Tesla falls after Commerce secretary recommends buying stock
axios.com
axios.com
It is falling because it is a bad stock with no ground in reality: it is clear that Tesla has lost all its positive momentum. When was the last time we heard about Tesla delivering something exciting?
Meanwhile, BYD just announced their 1000V platform this week, God's eye FSD for every car last month (and they are already selling those in China). On the other hand, Tesla has just been promising the world and delivering nothing but more promises and pushing deadlines.
Take that last demo they made in Universal Studios. Everything was faked, the robot was human-controlled, and the FSD was in a controlled environment with a human in the background, ready to intervene. Now look at that P/E. It sits at >100 in a company that is not growing anymore, 2x-3x more valuable than Toyota. You really can't justify it.
I agree, but I also think the full-throated nazi salutes on tv delivered a greater blow to Tesla's customer base than your comment implies.
(not to mention the building communications and mechanism to space travel monopoly. These things Plus the above are unfathomably evil villain bad)
Absolutely true, but it's only relatively recently that he's been actively and publicly participating in the effort to destroy the US.
These days, he targets entire classes of US Citizens (e.g. Federal employees) due to his deep-seated insecurities.
(Fucker is still invited to YC’s AI Startup School, by the way.)
[1]: https://www.yahoo.com/news/fact-check-musk-reposted-meme-120...
There's a visibility issue; that, and most of his antics, was largely only seen by Very Online people, but over the last few months the fact that he's stark raving mad has become increasingly obvious to the general public (via Nazi salutes etc).
Was that reference intentional? Well done either way.
I also don't appreciate that he's sheltering and excusing his behavior under self-diagnosed mental health umbrellas. That only harms the perception of those who legitimately have those conditions.
Yeah, I have very little time for the self-diagnoses of a guy who refuses to go to a psychologist, tbh.
Stocks go up and stocks go down and everyone tries to find a reason. It's just easy to find one for Tesla these days. The truth is it's selling off because the entire market is selling off, and the bigger the pump from 2020 till now, the bigger the drop is going to be. TSLA has to be one of the top 10 most overinflated stocks, so it's going to unwind in a similarly spectacular fashion. The actual fundamentals will come in to play later, when Elon's little high risk bet of joining the Trump administration blows up in his face spectacularly.
But with it's now negative CAGR, P/E should be in the range of 10 or so.
When will the board wake up? I guess they never will as his own relatives are board members.
He should never be allowed to head a company again after his performance with Twitter and tesla
By renaming Twitter, he erased the cultural shorthand of "tweeting," a level of brand entrenchment that most companies can only dream of attaining.
The problem is, punishment is exclusively up to their superiors. Which, here, is the President.
Kellyanne Conway did this in the first Trump admin. No real consequences then, either.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/14/us/politics/Kellyanne-Con...
> Federal ethics rules on conflicts of interest specifically exempt the president and vice president. But for any other executive branch employee, the rules prohibit using public office for personal gain, or “for the endorsement of any product, service or enterprise, or for the private gain of friends, relatives or persons with whom the employee is affiliated in a nongovernmental capacity.”
https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artII-S1-C7-1...
But you have your own eyes and brain and you know it is illegal. It is plainly illegal, which is why nobody had done it before this. They are doing illegal things because they are crooks.
They are trying to get you to give up and lose hope. Hacker News is far more of an echo chamber in that regards than other environments.
[1] https://extapps2.oge.gov/201/Presiden.nsf/PAS+Index/43644031...
The US is acting like a third-world country.
Proof on multiple levels that the primary skills of this administration are con artistry and fascism --- which are more or less the same .
The PE ratio of the typical auto manufacturer is around 10 or less.
GM, Ford, Toyota --- all less than 10.
The PE of Tesla is 115 --- and they sell fewer cars than any of the above.
By any reasonable measure for an auto manufacturer, Tesla is outrageously overpriced. And before someone drops Musk's line that Tesla is something other than an auto manufacturer, allow me to point out 90% of Tesla earnings come from the manufacture and sale of autos.
ETTD --- Everything Trump Touches Dies. Tesla is working to become the latest example.
I'll never forget how his Twitter mass-layoffs initiated that same practice to spread throughout the tech industry (yes, it was coming, but he did "cast the first stone").
