Germany tightens travel advice to US after three citizens detained | Hacker News Reader

Germany tightens travel advice to US after three citizens detained

euronews.com

183 pointsbelter166 comments

I think the perception is the much bigger story here than the actual change in advice by German authorities. Traveling to the US (and other countries as well) always had the chance to trigger some overzealous enforcement and/or arbitrary rejection or detainment.

But the current US government is very strongly ramping up the rethoric and actions in that area, so the risk increased and will very likely increase further. That creates an enormous amount of uncertainty and this uncertainty will have effects. For some people (white, from western countries) this is probably still a very low risk, but anyone that fits the target profile of the new government is in much more danger.

I don't want to downplay this by pointing to perception, but in the end the perception is much more likely to affect the behaviour of visitors than the murky real change. Even at a low chance, people quite justifiably don't want to risk geting locked up in a cold cell for an arbitrary amount of time. And the perception matters much more here than the quantifiable risk of getting detained.

For the average European there was never a risk of getting detained for weeks in a prison facility where the lights are never off and your only comfort is an aluminium foil blanket.

It's not just rhetoric. I agree that the risk isn't particularly high, but it did seem to have gone from 'negligible' to 'possible'.

Yeah, I would have expected to get my ESTA denied, or denied entry at the border and shipped back. It would have never occured to me that I would be arrested for weeks. It's insane to me, it can't make economical sense, it must be cheaper to just deny entry than arresting people.

Unfortunately I need to travel to the US soon for a company (on?)off-site, and the thought is in the back of my mind. Getting off the plane and getting sent back would be annoying but whatever. Getting detained would be a nightmare.

We've seen a musician being detained and deported for reasons the immigration officer wouldn't share. https://dorseteye.com/im-so-proud-to-be-deported-from-the-us...

Is the company you have to travel for affected by the tariffs or retaliatory tariffs, or is a company with the same or very similar name in such a position?

One of the scariest aspects is them refusing to tell you what you did wrong. From that link

>...there was another unspecified issue that they refused to disclose. I can’t help but wonder whether my frequent, and less than flattering, public comments regarding their president and his administration played a role...

So it's not just following set rules. Maybe you tweeted Trump is a jerk once and they checked your twitter? Or maybe not. If they won't tell you how can you know?

I thought one of the motivations is that its all privatize. so anyone getting detained is money in the pocket for the company doing the detaining once some official indicates a person may need to be detained.

The US pays private prisons per prison, not per prisoner. So it looks bad if XYZ agency is paying for a prison with empty beds. The incentive/political optics is to fill those beds. Something resource utilization rates something something.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Detention_Center "In October 2015, the GEO Group renewed a ten-year contract with ICE.[11] The contract pays GEO for almost 1,200 beds daily, regardless if they are used."

It certainly would be cheaper, but then how would the people running the arbitrary detention centers get paid?

Well, cheaper for whom? Many of the "detention centers" are run by private companies for-profit. And many of the border agents aren't concerned with cost, but "doing their job" or political agendas.

> It's insane to me, it can't make economical sense, it must be cheaper to just deny entry than arresting people.

Not if you run a for-profit private prison and get paid for nr of inmates X time of stay, then you want them to stay as long as possible and then some more, who is gonna complain anyway. Some subhumans with no rights?

US is properly fucked up in this regard for a very long time, private prisons owners were actively campaigning against decriminalization of marihuana for a long time to not lose revenue. The fact that part of their revenue is ruining people's lives en masse and for good (good luck getting any normal job in US with prison conviction, for ie having 2 joints on you in bible belt states) is just an insignificant detail.

> It's insane to me, it can't make economical sense, it must be cheaper to just deny entry than arresting people.

It's absolutely cheaper but GEO Group and CoreCivic make more money by imprisoning people for longer, so longer they stay in their private prisons.

It's a grift, upending people's lives to make a buck, the American way...

> it must be cheaper to just deny entry than arresting people.

The cruelty is the point.

The real story is that Europeans and Canadians have been downgraded from "white country" immigration treatment to the "barely human scum" treatment previously reserved for the southern border. Note that that was bipartisan, as well.

> Unfortunately I need to travel to the US soon for a company (on?)off-site

Double-check the rules for working under an ESTA.

> Double-check the rules for working under an ESTA.

This cannot be emphasized too strongly. Never give a border guard the idea that you’re going to do something your paperwork doesn’t permit. Don’t hint that money might be earned unless you have a work permit. Don’t let anything expire, and be very careful when traveling with renew soon documents. Err on the side of caution with all interactions. All of these issues are not new and not us-specific.

And check how the laws of the country you’re trying to enter differ from your own. For example, a drunk driving conviction is quite serious in Canada but I don’t think the US cares?

ESTAs (at least those given to EU persons; I'm not sure if there are other variants) allow for business travel, that is, essentially, meetings. So _should_ be fine for onsites, you'd think, though who knows with the current lunatic in charge, rules mean nothing anymore, etc.

Yeah this was my thought as well. Here in the Netherlands we don't treat all foreigners equal, nobody is going to treat a Japanese tourist the same as a refugee from Mali. It would be utterly insane. What the hell is going on in America?!

