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There's actually a much wider variety of music now than in the eighties/nineties. I was born in 1974, grew up on eighties music. Got into alternative music in the nineties. And so on. What was on the radio in the eighties was pretty bland mostly but with some notable exceptions. But there was nothing else on so you listened to it anyway.

These days I listen to both old and new music. And also some music that is older than me. My motto is that if it was worth listening to fifty years ago it probably still is. And if it was crap then, it probably still is.

There are a lot of new/young artists making music in the style of pretty much any style you can name happened in the past 60 years or so. I need to get over the "these kids are less than half my age" thing of course. But some of that stuff is pretty good. There's an enormous long tail of relatively obscure artists that simply did not exist in the eighties/nineties. Worth exploring.

Pop charts stopped mattering a long time ago. People don't buy lps, cds or singles. And those don't get played on the radio based on sales statistics. There's still some artists that get played on the radio obviously. But radio is for old people. Most kids have headphones connected to their phones, not a radio. They'll listen to whatever they want, whenever they want.

I went to see Kneecap yesterday (Irish mockumentary about a real band doing Irish Rap). Pretty decent music and fantastic movie. Obviously inspired by eighties/nineties hip hop.

That's pretty much what I mean. Everybody can micro-curate his musical consumption and stay within one niche if that's what he wants, which I think can be bad for music discovery because you aren't exposed to stuff you might unexpectedly like. You have to make an effort to get broad exposure.

Listening to the radio occasionally today, it seems like it is primed entirely for gen x. I’m not sure how many times they play Sublime a day now but its at least three time with three different songs on a few stations in LA county.

Seriously. 98.7 is playing the same music that dominated airplay 20 years ago. Their rotation now sounds the same as JackFM.

One week years ago I decided to listen to a hip-hop/pop station every day on my way to work. I like all kinds of music, including dance or pop or catchy rap. I wanted to discover some new high-energy music.

But after a week I wasn't disappointed; I was pissed off. Pissed off for all of the talented people who are obviously NOT getting heard, while airplay is wasted on craven trash. I discovered one catchy, clever song in that whole week: "Nothin' on You," by Bruno Mars & B.o.B.

Topping my shitlist from the week was Drake, with a discordant, no-rhythm, no-rhyme, no-talent mess that played mostly unrelated instrument noises over each other while Drake mumbled

   Baby you da best

   Baby you da best

   Baby you da best...

Depressing. Just depressing.

Your comment is interesting in various ways, but I want to focus on the idea that

Legitimate song structure = melody + chorus + bridge

Is there something about such a song structure that is somewhat universal or is it just so established in our culture that any song that doesn't have those elements sounds... impoverished? Are there other, alternative song structures that tend to produce satisfying music?

I'm not being dismissive; I'm legitimately interested in exploring this idea.

Any music theorist would tell you there’s no such thing as “legitimate song structure”. Verse/chorus/bridge is at most _common_ (though in no way legitimizing) at a very specific time in a very specific culture, there are plenty of counterexamples from the last 50 years.

If you’re interested in stuff like this, YouTube has approachable music theorists making good content. 12Tone is quite good.

I'm sure that's true, but I specifically referred to Western music found on music charts. Obviously I knew the assertion is wide open for attack on the "legitimacy" idea, but I think an objective analysis of hit-song structure would reveal trends that support the idea of optimal "catchiness."

Bohemian Rhapsody springs to mind. Most of Pink Floyd's The Wall. Yeah lots of famous rock stuff now I think of it. AC/DC Led Zeppelin.

Is it cheating to not use pop in the examples?

Takes a lot of effort to break the mold though!

You can find plenty of examples just from The Beatles

Springs to mind as what? A counter-example? If so, I would not agree.

Wikipedia:

> The song is highly unusual for a popular single in featuring no chorus, combining disparate musical styles, and containing lyrics which eschew conventional love-based narratives, and instead make allusions to murder and nihilism.[5]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemian_Rhapsody

Right... which means that it offers up numerous dramatically different sections that defy the the "press Play... mumble a while... press Stop" trend that I'm complaining about.

Making songs out of shorter different parts so they could be remembered easier is caused by attention span window, not a cultural thing.

Totally valid question, and I think that yes... there is a reason that our (or Western) song structure has evolved the way it has.

For some reason it is very appealing to the listener, and I think it's a combination of sonic qualities but also relief from repetition. And this is what's lacking from a lot of today's music.

Today we have what amounts to a loop where someone presses Play, mumbles over it for a period of time, and then presses Stop. There's no payoff.

I think one of first times I thought about this was listening to "Crazy in Love" by Beyonce. It has this big build-up that you think is going to go into a satisfying chorus... but it goes nowhere. Nowhere, for the whole song.

And that song is fairly dynamic by today's standards.

> It has this big build-up that you think is going to go into a satisfying chorus... but it goes nowhere.

I don't disagree in general, but that particular song is likely just due to the use of that rising horn sample from the original 1970 Chi-Lites song: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hm2YjDENPPU

That is indeed what I mean... but I don't think the source of the sample makes any difference.

