Chibi: PNG-tuber application made in Rust | Hacker News Reader

Chibi: PNG-tuber application made in Rust

github.com

So this seems to switch between two images (one with mouth open and one with mouth closed) depending on the microphone volume. That's pretty primitive since most VTubing apps attempt to do some kind of lip sync or model the lip movement in some way.

It looks cool but I don't really know what it is/does.

What is a PNG tuber?

A video would help.

It's for streaming on platforms like YouTube or Twitch, usually when streaming games or doing art. Instead of using a webcam to show yourself (mostly in a small overlay in a corner), you show a PNG image of yourself or an avatar. To give these static images for variety, you can change them based on voice input (i.e. as if the PNG was talking), or emotions like laughing. Related: V-Tubers which use 3D models or more intricate methods like motion capturing to animate a virtual version of themselves.

So... an avatar.

Why must people churn out an endless parade of non-descriptive BS, when we already have the necessary words? Depressing.

See "do not post shallow dismissals to HN" rule.

Etymology is youtuber -> virtual youtuber (Kizuna Ai et al) using motion tracked 3D models -> shorten to vtuber -> people develop 2D models as cost reduction -> even further cost reduction by just representing yourself with a static image -> "pngtuber".

It also places things in a cultural context, like most language. Nobody would describe a news broadcast with a static image of the news anchor as a "pngtuber" even if technically it's similar.

How about "do not post meaningless titles?"

Pointing out intentional obscurity that degrades the usefulness of headlines is not "shallow dismissal." But thanks for the citation, hall monitor.

nitpicking but etymology isn't exactly what you think it is, what you did is explaining how a slang came to be, which is not etymology.

Anyway, according to your definition Max Headroom should be regarded as a virtual Television host or a "Vhost", except a host is a host, so a vtuber is just a youtuber and a youtuber is just a host.

> Nobody would describe a news broadcast with a static image of the news anchor as a "pngtuber" even if technically it's similar

exactly the point: a host is a host, an anchor is an anchor, that's why nobody would use "pngtuber" for "a news broadcast with a static image of the news anchor" because we already have a name for that that is good enough and generic enough to be understandable by anybody.

Instead now we got terms that are so specific that are useless in any general sense

and that's why etymology doesn't fit here, the word pngtuber is not "in the language" it's a slang and it wants to stay like that, if it eventually reaches mainstream status, pngtubers will start calling themselves jpeg2000vimeoers to separate themselves from the peasants

p.s. anyway this is nothing new, it's just a new name for something old, there was a time when internet and the computing devices in general were very limited resource wise and you had to do sh*t like this because it was the only way to do it.

Because that's how language works. vtuber/pngtuber describe a specific form of avatar, and people aren't gonna say 'they're a streamer that uses a 2D reactively animated animator' when they can say 'they're a pngtuber' and be perfectly well understood by the audience that is actually going to watch them instead of telling them to get off their lawn.

I may be using the terms incorrect, but in my understanding the pngtuber/vtuber is "the person doing the streaming/video", while the "avatar" refers to their representation in video. So saying "pngtuber is different term for avatar" would be like saying "person is a old term for selfi" right?

This discussion is complicated by the fact that a vtuber in character is identical with his avatar, so he will refer to his avatar in first person, e.g. "My camera broke, I'll be a png-tuber today."

The {png,v}tuber is the character. For many such streamers there's relatively little difference, but some of the bigger vtubers are actually a team of people who may take turns playing the character. (Think like Hatsune Miku)

>people aren't gonna say 'they're a streamer that uses a 2D reactively animated animator'

And? Nobody suggested that they should.

Because "avatar" isn't specific enough - some creators use fully dynamic rigged models with motion controls (those got a name of VTubers, because they started as Virtual YouTubers, see: Kizuna Ai), some use static images (so your traditional avatars, often being commissioned artwork of their OCs) to just fill the video feed while discussing topics with no relevant footage to show (often seen with content creators covering animation). PNG-tubers, being dynamically controlled static images, are in the middle of the two, and the term appeared somewhat naturally as a result. It has a very clear definition in the area it's being used in so I wouldn't call it non-descriptive honestly

If you're asserting that "avatar" doesn't account for animation, why not just say "animated avatar?" That would be immediately understood by all.

"vtuber" as a term describes both the avatar used by the person and the person themselves, so it's fairly specific. Avatar is much more general

> some creators use fully dynamic rigged models with motion controls

> some use static images

you mean avatars?

Yep, that is exactly why I added the "your traditional avatars" part to the static images

"an avatar" would also cover vtubers so png-tuber is actually more accurate here

So its a minimalist stop motion avatar using a specific image file format (for its ability to embed an alpha channel aka transparency I guess).