I don’t think many white people truly understand what it’s like to be a minority trying to travel to the United States.

As a personal anecdote, my family and I have been naturalized Canadian citizens for over a decade. We travel frequently on our Canadian passports and rarely encounter issues visiting the EU or UK is usually smooth and pleasant. But the U.S.? That’s a very different story.

Every time we try to cross the border, we’re pulled aside for additional questioning. Our belongings are thoroughly searched, and the process often takes hours, causing us to miss flights or arrive late.

Why? Because the country of birth listed on our passports is an Islamic country.

None of us have returned there in years. I don’t even follow Islam, I’m a Christian. And yet, U.S. officers repeatedly question me about my intentions, sometimes quoting verses from the Quran, as if I’m part of a terrorist organization. Then they seemingly get offended when I reply with "I don't know which year Mohammad was born, I'm not a Muslim."

The experience is deeply dehumanizing. From the holding area, we watch white travelers breeze through with a smile and a passport flash, while we’re treated with suspicion and delay.

For the longest time, no one seemed to care about this kind of treatment until it started affecting Europeans. Suddenly, it’s headline news. Sadly, issues like these often go ignored until they impact white Westerners or their government decides they matter. As an example, look at Gaza, which has been suffering for decades with barely a whisper until the West turned its attention briefly.

All that said, I’m genuinely glad this conversation is finally happening. And despite everything, I have nothing but love for the American people. They’re incredibly kind, and the U.S. is home to some of the most breathtaking nature I’ve ever seen. Which is why, despite the above, I am always eager to travel there.

You have your birthplace stated on your passport?

EDIT I just checked and yes indeed. This is strange, the kind of information that does not really makes sense to assert that you are the actual owner of the document

I know, it's so bizarre. It's like the US suffered a major terrorist attack by people from Islamic countries or something.

hard to imagine a comment like this isn’t followed by “though that was an inside job…” :)

one time as a kid, I got beaten the shit out of this white christian kid in my neighborhood, since then I do not allow any white christian people anywhere near me, not taking any chances

So did France, yet they are not as overzealous?

> For the average European

Depends how old you are, I guess:

- The Palmer Raids (1919-20) - WW2 internment and deportation (1942-45) - McCarthy era (all of the 50s) - Present day

Each one seems to have deported random people. Many of whom did nothing wrong.

And honorable mention:

- Fallout from the Iranian hostage crisis (1979-81)

That last one didn't involve Europeans, per se, but it did deport a lot of innocent people. And for a bonus, here's the ~30yr pattern of anti-immigration:

- Immigration Act of 1924 - Operation Wetback of 1954 - Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 - Present day

These things have _always_ happened here. And some of them even follow a pattern.

Edit: Sorry for the formatting.

Are we still pretending that Guantanamo Bay never existed or that the US didn't randomly accuse people all over the world of terrorism and imprison them without a shred of evidence?

Those generally affected Muslims, so Europeans generally didn't have incentive to care.

When you wonder why people behave in a certain way, then thinking deeper about what their incentives are will often give the answer. Incentives, incentives, incentives.

Qoute from one of the cases that triggered the warning:

> Senior described Schmidt being “violently interrogated” at Logan Airport for hours, and being stripped naked, put in a cold shower by two officials, and being put back onto a chair.

Source: https://www.nhpr.org/nh-news/2025-03-14/green-card-holder-fr...

> For the average European there was never a risk of getting detained for weeks in a prison facility where the lights are never off and your only comfort is an aluminium foil blanket.

Maybe I'm too old, but i clearly remember that, some years ago, US did a lot of phone searches at its border and rejected or detained people based on what they found in the social media profile of the victim.

Not for weeks, but I was 'detained' for 24 hrs and then escorted in handcuffs to a plane back to Germany about 20 years ago (2002 or 2003 IIRC) for a 2 week overstay in 1998 (and since then I've been kicked out of the visa waiver program and on each followup visit interrogated in a backroom each time I wanted to enter the US for visiting GDC or E3 (basically 2hrs waiting time for 5 minutes of pointless questions and staring at my visa and passport) - I've since given up trying to travel to the US, it's just too much hassle.

And from the reports, a lack of rights for detainees to reach out faster to their relative, lawyer or just a translator. Due process is out the window, what the King says is law. It sounds cynic, but with many detentions centers run by private operators, and expanding[1], there's just no interest for those companies to get rid of their guests quickly. Why won't they get every detained person before a judge within 24 hours, especially if they are move to another state? Is paying corporations for more beds really the preferred solution over appointing more immigration judges?

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/07/us/politics/private-priso...

How is this a perception issue? It’s a real issue.

Even if the chances of getting detained on bullshit charges are slim, the behavior of the government is now so erratic and hostile that people who care will actively avoid going to the US. And for what exactly? Does anyone still wonder? Or do they just accept that the government constantly does stupid things for no real reason?

If my country behaved like the US for just one hour, the press would find enough scandals to talk about for a year. But the US manages to make the press move on to the next scandal. And the next. And so on.

