Hacker News Reader

Comment by throwaway2037 | Hacker News Reader

throwaway2037

I assume you are hinting at 'int' is signed here? And, that signed overflow is UB in C? Real question: Ignoring what the ISO C language spec says, are there any modern hardware platforms (say: ARM64 and X86-64) that do not use two's complement to implement signed integers? I don't know any. As I understand, two's complement correctly supports overflow for signed arithmetic.

I might be old, but more than 10 years ago, hardly anyone talked about UB in C and C++ programming. In the last 10 years, it is all the rage, but seems to add very little to the conversation. For example, if you program C or C++ with the Win32 API, there are loads of weird UB-ish things that seem to work fine.

View on HN

> Ignoring what the ISO C language spec says, are there any modern hardware platforms (say: ARM64 and X86-64) that do not use two's complement to implement signed integers?

This is not how compilers work. Optimization happens based on language semantics, not on what platforms do.

At least in recent C++ standards, integers are defined as two’s complement. As a practical matter what hardware like that may still exist doesn’t have a modern C++ compiler, rendering it a moot point.

UB in C is often found where different real hardware architectures had incompatible behavior. Rather than biasing the language for or against different architectures they left it to the compiler to figure out how to optimize for the cases where instruction behavior diverge. This is still true on current architectures e.g. shift overflow behavior which is why shift overflow is UB.

AI rewrote to avoid undefined behavior:

  int average(int x, int y) {
    long sum = (long)x + y;
    if(sum > INT_MAX || sum < INT_MIN)
        return -1; // or any value that indicates an error/overflow
  
    return (int)(sum / 2);
  }

I’m not convinced that solution is much better. It can be improved to x/2 + y/2 (which still gives the wrong answer if both inputs are odd).

> long sum = (long)x + y;

There is no guarantee that sizeof(long) > sizeof(int), in fact the GNU libc documentation states that int and long have the same size on the majority of supported platforms.

https://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/html_node/Range-of-...

> return -1; // or any value that indicates an error/overflow

-1 is a perfectly valid average for various inputs. You could return the larger type to encode an error value that is not a valid output or just output the error and average in two distinct variables.

AI and C seem like a match made in hell.

> There is no guarantee that sizeof(long) > sizeof(int), in fact the GNU libc documentation states that int and long have the same size on the majority of supported platforms.

That used to be the case for 32-bit platforms, but most 64-bit platforms in which GNU libc runs use the LP64 model, which has 32-bit int and 64-bit long. That documentation seems to be a bit outdated.

(One notable 64-bit platform which uses 32-bit for both int and long is Microsoft Windows, but that's not one of the target platforms for GNU libc.)

I don't know why this answer was downvoted. It adds valuable information to this discussion. Yes, I know that someone already pointed out that sizeof(int) is not guaranteed on all platforms to be smaller than sizeof(long). Meh. Just change the type to long long, and it works well.

It literally returns a valid output value as an error.

An error value is valid output in both cases.

The code is unarguably wrong.

average(INT_MAX,INTMAX) should return INT_MAX, but it will get that wrong and return -1.

average(0,-2) should not return a special error-code value, but this code will do just that, making -1 an ambiguous output value.

Even its comment is wrong. We can see from the signature of the function that there can be no value that indicates an error, as every possible value of int may be a legitimate output value.

It's possible to implement this function in a portable and standard way though, along the lines of [0].

[0] https://stackoverflow.com/a/61711253/ (Disclosure: this is my code.)

Too late for me to edit: as josefx pointed out, it also fails to properly address the undefined behavior. The sums INT_MAX + INT_MAX and INT_MIN + INT_MIN may still overflow despite being done using the long type.

That won't occur on an 'LP64' platform, [0] but we should aim for proper portability and conformance to the C language standard.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/64-bit_computing#64-bit_data_m...

> Meh. Just change the type to long long, and it works well.

C libraries tend to support a lot of exotic platforms. zlib for example supports Unicos, where int, long int and long long int are all 64 bits large.

Copypasting a comment into an LLM, and then copypasting its response back is not a useful contribution to a discussion, especially without even checking to be sure it got the answer right. If I wanted to know what an LLM had to say, I can go ask it myself; I'm on HN because I want to know what people have to say.

I always downvote all AI-generated content regardless of whether it’s right or wrong, because I would like to discourage people from posting it.

We're about to see a huge uptick in bugs worldwide, aren't we?

Please stop posting AI-generated content to HN. It’s clear the majority of users hate it, given that it gets swiftly downvoted every time it’s posted.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com