The surprising, stealth rebirth of the American arcade | Hacker News Reader

The surprising, stealth rebirth of the American arcade

arstechnica.com

59 pointsiProject38 comments

I disagree, those are not arcades, they are bars and nightclubs that happen to have retro games spread throughout. I'm not taking my kids to a nightclub to play arcade games but one or two they mention would be worthy. Although it is nice to see interest in having arcade machines in some form so maybe it'll kick off interest in proper arcades.

From my experience, being someone that spent a great deal of time in arcades as a kid, that the arcade industry practically killed itself. True, consoles were a big competitor but there was nothing like getting in that line to put your token on the machine. Consoles is just friends having fun, arcades were friends and strangers competing. Totally different experience. But the arcades started dying when somebody had the silly idea that people wanted to play cockpit games or big interactive games for more than double the price. The next thing you knew those were the only choices you had. I stopped going at that point. This interest in the retro games that are classic standup machines seems to suggest people just wanted what they had in the first place.

>I disagree, those are not arcades, they are bars and nightclubs that happen to have retro games spread throughout.

Agree. They are arcade-themed bars. They admit in the article that the revenue stream from their arcade games can't pay for the game and let them even come close to staying in business. They sell beer, food, music, and dancing using arcade inspired nostalgia as a hook.

>True, consoles were a big competitor but there was nothing like getting in that line to put your token on the machine.

Disagree here. There was something like putting your token on your machine, except better. Having the machine in your living room, with arcade quality graphics. I don't believe that arcades could have simply kept their prices lower and still remained competitive. The cost of their new machines increases over time, as does rent and all of their other bills. I am certain that the increase in price they charged was purely a function of their costs, especially as it happened across the industry as a whole.

Edit: Incidentally, the misconception in the second line of yours that I quoted is the purest and most distilled expression of your first point. Nostalgia is a powerful force eh? ;)

For the second quote you go off on a tangent about costs. I'm just saying that sitting on the couch at home with your friends is not the same experience as putting your money on the machine to compete against someone you may not know. If you prefer the home environment with your friends then that's cool. I for one preferred the competition to be had at the local arcade.

I agree to a point with your thought on the costs. But to me a good bit of that is the fact they kept using more and more expensive machines that required an increase in pricing. There's no way someone can tell me that a classic stand up machine with a PC in the cabinet costs as much to buy/maintain as those huge behemoth cockpit games. These new machines may have been an attempt to counter consoles since most people will not put a race car cockpit game in their home, but for the most part were boring. Who wants to rock a fake horse forwards and backwards in a crappy rendition of a horse race? If the industry, in the US for me, had stayed away from that nonsense then I would have gladly gone to the arcade despite having a nice console at home. Right now I would love to be able to take my kids to an arcade like I remember having fun in despite having a nice console at home. But those arcades hardly exist any more. Even in local bowling alleys they have those stupid cockpit games.

>For the second quote you go off on a tangent about costs.

Tanjent? That's funny. I was responding directly to your citing cost as a factor for arcades dying:

>But the arcades started dying when somebody had the silly idea that people wanted to play cockpit games or big interactive games for more than double the price.

It's right there.

>There's no way someone can tell me that a classic stand up machine with a PC in the cabinet costs as much to buy/maintain as those huge behemoth cockpit games. These new machines may have been an attempt to counter consoles since most people will not put a race car cockpit game in their home, but for the most part were boring. Who wants to rock a fake horse forwards and backwards in a crappy rendition of a horse race?

If this were true, then we would have arcades with lower end, more cost efficient games instead of the ones you're pointing out. But we don't. I submit that it isn't because every single former arcade owner individually misjudged the market and stocked the wrong machines in their retail space.

>If the industry, in the US for me, had stayed away from that nonsense then I would have gladly gone to the arcade despite having a nice console at home.

On this, I also humbly submit that you are in the extreme minority.

But many of those lower end arcades existed but were hard to find. Some still exist today. Most of the arcades I was familiar with as a teenager were run by large companies that apparently made deals with arcade manufacturers for bigger and more expensive machines. I didn't get to experience much of the independent owners like Flynn's Arcade.

I don't think I said that every arcade owner made the mistake of misjudging the market, but I do think a large number of them did. I also lump the industry as a whole in this group, including the manufacturers. I simply think that the industry reached a point where it did not understand its own market. But I have no source to back this up though, just my opinion.

I agree I'm in the minority for my desire for a good old-fashioned arcade but this thread and the article we're discussing suggests that I'm not in an extreme minority.

