The Epicenter of Conspiracy Belief | Hacker News Reader

The Epicenter of Conspiracy Belief

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19 pointsluu15 comments

People don't actually 'fit' into these categories.

It's just that people cannot easily sense when terms like 'right' and 'left' have become practically meaningless, and are being used as blunt objects by both sides, to no useful end. When the landscape approaches an even distribution of anything, there is no way out of a "flame war" as someone has cleverly put it. Signals get crossed all the time in ways that could not present in double blind studies of animals.

Like that old trope in psychology "Do you hear voices?" "Are they pleasant voices?" "Are they telling you to do things?" as a form of entrapment / diagnosis / dismissal.

Of course it's not that simple, until you meet someone else for whom it is. Then you're defending your sanity. Just to touch directly a bit on the discussion, I feel threatened by people who claim they don't hear voices. They're either lying or missing something.

Even splits of opinion based on observation and judgement (real or imagined) is a dangerous time.

Papers or articles like this always rub me the wrong way. They seem to take for granted that powerful elites aren't ever actually conspiring. I know they're mainly addressing the low-iq/schizo ones primarily but it's still annoying considering countless "conspiracies" have been shown to be true

I actually see it worse than that. Complaints that the powerful elite are doing X against the rest of us is reframed at “the powerful elite are in a conspiracy together to do X”. Which is no longer the original argument.

Bezos and musk don’t have to conspire together to oppose unions and squash them. They both gladly do it on their own and would do so without needing to conspire.

But by framing it as a conspiracy that they work together, you can now dismiss that the fact that the activity is actually happening by simply saying that there’s no proof they are working together and that it’s just a conspiracy theory.

> Bezos and musk don’t have to conspire together to oppose unions and squash them. They both gladly do it on their own and would do so without needing to conspire.

> But by framing it as a conspiracy that they work together, you can now dismiss that the fact that the activity is actually happening by simply saying that there’s no proof they are working together and that it’s just a conspiracy theory.

So basically, it's a straw man. Concoct a story where it's being done in a smoke-filled back room, then say it can't be true because neither Bezos or Musk are smokers.

Though I do wonder if there's a more indirect conspiracy going on. Business elites all have the same interest to oppose unions: maybe they don't often get together in smoke-filled back rooms, but they can pump money into the same anti-union think tanks and consultancies, which could have a similar effect.

Good point totally agree. If incentives are aligned there is no need for communication

Additionally, if the market participants are few in number there is no need for explicit or direct cooperation.

i wish i could upvote this 100 times. like an cop walking into a bar full of criminals. any criminal that has to ask someone what to do won't last long.

plus they can actually be enemies. two guys in a beef about who owns a dog can chain up the dog and fight it out. the dog remains owned

> considering countless "conspiracies" have been shown to be true

What are some of these confirmed conspiracies? I can't think of too many significant ones. Maybe the Phoebus Cartel and tobacco health effects cover up?

here are three:

founding of the federal reserve: https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/jekyll-island-c...

operation midnight climax: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Midnight_Climax

operation northwoods: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

A few historical examples involving the us government: MK-Ultra, COINTELPRO, Tuskegee Syphilis Study, NSA Mass Surveillance (Snowden Leak), Gulf of Tonkin Incident, Iran-Contra Affair.

If I list the most recent ones it will just start a flame war.

> Individuals with economically left-wing and culturally conservative attitudes tend to score highest on conspiracy thinking.

Because conspiracy is usually committed by right-wing individuals?

I identify as far left and am always scratching my head over conspiracy theorists in my realm. I get tired of hearing about vaccines, 5g, and wifi when I just want to improve the economic and material conditions of people.

Violent reaction to conspiracy I think remains in the far right camp I believe though.

I would say it more likely that "systemic thinking" is a common factor to both looking at society and the economy from a systemic perspective than an individualistic or tribalistic one, which translates to higher likelihood of supporting leftist rather than rightist views, as well a higher sensitivity in identifying "conspiracies".

But much like you I just pulled that out of my ass and much like the OP, this is junk science.

our friends in the academy and in the press have been paid a lot of very good money to pathologize the notion that conspiracies exist

If you sense an attack on a dictionary word, try to take it back with as much verve as you can muster.

"People conspire all the time to get things done. It's why we're such bosses. 'What a piece of work is a man! how noble in reason! how infinite in faculty! in form and moving how express and admirable! in action how like an angel!' Was there a particular conspiracy you were thinking of?"

"I was thinking about the patriarchal tyranny of language, not just in the bible but even Shakespeare."

"As opposed to a more enlightened gender neutral language, like Farsi? Not only a lack of gender articles, but pronouns?"

"Yes."

"Well... how'd that work out?"

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