Comment by maximusdrex | Hacker News Reader

Comment by maximusdrex | Hacker News Reader

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I truly don’t understand how these types of comments keep appearing under any discussion of apple’s blatantly anti-competitive behavior with messages. This doesn’t even make sense on technical grounds; it would be trivial to require such message passing to be encrypted/signed securely if that’s your real concern. After all, the Apple Watch does exist and does have these capabilities, so it’s clearly possible to do it and maintain the “security boundaries” you’re so concerned with. Then every single one of these comments inevitably turn towards spam messages which no longer even makes sense since iMessage has been filled with spam lately. I really don’t see how allowing smartwatch manufacturers to also interface with iMessage (in the same way Apple Watches do) will inevitably increase spam on the platform which can’t be detected/mitigated in other ways. I’d love to see some technically rigorous explanation for why apple can’t support any third-party anything instead of hand wringing about “security” with no real explanation but I have a feeling I’ll be waiting a long time.

It’s not just the transmission over Bluetooth. It’s the entirety of what happens with the message. Apple fully controls and trusts the code that’s running on the apple watch. But they have no control over what third parties do with all the data they can collect in notifications.

Bluetooth devices on iOS that display notifications already are getting more information than normal by simply even reading all notifications. Normal apps on iOS can’t do that, they have no reason to. This api was added because smart watches kinda need that functionality to be useful. I think it’s still locked behind a “this device will see all your stuff” permissions box.

I do think they should add in more iMessage/sms/replying capabilities to smart watches though. I think they are extremely hesitant to make it even easier to automate iMessages. iMessage spam is definitely increasing, but it’s NOT as prevalent as normal sms spam for instance. The barriers are much higher, and Apple can basically blacklist devices/appleIDs that send out too much spam, partly because they’ve kept iMessage so locked down.

Again there is no technical rigor behind these notions. Video providers didn’t like the idea of untrusted HDMI devices scraping video from DRM protected content so they came up with HDCP, which allows anyone to develop and certify solutions as trusted software/hardware. There’s no reason apple can’t do something similar, it doesn’t have to be completely open vs. completely closed. There are always alternative solutions to the problems that people think apple’s walled garden approach is solving; which makes it clear what the real purpose is.

True. But why? Why should Apple spend a bunch of money hardware certifying, and adding liability? There was a compelling reason to add HDCP -- content makers required it, and had criminal penalties as threats to go after infringement.

Apple doesn't need outside ecosystem builders here; what is the business reason for them to add process expense, risk, and possibly incorporate timelines from other vendors into their supply chain?

As the many comments in this thread indicate, lots of people seem to feel Apple "owes it" to the world to open up. Happily, there is a (more) open ecosystem available with Android for people who value that. I don't think the tradeoffs Apple makes are perfect for me as a consumer, but I prefer them to the Android tradeoffs, and I can always switch when I like.

I actually agree with that completely. I just want it to be clear that this is a conscious business decision that apple is making and not the result of technical challenges. I think the distinction is important because I don’t love the tradeoffs apple chose to make, but I continue to buy an iPhone because at the end of the day my phone is mostly about being social and it’s a frustrating experience trying to communicate with friends and family who all have iPhones which make interoperability with other messaging ecosystems frustrating. If iPhone RCS support worked as well as native messaging I’d switch to an android in a heartbeat.

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