I prefer minimalist stop motion avatar to "PNG-Tuber" which sounds more like a slang description of the person that relias on said avatar variant.

Also avatars in early games were exactly that simple, so that name was here before.

It is wise to show at least a little deference to the field a term comes from. If you are not already deeply familiar with the subject matter, it is going to be hard to appreciate why particular names have caught on and why your own ideas might not be better. Immediate comprehensibility by outsiders with no prior familiarity is usually not the most important criterion.

> If you are not already deeply familiar with the subject matter, it is going to be hard to appreciate why particular names have caught on

and if you're introducing a niche term to a broader audience who might lack that context, in an asynchronous or static medium like an HN post or repo README, providing a definition that describes it in more widely used terms is a low-effort way to help unfamiliar people learn about it without forcing them to ask

Forcing people to ask or expecting them to perform a Web search for the meaningless jargon in your title is a cornerstone of HN posting.

As is complaining and "flagging" when someone calls it out.

> which sounds more like a slang description of the person

Pretty sure that's the intent, since it's a play on the name "vtuber", which is used as you describe.

They missed the chance for the gif/jiff discussions when they choosed png fir the prefix.

Never too late to make png/pnj one.

I don't think it's depressing—every generation has to find their own voice.

Not really. And "finding one's voice" doesn't require a galling display of ignorance of already-available words. Fun slang makes sense; but now we have an upwelling of slang that's just ignorant.

Here and there we see exceptions; take "rizz," for example. You can see that this comes from "charisma." OK, cool. But that's an outlier now.

It's more specific, and useful to the people using it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jargon

I agree. Since the submission seems to come from the package author themselves, a Show HN with some explanatory text would have been a more suitable alternative.

The edible root of the PNG plant.

Lil purple peruvian png tubers.

Nifty! I think the readme would benefit a lot from a short video of it doing its thing.

also have a look to VeadoTube Mini, same kind of software, alas closed source, it has idle animations and some other features for free https://olmewe.itch.io/veadotube-mini

Care to explain what this does? I don’t get it from the readme

It creates a "pngtuber" i.e. a static image vtuber. So you get a very limited amount of animation that is voice activated (basically animated discord speaking icons). It's used for streamers who are getting into vtubing but who can't yet afford a full vtubing rig (or the hardware to run it).

Thank you for answering. I needed the context in order to understand the code better (learning more rust).

What's vtubing?

The act of being a vtuber where vtuber means "virtual youtuber". Essentially youtubers or streamers in general who don't show their face but instead use an animated character model that is controlled by the user's face and/or body.

Some fancier vtubers use mocap suits for this but generally it's done with phone or desktop based face tracking software. That then maps to control inputs for manipulating the rigged model.

Examples:

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELjB3xWC3F0

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=944BE6_Brks

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxKH3EsI4dM

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e818LgnJ9rI

That last video was pretty interesting with the side-by-side, showing how things are re-calibrated, etc.

I figured that being a vtuber wasn't cheap, but that's a lot of (expensive looking) gear on top of the cost of the software, model, etc.

It really does depend. If you are doing full mocap with a rig it gets super expensive.

If you are doing basic 3d you more or less just need a VR setup with hand and feet tracking (still not cheap).

The cheapest hardware wise is your standard face tracking Live2D system. Pretty much just need an iphone (commonly used because they have good face tracking natively) or a webcam based face tracker.

The thing that really makes vtubing expensive is the cost of getting a model. If you aren't making it all yourself, those commissions for the design and then the rigging can very quickly go from a few thousand dollars to well over 10k.

And that video specifically is code miko. Her setup is one of the most expensive setups I've seen to be honest. She built the system herself however nowadays I think she pays a dedicated engineer to develop and maintain tooling for her bespoke setup. It's certainly not normal compared to most vtubers.

Hardware-wise most vtubers don't have much more than a good microphone, a gaming PC, and an iphone (which is much easier to achieve than the setup code miko has)

We have a word for that: avatar. And if it needs to be more specific: animated avatar.

Avatar is used synonymously with profile picture. If I said I had an "avatar," the last thing you would think of is a fully rigged and mocapped 2d/3d avatar. Notice how I had to qualify the word avatar there ("animated avatar" is hardly specific enough), hence why it has its own name: vtuber.

Get over it. You keep complaining about the word vtuber in this thread, but it's an extremely common and popular term with a whole damn industry behind it.

Did you complain about using the word avatar when you found out they weren't an actual embodiment of a god?

The term virtual youtuber comes from japanese for what it's worth. It's a loan word of a loan word. It's the term that is used.

And avatar is used in the space. They are "formally" called vtuber avatars or vtuber models. But the occupation/hobby is called vtubing and a person who uses them is a vtuber.