For better or worse, what Elon Husk does today, the rest of the stock market does tomorrow.
Too late. Wall Street has been infected with MAGAtts.
The other day I read where some analyst said he maintained a "buy" rating on Tesla because he worried doing otherwise would hurt the administration's image.
If true, then the market will soon be an ouroboros.
likely true, as it will be even cheaper until it collapses. (in inflation adjusted dollars)
I've tried to not be cynical but it's bleedingly obvious that there are a group of Musk/Trump supporters here flagging these posts.
Various discussions claim that it's political (and thus "off topic") posts that are flooding HN but there has been very few appearing on the front page, even though they're sunk out of view these posts attract many upvotes and comments.
There are all sorts of off-topic and incidental posts on HN and that's always been the case. Now there is aggressive censorship of one type of post. Just skipping or hiding posts that you're not interested in is not enough apparently.
There is not much that can be done about it, dang has essentially shrugged, which is fine. But please lets not pretend its not happening and that it's not absolutely repugnant.
I only reference politics because it's other people's focus, or excuse for censoring.
there are like 3-5 of these a day
These stories typically drop off /news pretty quickly, but /active has loads and loads of them. I also seem to see flagged ones, which is probably down to my settings.
I've had a set of quick links to searches for topics I am interested in for quite a while, typically for the last 24H, sorted by time, usually comments. For instance, I have had a link to a search for "Musk in title" on my bar since the Twitter acquisition, which has made it a lot easier to see what actually gets flagged and what doesn't. Similarly, if you really want a pretty horrific set of opinions, a search for Hamas will reveal that there are plenty of vocal folks here okay with incinerating children.
On one hand, I understand that a lot of folks have a very specific idea about what they want to see on HN.
On the other hand, I'm mostly here because I want to get the opinions of "centrist" capitalists, VC folks, and aspiring tech folks about a wide range of cultural issues. I don't usually want to have those kinds of folks (who I believe are often exhibiting some kind of sociopathy) in my other social media feeds or, god forbid, meat-space life.
Anyhow, it's entirely possible to bend the site to ones' usage (it is a "hacking" space after all). There is much more on the site than what happens on the front page and it's much more useful to log in and see the flagged/dead content.
The front page is pretty ordinary most of the time because of uninteresting items, or interesting items have fallen off.
Of course the problem with flagging is it distorts what people see, or can see, since it essentially hides the topic (or at least burys it).
Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.
You should not be surprised when "mainstream" stories are flagged. Folks come to Hacker News for stuff they won't hear about on TV.
And when people doing regulation actions against Musk were fired.
Literal oligarchy happening out in the open, in front of our eyes.
Waiting for the delays for Austin robotaxi to be announced, then more red for Tesla.
Elon: "The robotaxis are working great!"
Press: "What about these 10 fatal accidents in the first week?"
Elon: "Cut the cameras, arrest that woman! If any news media reports this they'll be prosecuted, and I'll post your home address and where your kids go to school on X.".
NTSB: "We've been DOGE'ed so we have no information about any Tesla Robotaxi accidents. As far as we can see, 0 fatalities with Tesla cars!"
NTSB whisteblower: "Not mentioned is that they're being blindfolded so they can't see shit!".
Press release: "Austin city government has taken the option [totally not under duress] to use Tesla's robotaxis for transport of all government workers. The mayor said, reading from a scribbled note 'this will improve efficiency and save costs.'. The city will pay Tesla $50 million in the first year, increasing to $150 million in 5 years."
Stock market: "Sell, sell, sell!"
Elon: "These investors shorting TSLA are breaking the law and violating free speech. If they don't invest in TSLA we're going to send the IRS!"
"It's unbelievable that this guy's stock is this cheap. It'll never be this cheap again."
"I mean, who wouldn't invest in Elon Musk? You gotta be kidding me."
If you had mandatory voting (and a sane polling day) you’re likely have a better represented Congress and Senate.
Instead, you have Trump.
We vote on the weekend. We all go and buy democracy sausage and a drink for the local school we vote at and we respectfully queue up for a short time period and vote quietly. Nobody tries to arrest us for offering a water bottle to people in the queue.
We are kind of sane. I wish you guys could experience it!
There are/were active programs to manipulate representation even if people voted:
There are a of problems we need to fix. Mandatory voting doesn't seem to be the solution though.