As I stated elsewhere, this is all based on my experience and should be taken as such.

I knew arcades that hosted competitions and were really vying for the market you're talking about. Almost all of them did have music games (DDR, Beatmania), but those were incredibly popular and lucrative when they came out. When the popularity of those games died, many of these places went out of business.

Even with music games, these were places where most of the floor space was dedicated to the latest fighting games, old school shmups, etc.

There's simply very little demand in the US for the type of arcade you want.

I agree, this reminds me of those new-age bowling alleys complete with night-club-like lighting, bar, and even a "no white shirts" rule. I never felt comfortable in one of those, and always preferred to go to the run down, crappy bowling alleys.

Oh how I miss Mel's Bowl in Redwood City :(.

> those are not arcades, they are bars and nightclubs that happen to have retro games spread throughout.

No, these are definitely arcades that happen to serve adult beverages. I've only been to a few such places, so my experience is anecdotal, but the games are not 'spread throughout', they are packed into every square inch of available space. (with drink holders!)

Dave and Busters or some similar establishment probably qualifies as what you are describing, but I've never been so can't really say.

> But the arcades started dying when somebody had the silly idea that people wanted to play cockpit games or big interactive games for more than double the price.

You're right about the industry killing itself though, and it happened exactly how you say. The folks running the companies saw $ and forgot their core audience. Arcades were about putting your quarter up next and then schooling some cocky punk in Tekken, not paying $5 for an interactive single player movie where you can sort-of shoot some barrels or dinosaurs.

Anyway, these new places aren't for kids, they're for people like me (us?) who grew up with arcades but now love beer. And it's great!

From my experience Dave & Busters depends solely on your local spot. I've been in good and bad ones so you just have to try them out. The local one for me these days isn't so bad and I have taken my older kid to it for food and games. But they still have too many cockpit games. At least most of them are race related which does make sense. But they really need to get rid of that eight cockpit Sega Nascar game from like twenty years ago. My phone has better graphics.

I disagree, those are not arcades, they are bars and nightclubs that happen to have retro games spread throughout.

Not all of them. From TFA:

But the recent boom in arcade openings isn't just among places that use games as an excuse to serve alcohol. "Our intention was more to be a resource for young people in the community," said Jeromy Darling, who opened ZAP arcade in the Minneapolis suburb of Jordan as a way to keep the town's young people occupied. "There's really nothing for youth there. There's a water tower, a lake, a creek... it's small. That was really our intention when we opened, to be a safe resource for kids, to offer something in the community that was just sort of cheap fun."

I'm not taking my kids to a nightclub to play arcade games but one or two they mention would be worthy. Although it is nice to see interest in having arcade machines in some form so maybe it'll kick off interest in proper arcades.

Yeah, sounds like there are already some family friendly ones... hopefully more will emerge.

I disagree, those are not arcades, they are bars and nightclubs that happen to have retro games spread throughout.

I live in Portland and we have a fairly well known 'barcade' called Ground Kontrol. The games aren't spread out at all, there's barely room to move. When the lights are down and the blacklights are up, it's about as close as you can get to Flynn's Arcade[1]. From opening until 5pm every day, it's all ages.

But the arcades started dying when somebody had the silly idea that people wanted to play cockpit games or big interactive games for more than double the price.

The 2+ quarter games were an issue, but our mall arcade died out when it turned into a 'fun center' and they replaced a lot of the games with skill machines for tickets/prizes. I'm sure this was more profitable but boring as hell.

[1] http://groundkontrol.com/arcade/

I disagree with your arcade death reason by the 2x price. According to [1], arcades had started costing a $.25 USD since 1966. By standard rate of inflation of ~3.4% [2], that means it should cost approximately $1.50 USD today. One argument to this is rather the starting basis of $.25 is the right price. According to the same source, the golden age of arcade is ~1980. So for the sake of finding a lower optimal basis, let's assume that $.25 is the optimal pricing in 1980. Which means arcade games should cost ~$.75 to play today. Now the question becomes rather games should accept coins other than quarters so the pricing isn't such a steep step function, or game creators needed to start making games to justify 2x pricing. I guess they decided on the latter.