It's both. But the real issue also existed before, they just turned it up to 11 and will likely go much further.

I don't want to downplay this, the point I was trying to make is that the perception will have a much bigger effect now independent of how likely it is for each person to be actually affected. And the perception includes the expected further escalation by the current US government.

There's a lot of issues with how the US handles immigration (and other countries as well). It's essentially a lawless zone where you're completely at the mercy of the US authorities. But even if that isn't new, the rethoric and aggressive actions by the new government will make this a lot worse.

You're both right. It was an issue before. It's an issue now too.

It might even be less of an issue now, practically, because of budget cuts.

But it will be perceived as a bigger issue than whatever the reality is because of the rhetoric.

Incidentally, when the ICE deportations started, the heated rhetoric was an explicit part of the strategy to spook people into "self-deporting".

I have no idea if this worked or not, but I believe the reason was due to not having enough budget or staff to do the scale of deportations that the administration wanted to do.

Next year it will be rated electoral autocracy instead of democracy if nothing changes.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7486317

Can you show these numbers are significantly higher than the previous years' average? If you can't then it's perception

Too early for stats I think. But yeah, keep on denying the light of the sun.

If it was the "light of the sun" you wouldn't have to "think" and there would be stats.

Stats coming from ICE itself would probably be cooked.

https://prismreports.org/2024/10/31/ice-has-been-lying-about...

I’ll wait for stats coming from the EU or my own government.

Even if you cannot prove it doesn't mean it is necessarily perception. Just because one cannot prove something, doesn't mean it's not real. Can you prove the numbers haven't risen? The main issue is the arbitrary detention. Getting turned away at the border and taking the next flight home is one thing, but getting locked up seems scary.

If you cannot prove it and yet you make the claim then it means your claim stems from perception. It doesn't mean what you're claiming is not true.

You claim it’s a perception issue. We say it doesn’t matter if it’s perception. Even one wrongful detention is too much. And people should avoid going to the US in this climate. My past tweets would probably be enough to get me detained.

Am I sure about that? No.

Can anyone be sure nowadays?

Is that just perception? Maybe. Will I avoid going to the US anyway? Yes.

If you’re still looking for a trend, here’s one: We don’t trust the US anymore. And there’s nothing their government does or says to reassure us.

It's rare enough that when it happens it makes the news in the citizen's country, so having several in quick succession like this is immediately noticed and acted upon.

Train derailments were all the rage on the right a couple of years ago even though their numbers were in the norm.

I don't see how that relates to what I said and I don't know why you go political with "on the right". I'm not american, and this conversation is clearly about how non american countries see the situation, and for us being detained that way is not a left or right wing political wish or dream or nightmare, it's just a "does it happen in that country or not".

And as an aside, if you think train crash are not a matter worth talking about, or that they're political, again .. That's a hell of a point of view that I don't share.

>it's just a "does it happen in that country or not".

If your threshold is "it happens > 0 amount of times" then it has happened before to Europeans to face detention by the ICE

>if you think train crash are not a matter worth talking about, or that they're political

that's a big and unwarrented "if"

I'm honestly not sure what or why you are arguing, if you say it happened before then yes no one said the contrary, several countries are now saying the threshold to go from "a bit longer interrogation" to "straight up detention like a criminal" has become much lower and thus we are much more likely to be impacted, and if you disagree with that when then again it doesn't really matter because it's a travel advice by a non US gov to their non US citizen based on their evaluation, feelings and online rhetoric don't matter into that, though you are of course free of having your own opinion

What is your country? Curious to see its border laws to see if I can be denied entry or deported if I break the law, which is clearly erratic and hostile behavior.

People are now targeted for speech, not for breaking the law. Open your eyes. The US is becoming like Russia, China and Turkey.

It's definitely the perception.

I'm originally from Brazil and have Swedish citizenship, last time I traveled with a stopover the USA I had a ESTA while completely forgetting I still had a valid visa on my Brazilian passport, going through immigration they caught up to that and asked me why I had 2 visas to the USA. I had to explain that while the immigration officer went on grilling me for reasons, I was just passing by the USA en route to visit family in Brazil, and it already made me quite uncomfortable.

Nowadays I have no idea if they would have detained me because it looked fishy to some immigration officer, at that time I was expecting I just wouldn't make the second leg of the flight and would be sent back to the EU, right now I won't ever chance passing by the USA simply because I have no idea what would happen.

I'm from South America, already a target to ICE/CBP, my B-2 expired and I would use ESTA instead, will that trigger something? No idea, I won't ever play my luck with that question in my head.

White, from Canada, and even female: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/19/canadian-det...

What a horrific ordeal, and the Latin American women she met are having worse time. The worst of it is the "just following orders" robots (the foot soldiers of fascistic 1940s say hello) having no answers to her question of "How long will I be here?".

I wonder how it'll end. Trump/MAGA/Project 2025 can turn the country into a police state (Russia-style) with even more rigged elections (Russia-style) and the populace will probably just submit (and about 50% will defend it, some of them because of ego protection (1)). They are already ignoring judges' orders, basically saying "What are you going to do about it?".