It's not that avatar isn't used. It's just not specific enough to what this is. vtubing rigs specifically aren't exactly general purpose. Some of them are and work as avatars that can be used with mocap or vrchat or whatever but a lot of them just aren't. A lot of them are "Live2D" which is a much more restricted type of model that is effectively various different transform and distortion effects on 2d images to give the perception of 3d motion.

Avatar covers a lot of things. Vtubers are a very specific subculture. They have avatars/models but to just call them avatars sells them quite a bit short of what they are specifically.

This comment, and the fact that you had to make this point twice (three times actually!) in this thread, is some real "old man yells at cloud" energy.

There is nuance to the term that "avatar" doesn't remotely capture. Language is ever-evolving. Keep up with the times, or ignore it. But yelling about going backwards is a waste for you to type and a waste for everyone to read.

> VTuber (Japanese: ブイチューバー, Hepburn: BuiChūbā) or virtual YouTuber (バーチャルユーチューバー, bācharu YūChūbā) is an online entertainer who uses a virtual avatar generated using computer graphics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_YouTuber

"a virtual avatar generated using computer graphics"

So... an avatar. Let's all agree not to use this stupid "VTuber" term.

“Vtuber” refers to the the virtual persona but also the real person behind the avatar, cf. “Youtuber”, “blogger”. And “avatar” is a much less specific and less informative term than “vtuber”. And anyway the street finds its own names for things.

Well, "the street" also huffs glue.

Yeah, no. We will continue calling it VTuber whether you like it or not. You're also wrong.

Except you haven't managed to show how. So... continue pushing ignorant blather.

Minimalist stop-motion-style avatar switching between two poses/images with an audio threshold level, giving the impression the avatar is talking.

It'd be cool if maybe there was a quick video demo!

Rust people as usual.

Compete disregard to prior art and blithe disregard to p's and q's when usurping other projects' names.

https://synthcode.com/wiki/chibi-scheme

I don't see how the two projects are related, so there shouldn't be any confusion. The project you linked isn't even called chibi, it's called chibi-scheme. If you suggest that we should not use common words in our project names if those words have been used before, we would've run out of names long ago.

The fact that most of the comments here are complaining about the imprecise etymology of terms like "vtuber" and "pngtuber" like old men yelling about kids these days with their hip-hop bebops and bad is good... is kind of hilarious. Absolutely no interesting conversation of any technical merit is to be found because people are using words wrong. This from a community that considers "enshittification" a precise and technical term of art.

Please no one tell this lot about "fleshtubers," they'll throw their soup in a rage.

It is as if some people hit a certain age and just want the entire world to stop evolving around them so that they can remain comfortable.

"Those damn kids and their newfangled words with context/nuance I don't understand!"

I'm old, and hate the bastardization of language when it's done out of ignorance, and particularly when it's done with some sort of manipulative agenda.

But this is a perfectly reasonable new term, describing an interesting subset of 'avatar' that has its own unique traits, and that is useful to distinguish from other types of avatar. Getting upset at that is like getting upset that somebody used the term 'recliner' instead of a 'chair'.

Thumbs up for putting a description in your title, contrary to some on here.

Thumbs down for using the meaningless term "PNG-tuber."

Just because you are out of the loop does not mean it’s meaningless — in some spaces the term is very straightforward and concise

I’d cut down the snark; this news aggregator is not built for you specifically, there will be many things that you are unaware of and I don't think they should be met with snark (there must be some reason why people invent a new term for it; in this case, it is to refer specifically to an animated avatar rigged to a face (or body) camera usually for a video streaming activity. Usually it is comprised of many moving components and assets, a PNGtuber works off a single PNG file, and thus easier/cheaper to get started with).

"In our niche hobby we call it a singlyjack, what is there not to understand?" and then it turns out a siglyjack is more or less the same as a regular flathead screwdriver just painted with a purple color.

I am not to judge slang here, but animating character pictures between two states has been around for ages. Especially in animation (before computers existed), but also more specific in games (e.g. early Metal Gear Solid games, Doom, come to mind).

When this image (animated or not) represents a person online it was called an avatar since the dawn of time. Indpenedent of wheter it was realistic or just depicted the insides of a gearbox.

Now I am not against niche slang terms at all, but if your description of what it is hinges on understanding the slang term that you used for the title, that is a self-referential loop that doesn't help anybody: Snaglyjack is a snaglyjack-tool made from hardened steel

So with a short non-niche-focused phrase like "a lofi two-state avatar, animated by audio levels" most people would be able to imagine what it is the thing is doing. If that is not the goal, that is okay, but since it was posted on HN..

But how can you tell how niche your hobby is from the perspective of some other hobby?

I would have assumed vtubing to be pretty mainstream already, at least after all the Gawr Gura memes.

On the other hand, I still click most Go threads on HN, expecting them to be about the board game...

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