I disagree. This song structure is cheap and mostly used for pop songs meant to be a catchy background. Many (most?) music pieces that could be called masterpieces don't follow such simplistic structure.

I'm not trying to be pretentious. I'm not a hardcore music fan, and most of the music I listen to nowadays has the classic verse/chorus structure (because it's catchy and ready to vibe on). But pretending it's the one correct way to make music is not right.

I'm only talking about pop music; that's what charts typically cover.

The equivalent charts from the 30s and 40s were often not verse/chorus/verse. Think “Somewhere Over The Rainbow” or “Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy”. There are repeated sections like choruses but the bones are often a 32 bar form with an AABA structure.

At least they had that. And a melody.

The expansion of ways that we consume media plays a role, but I don't think we've lost the sounds of an era, it's just that the hooks are now coming from a variety of sources.

"Badger Badger Badger" (and their kin) is likely to evoke a particular era in your memory.

In a similar way "Uh-oh uh-oh uh-oh" may possibly evoke a more recent era.

"Here comes the Hammer!" Wasn't sure if that was your last example, but that sprung to my mind immediately. If it wasn't, I'd be curious what song you were referencing.

I feel like as I get older, it takes me more time to find new music I enjoy. Perhaps it's oversaturation, or the way that apps and media are set to display those who pay the most money, rather than those most talented or unique. I mostly listen to heavier music, but enjoy quite a few different genres. I tend towards music that is "progressive", or brings something uncommon or new to the style. I don't think there's anything wrong with people liking current pop music, but I think people are missing out if they restrict themselves to it.

Yes you're right, I actually miswrote the lyrics. I intended to write "oh-no oh-no oh-no"...

> Look at movies set during various decades;

In the 90s a lot of movies had accompanying songs that would go into the charts. I remember Titanic, Bond movies, Godzilla, gangsters paradise, some Bryan Adam’s and Aerosmith songs.

I don’t know if that is still the case today as I listen mostly listen my own Spotify playlists or ”classic” radio stations (meaning 90s/00s music nowadays).

I can imagine it was an effect of the commercial music industry at the time and these songs were heavily subsidized by the movie’s marketing budget to get into the charts.

I remember "The wild wild west" as one long ad for its title track. Can't remember many examples after that.

Occasionally a song will bubble up to be known by many people. For example Gangnam style. But I can’t think of anything else.

That was pre-siloed internet era. Those were still golden days of internet, because everyone was seeing the same “trends” and there was some alignment. Think of ice bucket challenge, planking, and etc.

The stuff I see nowadays is very different from what you see, despite using the same platforms. It’s sad, because it’s not even just internet, it’s all types of media. No more Game of Thrones discussions at work on Mondays, because almost everyone watching it. No more songs that almost everyone knows. And the list keeps going on.

Basically algorithms catering to every taste, rather than some humans being the curators. I understand the negative sides of it as well, but talking to my nephews… things don’t look that fun even for them.

If you're lucky, you keep searching and finding unique forms of media, but it definitely takes effort. If you can find a group of people that are interested in the not-so-popular, but deeper meaning media, it can be extremely rewarding. I usually tend towards heavier music, but also enjoy strange electronic that breaks out of genres, as well as strange and more psychedelic or interesting media on YouTube. I have a group of friends that I recommend these to, and we have some great conversations about it. Some art even really "friends", but just people with the same interests that I've never met before, yet I find it fun to explain what drew me to the media, and then hearing what they think about it and if they feel similar.

Meanwhile, my son is going back in time and discovering the same bands that eventually burned me out on more popular heavy music. I try not to push him towards any one thing, I will give him band or album suggestions, but let him decide whether he wants to listen or not. With friends I try to push a little harder, but I want my son to have the same type of free thinking and discovery when it comes to music that I had in the early 90s.

It’s not about “quality, deep, meaningful” media. It’s about not having a common topic of discussion with a passerby other than politics. But there’s definitely good stuff out there. One of the problems is, too much good stuff actually!

Nailed it. I used to gather with friends for Game of Thrones every Sunday, but now there's really nothing with that kind of widespread appeal.

People used to do this with Friends, Melrose Place, Sex and the City...

It really doesn't look very fun now. Everyone is face-down in their phones even when they're together and "out." I'm so glad to have grown up at the time where we developed mastery of technology but are not enslaved by it. Childhood, or at least adolescence, looks pretty uninteresting and shitty now across all kinds of demographics.

Lil Nas X

That's pretty funny (and on the money), because I almost mentioned Gangnam Style as an increasingly rare example of a generationally-known hit.

And even that was what, 10 years ago?

13, actually.

This hit me when looking at sci-fi shows that focused in music in the pre-2000 period (like stark trek)

Before, it looked very off why people in the future only hear that music. Now it look perfectly accurate!

(Also, the joke in my home is that not good music was ever created after 2010-ish so that is why everyone in the future is like that :) )