Will someone in the military lead a batallion of tanks on Washington DC?

1) https://www.technicianonline.com/opinion/opinion-admit-you-r...

The jails (“detention centers”) she was held in are privately run, so they’re incentivized to hold people and ignore due process.

https://newjerseymonitor.com/2025/02/27/ice-plans-massive-ne...

https://www.thecity.nyc/2025/02/27/ice-immigrant-detention-n...

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2025/0...

Being dispassionate about this: The incentives (reward vs loss) is no different from “asset forfeiture”.

> White, from Canada, and even female: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/19/canadian-det...

... who tried to enter from Mexico after being denied entry from Canada instead of resolving the issue with the embassy as she was told. Plus some more sketchy shit.

TFA is light on details about the circumstances of the three Germans' detention but considering that the German ministry is basically telling people to not violate their visas or lie on their application it doesn't sound like they just had bad luck without doing anything wrong.

> ... who tried to enter from Mexico after being denied entry from Canada instead of resolving the issue with the embassy as she was told. Plus some more sketchy shit.

Let's establish a timeline...

- She applied for a visa, and was denied.

- She applied again, went to the Mexican border because that's close to her immigration's lawyer office, and was allowed entry.

- At some point, she tried to enter the country, and the border guard thinks the above was shady (and you're accepting this guard's judgement. A lawyer would ask "What law did she break?").

- A week or 2 ago, she applied again, she went to the Mexican border for the same reason as above. Why is that sketchy? Immigration checkpoints should work the same anywhere, they're all connected anyway.

- At this point she's told she should've gone to a consulate to fix the problem. She's denied entry at the border and she looks for flights home.

- A few moments later she's arrested for who knows what and detained for an inderteminate amount of time.

- 3 days later, not knowing how long she'll be detained, someone tells her "be prepared for months.".

I get that asking for accountability from a unaccountable bureaucrats working in a corrupt police state is a moot point, but what law did she break that justified her detainment? Not knowing she should've gone to a consulate? Thinking there's some exploit in the system that different borders have different rules instead of them being all connected, and should treat everyone equally? Oh, some "shady shit" is enough excuse for you?

OK, maybe what she wrote isn't the whole thing. Maybe the corrupt police state will issue a statement to fill in the gaps. Would I believe that corrupt police state?

The way the TN visa works is you are supposed to go to the border with your papers, and get adjudicated there.

Unless you aren't allowed to re-apply after one denial (which I don't believe to be the case), it doesn't matter which border control point she went to for her return visit.

And unless the overton window has shifted into actual full fascism last week, being turned away at a border checkpoint is not grounds for a multi-week/month imprisonment.

But I suppose you can excuse any barbarity with 'well the victim was probably sketchy'.

good points regarding the Canadian. For the Germans: I don't believe that the statements from the ministry are indicative of the three individual cases. Regarding one case, I read in an interview with him that he was detained because his English was poor: He said he "lived" in the USA when he actually meant to say he was just visiting there. That was enough to incarcerate him. Sure, he probably came across as a bit sketchy anyway because his fiancée is American and they have a long-distance relationship, but those are not valid reasons to treat him like that.

The military will only carry out a coup if there is a legitimate opposing nexus of political power for it to rally behind, and there isn't one.

That's not a sufficient condition, by the way, but it is a necessary one.

The establishment Dems should be fighting like hell to delegitinize this shitshow, instead of rolling over like lapdogs. I guess the donors are happy with the outcome, and I have to assume that so are they.

I really don't understand the Dems (dubbed Vichy Dems now). Sure legistatively they've got no power now, and they're probably waiting for the 2026 mid-terms campaign to start yelling, but yeah they appear to be rolling over. Is it because the voters have really really short memories? Is it because you don't interrupt the enemy while they're making a mistake?

Maybe they're yelling, but the cowered media (hello Jeff, hello Sinclair Media, hello ABC surrender-monkeys paying Trump settlement money 1)) and the places people now get news from (owned by the Supreme Imbecile, Zuck, and "Thank you President Trump for our ressurection" TikTok) are just not covering it.

If I cared more, I'd make a website called Department of Lies (since the regime defines what they're doing as the truth) and catalog all the actions of the regime, and how they're illegal.

1) https://www.politico.com/news/2024/12/14/trump-abc-stephanop...

Edit to add: maybe the Dems are afraid of violence, the Imbecile Nazi (aka Proud Boys) are pardoned and can roam free, what's stopping them from physical violence against loud and promiment voices (and their children). Even if local police arrest them, the top of the regime can say "Let them go.". Ah, fucking despotic nation...

>If I cared more, I'd make a website called Department of Lies (since the regime defines what they're doing as the truth) and catalog all the actions of the regime, and how they're illegal.

https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/

The main party—the same one that pushed Sanders out early instead of letting the primary take its course—is woefully out of touch.

How is it that a non-white, middle-aged, moderate liberal in the NYC tristate better able to understand the problems than our Democrat politicians?

And it doesn’t help that the most vocal liberals are also missing the forest for the trees.