So I totally disagree with this assessment. I would say the consoles offering an alternative to arcade games at a reasonable price is the main reason. Yes, I agree with you that it's a totally different experience, but maybe not enough to stop going to the arcades when one can play for "free" at home or friends' house. This is the first step in killing the arcades. The second step is the internet and portable gaming/mobile as an alternate pastime for kids.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcade_game [2] http://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_rate/long_term_... (not sure the credibility of the site, but I'm sure the average inflation rate in US isn't too much different)

I'm sure your right in many ways, but I'm talking about the day that I had a choice between a 50 cent game (up from 25 which I was fine with) to a $1+ game in the same arcade on the same day, not over time. The $1+ game did not seem to be twice the fun. Then one day the 50 cent game was gone and all I had to choose from were the more expensive machines.

At that point I stopped going.

Granted, this is my experience and should be taken as such.

Looking at the competition for time today, many games on devices are $0.99 USD. A $1.50 USD game better be a heck of a cool experience.

For my part, I stopped going to arcades when the price went over $0.50 USD. It was more fun just to rent some games for the weekend.

The article didn't talk about Seattle specifically, but we have five major pinball/arcade destinations.

Shorty's in Belltown - a bar with 16 pinball machines and 13 arcade machines

Narwhal in Capital Hill - a bar with 8 pinball machines and many arcade games

Full Tilt Ice Cream - an Ice Cream parlor in Ballard with 13 pinball machines and several arcade games

Seattle Pinball Museum - an arcade in the International District with 31 new and classic pinball machines

Add-a-Ball - a bar in Fremont with 11 pinball machines

As well as several other restaurants / bars / arcades / game shops with several pinball and arcade games.

At least in Seattle, we do have many arcade destinations.

A bit sad that a reporter talked to the Insert Coin(s) guy, who's sort of a newcomer to the space but very successful, and didn't get a chance to chat with someone who's an expert in a similar space in the same city: visitors seemed to be coming in at a nice pace on our recent weekend trip to the Pinball Hall of Fame (http://www.pinballmuseum.org/). I don't see how they make any money, but they've got a great set of hardware and they obviously love their craft.

It would be awesome to see places like that and, say, Funspot Arcade grow financially so they could expand their offerings. Can you imagine how much fun it would be to hang out at the venue from "Hackers" (1995), but in real life? With a giant Wipeout game and stuff?!

Can you imagine how much fun it would be to hang out at the venue from "Hackers" (1995), but in real life? With a giant Wipeout game and stuff?!

Yep, I've spent a lot of time fantasizing about opening a place like that. I wish I had the money to do it. :-(

I've also been dreaming about opening a "hacker friendly" bar of some sort. A proper pub, with good food and beer, but designed to cater to hackers, cypherpunks, techno-anarchists, gamers, cyberpunks, crypto-anarchists, and geek/hacker types of all sorts.

The Pinball Hall of Fame is a non-profit. I agree that it's a fantastic experience (I had my bachelor party partly there).

Also, I would definitely love to visit that Hackers arcade.

I just visited Funspot in Laconia, NH a couple of weeks ago:

http://www.funspotnh.com/

It was great. All of the old games are lovingly maintained with a sign above them telling when they were introduced and how many copies were sold.

I was able to show my 6 and 8 year old daughters the original Pong game that I played when I was about their age as well as my later obsessions: Battle Zone, Asteroids, and Tempest. I guess I had a thing for vector graphics

This reminds me of a place near me Galloping Ghost (http://gallopingghostarcade.com/). If you're ever in the Chicagoland area, check it out. They charge an entry fee of $15 but all their games are on free play. Better yet, they let you come and go as you please for the entire day with that one purchase (so 11 hours of potential play time). They find and restore beat up arcade games as well as have a few PS3 in an arcade box with newer games (Mortal Kombat as well as Street Fighter). There is nothing like playing Mortal Kombat II for hours on end with a friend and then going to play NFL Blitz 99, NBA Jam and then back again. The best (and also worst) part is that there is no risk to play new games since they are all free (it is bad because you'll occasionally walk up to a game and have to either wait for the time to expire in game or just kill the character because somebody walked away mid game).

One phenomena I've observed in some modern video arcades is the advent of homebrew or "faux" cabinets. An official Street Fighter 4 cabinet costs around $10,000. However, because the most recent home console version of SF4 is identical to the arcade version, it's possible to simply buy an Xbox 360, a display, and a pair of fightsticks (input devices with parts identical to what you would find in an arcade cabinet) and build a wooden shell to house them. Total cost? Less than $1000 for parts, plus labor for assembly. Most people can't tell the difference, and even those who can tell the difference won't care, because the software and input hardware are identical. This makes it far more economical for establishments to offer these options--at $1000, you might not even worry about turning a profit from usage fees, and could offer the game mainly as a service to patrons.