If I ever run for office, this (plus replacing first-past-the-post) might be the entirety of my platform.
Every so often someone brings in their dachshunds and everyone comments on the democracy sausage dogs, and the local politicians all pose for a picture with them.
Another possible interpretation is Trump brought in a lot of uniformed voters. That group brings people who don’t care about policy or fall for his repeated lies or like his rhetorical style. It’s not about achieving good policy, but about feeling like you are winning a realty TV style game.
Bringing in more uninformed voters through mandatory voting, will exacerbate the treatment of policies and politics as entertainment. That evolution will attract worse candidates and generate worse policy outcomes.
The car commercial in front of the White House was hilarious though. At least there is some dark humor along with all the, well, actual darkness.
What the heck?!? Has a president ever done anything like this before?
The only good thing is that while the president was selling cars is that he wasn't doing any other boneheaded thing at that moment. Let's keep the president selling cars.
Edit: I meant the crashing valuation, not this particular news, apologies for the confusion. I do think that government officials promoting stocks is a terrible precedent to set.
I disagree with the downvotes but it is very close to distracting the actual issue at hand by dismissing the more minor issue which is the stock price movement.
“Why it matters: Cabinet secretaries don't typically recommend individual stocks, much less those linked to the president's closest adviser.”
wish the the engagement on here was generally more sophisticated.
To whoever downvoted this. I used to come to hacker news years ago and see 90% programming related things: Type system abuse, extreme common lisp code, libraries and tools. It was pretty much all tech debate all the time. The worst days would be 70% tech. Today thats a good day.
Nowadays theres a lot more californians being mad at elon, poetic eulogies, paid articles about "how to write good" or how "you should write even if people dont read it."
People will try to say it hasnt changed but it has changed. It is about half as tech related, and about 10 times as reactionary in the same way the rest of the internet has become more dumb.
You can be mad if you want, but everyone can see it, and thats why some people I know in real life are referring to hacker news as orange reddit in a denigrating way. Reading hacker news doesnt confer programming street cred like it did ten years ago. That isnt because im cynical, or want it to be true. It just is true.
I think this is still playing out.
Buying TSLA amidst this turmoil is clearly a bad investment
is there a rough graph for that?
thanks!
That won't matter much next time Tesla releases some innovation that is 1 or 2 levels better than the rest of the market.
Musk's companies are the epitome of "be so good they can't ignore you, even if they hate you".
In the meantime, BYD just announced an incredibly fast charge time on their new vehicles Tesla can’t match.
Usually when a company has done that 3 or 4 times in recent years, it's a safe bet they'll do it again
Autonomous driving, battery tech, charging connectors, OTA software updates for vehicles, "gigacasting" large vehicle components, wireless charging.
Battery tech is now old news - every car company is doing this and making huge leaps in battery tech. Charging connectors are a dime a dozen now - at least BYDs don’t have flaws like the Cyber Truck where the plug literally gets stuck in the Tesla and majes it immobile.
Most car manufacturers have OTA updates in various models of cars now.
Ever tried to repair a “gigacasted” car?
But you were talking about recent innovations, which haven’t been taken up by other car companies. Could you name some?
I can list the opposite of innovation in Tesla cars: unreliable cars, unsafe features throughout the cars, no LIDA sensors and only cameras, large numbers of fatalities involving self driving Teslas, problems with sticking brakes, poorly fitting trim, wheels falling off at speed, tow bars that literally snap off taking out the back of the car, suspension and drive axle failures… want me to go on?
I have not- Musk isn’t my ideological enemy nor my ideological tribe member.
When his companies do useful things that nobody else can do I call that innovation and invest in it.
When they don’t, I don’t.
I then asked you for recent innovations.
You supplied none.
I did supply you with examples of the opposite of innovation.
A lot of tech companies make no money at all for the first years or even a decade of their existence. This one decided to make some money, giving themselves a longer runway to do very hard things (like building gigantic automated factories that can build automated things that can build automated things).
You’re right that a company that sells cars is a car company. But investors tend to invest in future prospects, and Tesla’s future is not as a car company.
The adage goes, “you can be right or you can be rich”.
I’m not saying Tesla will succeed or even that it’s a good bet.
I’m saying there’s a valid investment thesis that posits P/E for Tesla is a poor metric.