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Comment by ngneer | Hacker News Reader

Conversely, you might be vastly overestimating channel capacity. If ALL subscriber calls were on WhatsApp or Signal, the network would grind to a halt.

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Besides making no sense (modern networks are already largely VoIP based, so what’s the difference from a capacity point of view): What does that have to do with anything discussed in this thread, i.e. the feasibility of encrypting VoIP calls?

I'm really starting to wonder: Did I unintentionally send some kind of bat signal through time, channeling Bellhead objections to the feasibility of VoIP that have been thoroughly and empirically disproven years ago when the POTS largely switched to NGN and IETF standards, and people around the world have moved on entirely to Internet-based OTT VoIP services?

I was not commenting on VoIP, it works nicely and has for a long time, in the network core too. Mobile carriers do not use VoIP with the MS, to my knowledge. There's "Wi-Fi Calling", but that is the closest you're gonna get to packetized data streams reaching your phone (it sees traction where other reception is bad and the carrier has to rely on the Internet). Your use of "Bellhead" as a derogatory term is noted, and is more reflective on you than anything else. Feel free to have the last word, though.

> Mobile carriers do not use VoIP with the MS

No, they do, exclusively. LTE and beyond don’t even support circuit switched calls anymore.

Bellhead wasn’t intended in a derogatory way, just as a reference to the “Netheads vs. Bellheads” schools of thinking about networks.

I do have great respect for historical phone systems and the clever engineers making them work. In terms of absolute reliability, I think VoIP was indeed a step back (although I think that’s mainly due to modern engineering and QA practices than inherent limitations).

Exclusively? You make it sound like VoLTE is mandatory. That is not the case, to my knowledge. On a 4G network, for example, one does not always have VoLTE available, and yet one is always able to place voice calls. Since your conviction is palpable, if you could please provide a reference then that would help further the discussion. If not, then no worries, will find the information on my own.

> 4G and Evolved Packet Core (EPC) architectures do not include support for circuit-switched voice and video calls. Two tracks are available that provide interoperable voice services on 4G smartphones: Circuit-Switched Fallback (CSFB) and VoLTE.

(from https://www.ericsson.com/en/reports-and-papers/white-papers/...)

Circuit switched fallback means falling back to 3G or 2G (or maybe CDMA) for voice calls; if such networks are no longer available in a given area, VoLTE is indeed mandatory if voice calls are to be supported. (Which is often mandated by regulations, so networks sometimes even block non-VoLTE UEs from attaching.)

Sucks on my phone though I've turned it off.

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