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Comment by dismalaf | Hacker News Reader

As someone who has a 2.5 year old learning multiple languages, I think a problem with English is that it's very verbose; we use full sentences to express things that can be expressed in other languages with only 1-2 words. And of course shorter sentences are easier for children as there's less grammar to be learned.

And specifically for expressing you hurt yourself, we teach children to express that they're hurt far earlier than they learn actual speech. So from ~1 we teach them to say "Ow" (or some variation), but then the words change from that to "hurt", and into a full sentence "I hurt myself", which is also redundant (myself and I imply the same thing, so why do we use both in that sentence in English?).

Anyhow just a thought as I'm feeding my son breakfast. "Would you like some breakfast" in English turns into 2 words in his second language.

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Your understanding of how formality levels in English function is perhaps not entirely complete: native speakers of English convey usually convey the sentiment with as little as "Breakfast?" or "Hungry?" when talking with family. In the child's second language, would the maitre'd at the restaurant of a fine hotel ask a two word question, or rather bury those in respectful filler?

"Ow" and friends, by the way, are interjections to express sudden pain, functioning analogously to an adult's swearing. They're not full sentences about the pain and its source.

> Your understanding of how formality levels in English function is perhaps not entirely complete: native speakers of English convey usually convey

It's kind of hilarious that you assume I'm not a native English speaker because I speak more languages... I'm a native English speaker who just happens to have grown up with 2 other languages and have a wife that speaks 4+ languages. On top of that I've taken a bunch of university level English courses.

Yes, I'm aware that people shorten sentences into statements when speaking to those they're familiar with. I do it as well.

Here's a thought experiment:

- If a toddler speaks in short statements it's "baby talk"

- If an immigrant speaks in short statements it's "broken English"

- If a native speaker speaks in short statements it's vernacular or slang

Or:

- If a toddler makes up words it's "baby talk"

- If an immigrant makes up words they're uneducated

- If a native speaker makes up words it's a dialect

Most of those incorrectly use the linguistic terminology (in particular, "dialect", "baby talk", "slang") but, yes, congratulations on discovering that context plays a role in communication.

Ah so you want to be snarky to try assert intellectual superiority but actually have nothing to say. Gotcha.

I don’t get it, you can’t just ask “want breakfast?”

You can and you do but it sounds "babyish". That's my point. Whereas in some other languages it's idiomatic.

No it doesn't. I don't ask my colleague "Would you care to go to the bar and drink a beer after work?" I say "Grab a beer later?" As does every other normal person I know. "Get lunch?" Etc.

Even “Lunch?” is enough with someone you know well.

I think you’re overthinking it. I’ve been talking to my kids like they’re just normal people since they were born.

“Oh how old are they, 5? Nope, just turned 3. They speak so well!” shrug

The second language must be biasing you somehow, it’s not hard to talk to your kids.

It's not about how I talk to my kid; he's picking up 2 languages just fine (trying a third but I'll admit I'm slacking a little on that one).

It's about the perception of how children speak in English.

> The second language must be biasing you somehow

"Would you like some breakfast" isn't quite so overly wordy that I'd say it sounds unnatural, but it absolutely is not the bare minimum for idiomatic English.

"Do you want breakfast?" is perfectly grammatical, and "Want breakfast?" would be a totally normal phrasing, even if some might argue that eliding the subject isn't technically correct.

There's even the in-between "You want breakfast?" that relies on the tonal shift at the end of the sentence used for questions.

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