The other benefit of the homebrew cabinet is that it allows you to run any console game you please. Marvel vs Cacpom 3, one of the two most popular fighting games in North America, is actually home console only--there's no official cabinet, so homebrew is the only way to go if you want an arcade setup.

In the case of SF4, the official Arcade version of the game is just a PC running Windows XP embedded (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taito_Type_X2#Taito_Type_X.C2.B...)

Gaming is huge and growing. There are ways to make arcades work, it's just not a straight rehash of the 80s arcades.

Take gamecenterarcade.com in san mateo. You might not know it's there but it's full most days for various game specific meetup/tournaments. Turns out their niche is giving the community a space to exist. They mostly charge on entry instead of play, and it seems like most gameplay is done on consoles not coin-op.

I agree. Personally, the locations that I find really fascinating about the arcade revival are the ones like GC, Southtown, and Super Arcade that are primarily focused on being community centers.

Article doesn't mention it, but I think a lot of people were reminded of Flynn's by Tron 2, and thought to themselves, hmm, what a good idea...

Watching Tron:Legacy certainly made me want to open an arcade! I just don't have the capital lying around to do it. But, yeah, it sure seems that with the right touch, the arcade could be revived as a business model. I sure hope so anyway, I miss arcades.

I actually found myself wondering if Disney would be willing to license the "Flynn's" name to somebody... how cool would it be to walk into an actual Flynn's arcade sometime? :-)

I think Disney uses "Flynn's" at one of their parks, so I doubt they would license it.

Don't know how they managed to miss talking about Baby Castles in NY :

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/13/nyregion/13joint.html?_r=1

http://kotaku.com/5670738/visit-a-place-where-it-is-ok-to-hu...

I worked in an arcade as a young man and must admit that this exact thing is a back-burner dream of mine. As mentioned in some other HN posts, certain scenes from the Tron movies only fuel the fire.

Coincidentally, if you ever find yourself in Portland, OR stop by Ground Kontrol. 4 player Ms. Pacman, good beer, live DJ and the whole upstairs is wall to wall pinball machines. When I die, this is my idea of heaven.

Is this all an American thing or is Europe seeing a similar revival?

Funland, in the Trocadero off Picadilly Circus (very much the geekiest place in London), closed fairly recently. I find it hard to believe there'd be a better place for an arcade in the UK, possibly anywhere in Europe, so it seems like a pretty bad sign.

The one big success story here is the namco center, which I think works on a pay-for-the-day basis; I've only known corporate days out there rather than people going on their own.

I'd like to think Caine's Arcade has picked up steam.

Hah, we have a place near where I live called Dorky's Bar Arcade. It's no Dave and Busters, but it is fun.

Arcades are cool, but they're too damn expensive. Make each game 5c and I'll play all the time.

I suspect that one of the major reasons why arcades are still viable in Japan but not the US is because each play costs 100 yen, well over a dollar.

At 25 cents a play, I suspect that most of these places make the majority of their profits from beer & food. If you're too cheap to pay 25 cents for a game, I suspect that you're too cheap to buy your food & drink at the arcade. If so, the arcades are probably glad they don't have your business.

Maybe I'm just going at all the wrong times, but any Taito Station pretty much hovers between 1-10% capacity (maybe 20% on weekends). I think they could certainly benefit from cheaper games, if only to give the kids on the way back from school a quick thrill with any spare coins they've got. Even making them 50円 would go a long way, since a 100 would get two games. I don't know about others, but I would never start a game if I only had one shot. Two tries, especially if a friend could go as well, would be good enough to draw me in to even the lamest pinball machine.

Note: I'm in Yokohama. I don't frequent arcades much so don't know about Tokyo, though I'll be in Diver City tomorrow to check out the ROUND1 (I heard it has a set rate for the facility).

I was just in Tokyo. Even during the daytime, the Taito Stations (at least in Akiba and Shinjuku) were over 20% capacity. And on weekenights and weekend evenings, particularly in Sinjuku, it was well over 50% of the machines in use. It felt more full than that, though, because there are lots of observers for whatever that 8-on-8 online mech game was and the new Hatsune Miku/vocaloid rhythm game.

Even the crane games are pretty heavily packed. My only major complaint, as an American, is that they reeked pretty heavily of cigarettes (though not as badly as pachinko parlors). It was like being taken back in time 5-10 years, back before major cities started mandating non-smoking environments.

I spend a lot of time here with my kids: http://nickelmaniagames.com/

My 10 and 12 year old boys like playing the old games just as much as I did when I was their age 30 years ago.

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