Comment by wonger_ | Hacker News Reader

Comment by wonger_ | Hacker News Reader

Seems we've attracted all the barefoot runners in this thread and none of the common-footed people...

Anyways, I'll add my experience with barefoot running:

- Forefoot/midfoot strike is the most important takeaway. Heel strikes are for walking (slow, low-impact), not running (faster, higher-impact).

- I used to get shin splints from sports like soccer and basketball. But as long as I do some barefoot jogging (1-2x/week) I'm pain free. I think it strengthens the supportive muscles around the knee and ankle. All the leg muscles, really.

- Speaking of soccer, anyone have recommendations for wide cleats?

- I only got one tiny thorn/splinter in the past few years of going barefoot.

- I'd rather jog on concrete than grass because grass can hide things like sharp objects or doggy dookie. In general, I run barefoot in places I trust, and I always scan the ground ahead of me as I run.

Note that I'm an amateur runner, not doing more than 5Ks. But cardio conditioning is my limiting factor, not feet or legs.

I'm in a very similar boat. I never went in for the full-on barefoot running, but did jump in on the Vibram 5 fingers bandwagon (still love them), and even today prefer minimalist shoes.

The switch to forefoot striking helped me a lot with pain in my knees, with my tendons getting inflamed. The trade-off was inflamed Achilles tendons, and occasionally the plantar fascia. It was a great trade-off.

Running in VFF's is awesome - so light, free, etc. Better on grass than pavement for sure. Because of my stride, I'm prone to blisters on my pads behind my pinky toes, so I would really burn through the VFF's in ways I don't with minimalist shoes, hence the switch. VFF's are also stinky, even when you've got lots of toe socks to help with moisture. (Those socks would develop holes even faster than the shoes)

All in all, I thought the toe shoes were awesome. If I was still super into running, I'd probably only wear them on race days.

Soccer, wide cleats - New Balance. NB runs a little wider anyway, then they do (or did when I purchased them) wide versions of the 442 cleat.

These are what I have, love these and have been going strong for a few years:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DVQVQHF?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_...

And then these for indoor:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B096NBWPWF?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_...

For wide cleats, check out Mizuno. I get mine on eBay from sellers in Japan. I tried literally every other wide cleat I could find in the US and nothing fit as well as Mizunos.

The Monarcida line is less expensive and has 4E sizing (the SW or Super-Wide models) but I’ve never really liked them because of the synthetic material they’re made from and the studs on the shoes.

The other option, which I’ve gone with, is the Monarca line. They’re usually made from Kangaroo leather (which can be stretched) and have a relatively wide sole plate. There are different Monarcas, looks for the “classic” ones not the alphas which have a synthetic upper and are said to run more narrow. Of the Monarca line, the MIJ (Made In Japan) shoes are supposed to be the widest and highest quality.

After so many years of wearing minimalist shoes I’ve found that cleats aren’t too comfortable to run in so I’ve gone to just wearing turf shoes. Mizuno’s previous models had a very bendy sole that lets my foot move pretty freely.

Hmm, interesting. I've recently gotten back into running, however shin splints are preventing me from running as much or as far as I would like. My cardio is good, but my legs/shins are what starts screaming first forcing me to stop. I also currently run almost exclusively on a treadmill (due to winter weather), which may be a self-inflicted issue.

Do you have any insight on treadmill or track, vs. running outside?

How far do you barefoot jog each week that seems to be enough for you?

I'd be curious to know whether you're heel striking when running. I'm a natural heel-striker, but I forced a change to mid-foot and my shin-splints disappeared altogether. It took a little time to build up to my heel-strike pace, but I did and was able to continue to avoid shin splints even at the same pace. All of this was done with regular running shoes (not barefoot-style).

I believe I am, but don't have great evidence to say one way or the other. I have very flat feet, and just got new orthotics/shoes actually. Any tips or helpful guides/drills on how to transition to mid-foot you would recommend?

I'd definitely be straying too far outside my wheelhouse to be comfortable with recommending how to transition, especially considering you have flat feet (I have regular arches). I can tell you that I watched this short vid and attempted to take its recommendations into account:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lhrae87EpWM

I haven't tried a treadmill. I recommend running 50-100m barefoot on solid ground like others have said and seeing how it compares / how your form changes.

I usually run 1-2 miles when I go out, not too much. Just enough to feel all the secondary leg muscles get fired up. Of course if you're new to barefoot running, people recommend starting with short distances.

On shin splints: one trigger was my poor running form. I would lunge my feet forward focusing on getting the longest stride, landing on the heel because my foot was in front of me. It didn't hurt my heel because traditional shoes are so padded there, but the physics/angles/forces of that form are bad. Instead, barefoot runners talk about "falling forward", which is exaggerated imo but gives you the cue that your feet should land under or behind your torso, not in front. This reduces the impact on the feet and legs. Barefoot running teaches this foot placement very quickly. Not sure if that's something you already do or not, but hope it helps.

EDIT - just saw your other comment. Go for a little barefoot run, maybe a few different times, and I think you'll quickly find out where your feet want to go. The "torso first, not feet first" mindset really helped me. (I'm flat footed too, and insoles didn't help me personally; not to yuck your yum, though. Maybe they'll be more comfortable for you)

Not OP, but a while back I ran weekly for months outside with no issues. It got hot, I ran two miles inside on a treadmill and got the first shin splints in my life. I hear from other runners that treadmills can hurt your form because you run differently on them than on solid ground. Try running off a treadmill and see if it helps.

I started running around this same time period because a coworker gifted me some Vibram five fingers. I would run 5ks regularly and never get hurt. Today, I own a pair of very cushy Brooks and I've been running 5ks with those.

I am typing this while icing my knees because I've developed a bad case of Runner's Knee. Causation? Possibly, but I'm more apt to blame being fifteen years older than I was.

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