Just trying say to put the brakes in some of the trans rights (kids) and the most excessive parts of DEI labels me as “conservative” and shutdown on any discourse. Meanwhile the problems facing the larger, 10x middle-ground population that got Trump elected, is ignored.

Yes, the issue is one of rhetoric but it’s also the fact that border officers in most countries are afforded a ridiculous amount of power relative to their education/training/ability, and for a certain personality type in that job (I think we all know who I’m talking about) it becomes an interaction with a mini-Stalin.

This isn’t a new problem, and I don’t know how to solve it other than replace border agents with computers.

The US media’s love of hysterical rhetoric (on both sides) doesn’t help either, since constantly pushing these wild narratives in media emboldens these mini-dictator personality types to do really dumb things.

The both sides argument is nonsense. We really need to stop playing into that because it really isn't true and it benefits one side much more than the other by bringing everyone down to their level.

But it’s true.

The US has been ignoring its immigration laws for the last few decades (not just immigration, really).

All the while other countries routinely enforce their immigration laws. In Canada if you’re caught crossing the border illegally you will be deported. A number of people on student visa were recently told to “go home”. No nonsense enforcement, simply “follow the law”.

The US elects someone who decides to do the same and the media treats it like the collapse of a democracy. In the US illegally? Deportation. Caught crossing the border illegally? Immediately turned around. Simple enforcement of the law.

It does help if one keeps in mind that countries often use these travel warnings politically - Germany is upset the US isn’t interested in continuing the Ukraine war so does a little jab with the border warning.

> hysterical rhetoric (on both sides)

This is simplistic dismissal of how people who accurately predicted how the US would get worse under Trump were described as hysterical. It's not symmetrical and anyone who thinks it is is delusional.

Saying “it would be worse under Trump” seems entirely subjective?

I mean if you want common sense immigration it actually “got better”?

As Europeans look upon what is happening in the USA and think "that could not happen here..."

Please be aware that what happened in the USA was largely a product of Fox News (News Corp.)

While still in their nascent forms, the EU equivalents are Axel Springer [0] and Euronews [1]. If what happened in the USA is to be avoided in the EU, then these extremely ideological news publishers must be tarred and feathered as soon as possible. Avoiding the path of the "post-truth" USA [2] is the greatest task of our time.

[0] https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/01/06/axel-springer-politico-... (Politico, Bild, and more!)

[1] https://www.lemonde.fr/en/economy/article/2024/04/11/orban-s... (Victor Orban)

[2] https://www.bc.edu/bc-web/sites/bc-magazine/summer-2020/feat...

Was actually planning to be at GDC this week & while there were other factors at play, the clincher was a feeling that there’s now a non-zero risk of getting caught up in some serious nightmare scenario like this. Seemed pretty self evident that the new administration’s rhetoric even a couple of months ago was paving the way to fascist authoritarianism & I don’t see that changing any time soon.

Tbh, even having a post like this in my user history is apparently the sort of thing that could cause complications at the border! So much for “free speech absolutism”. Makes me wonder how many others will stay silent to minimise that risk & whether that’ll lead to an illusion of support for these policies…

It’s the kind of thing I think about before going to China or if I were to visit NKorea. But hasn’t this possibility of hardcore border harassment been a feature of visiting the land of the free (the US that is) for a while now? Phones confiscated and inspected etc..

I suppose so. There have always been stories of those kinds of things, but from the outside looking in, this definitely _feels_ different. Perhaps it's the privilege of my pigment but in the past I've had little issue the handful of times I've travelled across the pond & felt like if anything did escalate it'd eventually make its way to someone reasonable. Now...? Well I guess it just feels like "reasonableness" isn't exactly being projected as a valued characteristic at any level in the current chain of authority.

Is there a newsletter for the games you release?

Not really. I did set up a blog at biggles.games a while back but haven’t been actively updating it for quite a while & there’s nothing about our current project on there yet… probably time to do an update tbh!!

Everything you ever say online can and eventually will be used against you. No reason to tie your real identity into any online forum, including this one. Plenty of reasons against.

With AI pairing even semi-anonymous accounts to real people will become much easier over time.

Its fine if you never plan going to US but who knows the future right, also maybe they will eventually steer back from current direction... I am not holding my breath though. This is 50% of US population, consistently. Don't forget orange man didn't win previous elections only very narrowly, US folks on the ground don't give a nanofraction of a fuck about other nationalities and love this style of government. Out of 3 attempts, he won twice easily and 3rd time almost.

Stay the fuck away from US and any US product in literally any form, best advice for 96% of mankind currently.

I hear you.

Feels like not that long ago that this would have been considered a fringe paranoid perspective. I used to being an early adopter & getting my real name as a username before anyone else. Plus there was an ego thing back in the day of wanting to be a famous artist etc :-)

But I originally felt pride in showing up online authentically as myself rather than hiding behind anonymity. But I also realise that's a naive approach that only made sense in a more civilised time, perhaps, if even then... online discourse has become so toxic over the last decade that I've definitely self-censored & engaged less & less in the fear that anything I say could well come back to bite me.

