creditors to Mars. That would be a badly written plot even by the standard of cheesy comic books, but somehow it all makes sense from that angle. (no, I don't believe that he would ever get within explosion range of a rocket engine ignition)

People do not last in Trump's orbit. I'm shocked Musk has lasted as long as he has. I though he'd practically be a Scaramucci.

Every six months is a 50% chance of ejection.

A few hundred billion will buy you a lot of politicians in this climate.

There is also the "first buddy" benefit. The whole thing is being actively rebuilt at a time when Musk has been heading a department which, amongst other things, openly backdoored the treasury. It's pretty uncharted waters.

Stock market graveyards are full of people that shorted TSLA. I remember reading about people who lost it all because of a TSLA short at least since 2020. The lesson here is that markets can remain irrational longer than we can remain solvent.

I remember all the other major shorts.

In those cases, it usually revolved around Tesla releasing either the Model 3 or Y, and they were betting against Musk's execution in general. What wasn't really up for debate (in my mind) was the technological lead or the demand in the marketplace for the car.

Essentially, Tesla was primed in both situations for a huge market they had to themselves: electrified transport.

Now?

- demand is tanking, and the brand is permanently damaged, well, as long as Musk is at the helm.

- competitors are everywhere

- technological moat (with respect to EV drivetrain/construction) is gone. I could argue their cylindrical cells are legacy/semi-obsolete in fact, since IMO pouch cells are superior for LFP/sodium ion, and who knows what solid state will optimally package.

Anyway, things are VERY different in my opinion.

> The entire stack is based on TSLA valuation, which is going to tank.

But it's not is it. Try looking at the trends long term, not just YTD. It's remarkably stable, trending upwards. Yes it gain a bunch of value from October to January/February, which is has lost. Investors seems to have traded on the "First Buddy" effect, that didn't actually do anything for Tesla, so that value has now been removed and we're back on the original trend line.

How the hell drop in sales and lose of brand value hasn't caused to stock to absolutely tank is beyond me. Is someone artificially keeping the price stable? Do investors see something I don't, or they do just not care?

That's what Tesla shareholders get for not giving Musk the $50B that he so much "deserved" to be fully "invested" in the company.

No, Tesla has their own seperate training supercomputer called Dojo that it optimized for computer vision. Its one of the top 20 supercomputers in the world by compute.

That’s all marketing. They have had lots of issues getting it put together and working, and is more akin to really really really self driving in 2018 we were told.

BTW: find it: https://top500.org/lists/top500/list/2024/11/

Yes - it's really really close to FSD as you say ! Here is also a nice chart they published 2 years ago:

https://electrek.co/2023/06/21/tesla-dojo-supercomputer-is-f...

Definitely on the FSD timeline right now - they are maybe at 1% of what they announced they would be today. But hey, it's Optimus now !

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