> can and eventually will be used against you

That's the nasty thing, you might say something that actually would help you but they can just not use it later. Even a "Hail Trump" won't help me if they decide that I ought to be convicted.

This is travel advice I've been following for 25 years; because, as the article states, the rules are not new: Go through a port of entry that is not on US soil so being refused entry does not lead to incarceration and deportation. For people in the EU, Dublin is such a port of entry. Once on a plane from there, arrival in the US is the same as for a domestic flight.

That will only protect you from CBP.

ICE, who are currently the ones responsible for disappearing people will happily pick you up at a domestic arrival terminal.

Yes, but ICE can pick you at random (probably lawfully at least close to borders and international airports) while you always have to talk with CBP when entering the country. I personally have been avoiding travel to/through the US whenever possible just because some of the wrong people have been my friends and I happen to make my money with drugs - completely legal, helping to disseminate neutral information for free, but I would not want to discuss the finer details of ethics and drug policy with an underpaid officer of any police force.

The one thing that protects me somewhat from ICE is that I am white, in my forties, middle class and non-confontational when talking with officials. Or how a friend put it: No worries, you could be drinking a beer, smoking a joint and cops would laugh about your accent before telling to have a nice one.

Surely the US customs etc can still find a way to intimidate and screw you over.

My limited experience is that they either train their staff for it, or pick people who enjoy it. Or both.

The staff in Dublin aren't any better, but the consequences are: you're not on US soil, so you can't be detained or deported.

Sure, I got that. I more mean, does it really stop them from being assholes once you land? On paper perhaps, but in practice, I wouldn't bank on it.

The whole point of preclearance is that there is no border control on arrival into the US, you exit the airport like you were coming off a domestic flight.

What port of entry is not US soil? You can be detained in an US embassy and sent off somewhere. In fact the US doesn't even have a problem with kidnapping people in the middle of a European city sending them off for torture[1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_El-Masri

There are quite a few US preclearance facilities overseas. Dublin, Abu Dhabi, most major Canadian airports, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_border_precleara...

Any links that point to U.S. transgressions under presidents other than orange man are downvoted.

People would prefer even G.W. Bush, because at least he did proper neocon wars and was aligned with the establishment.

>Any links that point to U.S. transgressions under presidents other than orange man are downvoted. Not true.

"A criminal conviction in the United States, false information regarding the purpose of stay, or even a slight overstay of the visa upon entry or exit can lead to arrest, detention, and deportation upon entry or exit," information on the ministry's website now explicitly says.

That’s the updated guideline if you’re only reading titles

UK also. https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/britain-beefs-up-travel-war...

As I said before, I would not travel to the US unless my life depends on it.

I used to, interesting people there, but stopped when they brought in fingerprinting ...

Basically every country in the world fingerprints travelers upon arrival. The EU will start doing it later this year.

Then I won't go there either, meh

Okay. Good for you.

The USA hosts 35 million foreign visitors per year. These enforcement actions are absurd, but if you have your documents in order and are planing a normal tourist trip. you will be fine.

Even during normal times with proper documentation I was detained for a few hours. This is something completely different. I’ve seen deportations immediately for wrong documents. I haven’t seen 14 days of arbitrary detention before for correct documents.

I don’t think the latter is happening. The multi-day detentions have all been related to actual immigration violations. Again, something I oppose very strongly but the notion your life will be severely negatively affected if you show up at the border as a normal tourist with normal travel documents is just incorrect. The worst thing that will happen is they send you home.

Well, then you're wrong. The latter is happening. It's the whole point of this thread but you seem confidently oblivious to it so I'll link a few.

Here's one: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/19/canadian-det...

More: https://thetrek.co/a-german-thru-hiker-has-been-detained-dep... https://www.10news.com/like-a-horror-movie-german-tourist-de... https://www.10news.com/news/team-10/it-is-like-jail-german-m...

I encourage you to read those articles!

I only linked you cases where people had valid legal visas. What are you expecting me to find?

Canadian entered to work without a valid visa, as the article states, her visa had been revoked in November and she was aware of this - she should have arranged a visa at an overseas consulate before crossing the border

German backpacker was detained for hours not days

German tattoo artist arrived with a tourist visa with supplies for working

German fiancé — not a normal tourist case but yes this seems to have been a mistake by CPB

Again, the conditions and duration of detention are absurd but normal tourists are not being detained for days

> Canadian entered to work without a valid visa, as the article states, her visa had been revoked in November and she was aware of this - she should have arranged a visa at an overseas consulate before crossing the border

I'm not seeing that.

>After a long interrogation, the officer told me it seemed “shady” and that my visa hadn’t been properly processed. He claimed I also couldn’t work for a company in the US that made use of hemp – one of the beverage ingredients. He revoked my visa, and told me I could still work for the company from Canada

“ He revoked my visa, and told me I could still work for the company from Canada, but if I wanted to return to the US, I would need to reapply.”

The notion that you will be stabbed by a muslim in the tubes is also just incorrect, yet look at the public perception. It's the same in this case. The USA is degrading fast in the public opinion abroad and this will have consequences.

I'm not saying that's not what Americans want, maybe they do, but Trump is basically pissing away all leverage the US has with the rest of the free world. It's a shame.

I agree with you!

During the "good" times I was regularly chosen for random checks because I'm not white enough. I don't want to step in the US now.

They detained a green card holder who didn't break any laws and tortured him for weeks. They deported a French scientist over private speech after searching his phone. Why do you think all this is just going to be okay?

Tortured?

https://www.wmur.com/article/german-national-fabian-schmidt-...

Maybe you don't consider being violently interrogated to the point of being hospitalized torture?

Technically if you’re Venezuelan you could be sent to be tortured in El Salvador

Complain to the Venezuelan government for not accepting their citizens back.

It's a crime to abduct someone and sell them to a third country's prison that they have no connection to.

The situation is not good but let’s not lie. Green card holders returning from overseas have always been at high risk of encountering issues upon reentry. Overseas visitors working informally have likewise always risked detention and deportation. The gentleman in Boston was treated very badly, but his detention lasted hours, not days. Ordinary tourists are not being detained. I am a US Citizen who worked in the EU for some time and was detained upon initial arrival into the Schengen area while they checked into my work visa. The French scientist situation - very concerning, but they were just sent home. Hardly a reason to withhold a visit “unless your life depended on it”

This is disingenuous at best. It's not just anectodal evidence. People are concerned with the clear trend. Abuse of visitors is increasing indiscriminately, where will it stop?

I don't think permanent residents have ever faced this level of blatant harassment from any administration.

Well a researcher was denied entry because his messages against Trump were deemed terrorism https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/19/trump-musk-f...

I would be scared of that as a tourist, and I guess a lot of other people would be as well. Not just because of being denied entry but for the possible investigations one could face

I don't know what actually happened, but the current reporting is that he was turned back for other reasons:

U.S. Says Decision to Turn Back French Scientist Had Nothing to Do With Trump

The Department of Homeland Security said the academic was denied entry because he had 'confidential' data from an American lab, not because of his views on the president’s policies.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/21/world/europe/us-france-sc... (https://archive.is/z7mhZ)

Ok, that might put things into a reasonable perspective, but I do not know how much we can still trust government agencies right now

More accurately, people who travelled to the US in recent years were fine. The assumption that will continue to be the case is something every traveller needs to consider for themselves. It's not unreasonable for people to choose not to travel, just in case.

I agree with you. However, this is very different from “I would not travel to the US unless my life depends on it”

Hosted, past tense. There won't be 35 million visitors this year.

Honestly this seems to be a really short sighted view, none of the people that got arrested there really had reasonable grounds to be arrested, although I guess that legally they are "in the clear", but I am no expert, and this is high profile only because of the situation is absolutely absurd, and we are only two months in.

How many cases are not reported and as bad as this or worse? Am I willing to be gambling this?

What was wrong with the guy at Logan who they beat the shit out of?

Returning green card holder, who have always been subject to scrutiny. His treatment was absurd and unacceptable, but not a situation that would be faced by an ordinary tourist or business traveler.

I'm not sure I understand this.

A "green card" is a document showing permanent US residency. So it's something you "earn" after living lawfully in the US for several years.

Why would it require <<extra>> scrutiny compared to anyone else entering the US?

They always check to make sure you are not abandoning your residency

What is meant by "returning green card holder" exactly? Return from a holiday abroad outside of the USA, or leaving the USA to live elsewhere for some time with no obvious intent to return?

A US green card holder leaving the country and returning for any reason

A permanent resident getting beaten is not a concern to you? Tourists have even less rights in US view than those, your arguments seems lacking any logic.

I wanted to bring my family to US for few weeks vacation but fuck hell no, you don't go to places where they insult and attack you for no reason.

It’s a major concern for me! But not something that is affecting normal tourists

Nope.

https://thetrek.co/a-german-thru-hiker-has-been-detained-dep...

They didn’t even look at the documents she provided.

The current crackdown is absurd. But let’s be honest - this specific situation with the German backpacker is nothing new. If you show up at the border for an extended trip with no money, you are subject to extended examination. This happens all over the world.

But they didn’t examine the documents she provided.

How can you prove anything if they don’t look a your documents?

The hiker in question seems to be affiliated with the site hosting this article.

> Ed. note: Trek bloggers, including Ananias, are not paid to post their blogs on The Trek.

Yes, but they don’t get paid

It’s good advice to its own citizens and even business travelers have a right to worry.

Many years ago, I asked my wife why’d she give up her green card (or chance for a dual).

She didn’t want to deal with the hassle or a non-zero chance of getting rejected for renewal and getting deported. Her perspective was based on the ease or difficulty based on who was in power at the time.

I thought she was paranoid, but she was right and I was so very wrong.

If you’re not a citizen (and even if you are, but of the wrong “type”), things are looking worrisome.

> The country's foreign ministry clarified the updated guidance doesn’t constitute an official travel warning to the US.

Clickbait headline. Nothing has changed officially.

The change they have made suffices for “tightens travel advice”. Not everything has to be an official warning.

> "A criminal conviction in the United States, false information regarding the purpose of stay, or even a slight overstay of the visa upon entry or exit can lead to arrest, detention, and deportation upon entry or exit," information on the ministry's website now explicitly says.

Everything has changed in practice, when people are detained at the border because they posted something on social media which was critical of Trump, in a country which prides itself on having "freedom of speech" in the constitution. When denial of entry means weeks in detention rather than an expedient flight back to where you came from. When going to speak at a conference can get you detained for violating a visa which has always been fine for that before. When people with green cards are getting arrested and sent for deportation... everything has changed.

That is incorrect!

https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/de/reiseundsicherheit/usaver...

Clickbait comment - the headline correctly states that guidance has been tightened.

The US needs:

(1) To be strict and strong on illegal immigration.

(2) To be welcoming, courteous, gracious, flexible, understanding, and helpful otherwise.

"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Unhindered immigration was part of the recipe of success for approx. 92% of the lifetime of the US. What changed?

> Unhindered immigration was part of the recipe of success for approx. 92% of the lifetime of the US. What changed?

They got extra-greedy and fascist.

That's not how it works.

The system is designed that everyone is suspected of wanting to overstay their welcome in God's Most Graciously Developed Country in the World. Even funny scenarios where they do that to people coming from Switzerland or the like :-)

I'm not sure how this works for American citizens, but almost every interaction with embassy personnel and definitely with personnel at airports and such, feels.

> God's Most Graciously Developed Country in the World

Its funny how far from truth this is. Go and compare better parts of US with with Switzerland for example. Now compare worse parts of both. Literally any aspect - cleaniness, nature, society, personal freedom, criminality, development, public transport, access to education, healthcare and so on and on.

And here I was, thinking the funny capitalization and the weird and over the top title would be enough to signal sarcasm :-)

Having to clarify that it's not a warning is a warning.

It's amazing how one out of control wanna-be-dictator can destroy the reputation of the USA in weeks and half the country doesn't care, although I suspect will care when the long term implications inevitably happen to _them_

Sorry for a noob question, but aren't the tourists from western european countries exactly who the country WANT to let in? Or is the USA against allowing even the Germans in?

The US wants some arbitrary violence against foreigners. This now includes Canadians as well as white Europeans. Because the frothing rage against immigrants has reached that level of blindness.

Also things like the (not new! present under Democrats!) border searches of social media for evidence of disloyalty.

The USA is allowing tourists from western European countries. They are not allowing "tourists" that they suspect of coming for other purposes e.g. to work without an appropriate visa.

You didnt understand, I was not saying they are not letting them in I am talking about their changed stance.

They also shouldn't ruin relations with their best neighbour along their longest land border. It looks they are in a state of vicious writhe "WE against THEM".

For the first time those border guards are equally racist :P

Weird thing was that one time USA had Finnish-speaking customs officer at US-Mexico border. Reason was that Finnish Passport was printed or sold in Russia en mass.

Russian cannot pronounce any of the vowels in "HYVÄÄ PÄIVÄÄ". That is what the American Copper said and I was momentarily stunned speechless and some tension was observable, but I then answered appropriately and the immigration officer's interview was over.

The Foreign Ministry of Finland issued an advisory that ESTA and visa rules have been changed to require that the gender entered must be the assigned-at-birth one (for the obvious discriminatory reasons). If you current travel documents don’t match that, well, good luck.

(Edit: Heh, apparently this comment is downvoted for stating facts.)

Absolutely. Trans people should absolutely not consider travel to the USA at the moment.

Conversely, I doubt anyone has any idea what Germany does, least of all the Germans. PACER gives us a glimpse into the actual US government practices, but we don't even get a glimpse into actual German practices. Same goes for the UK and other large European countries. At most you get some, but probably not even all, of their highest court decisions, not including things like the underlying case documents.

Ignorance is bliss, so Europe must be a blissful place where nothing bad happens lol.

And even that doesn’t protect you

https://thetrek.co/a-german-thru-hiker-has-been-detained-dep...

Trump talked about "Shithole Countrys" on 1/12/2018. I am sure he talked about the future of the USA

Germany is joining that list by destroying their economy to satisfy those who will never be satisfied with Germans.

I used to think that letting my foreign affairs ministry know I was travelling was BS. But 100% I will be doing that for my next trip to the USA.

Why planning a trip to the USA? It's like voluntarily visiting Mordor. I wouldn't be surprised if the next tourists end up in Guantanamo Bay ^^

Still have many friends in the USA!

Maybe they should visit you first? But sure, there are still many reasons to visit the US, but it wouldn't be a nice flight if you imagine sitting in an airplane for 12 hours thinking about spending your holiday there as planned or ending up in jail and being tortured...

Because it's better than your country

You should try traveling to Singapore illegally and breaking the laws there. See how "BS" your own countries policies are.

Oh you mean that time that my friend hadn’t filled out an arrival form and the immigration department at the airport helped him fill it out?

Reply on news.ycombinator.com