Happy 10k Day
blog.comma.ai
blog.comma.ai
Note for anyone from Comma reading this: I bought a car recently and limited my search to only Comma-well-supported models. None of the sales people at any dealership I went to had heard of Comma, and this was in San Diego (Comma's HQ).
Every sales rep that I mentioned the Comma to said "awesome, I'm going to tell everyone about that!"
If you want to sell more Commas, start giving demos at dealerships, and you'll soon have every Hyundai and Toyota car salesman in the US selling Commas for you.
"Hey you should buy this aftermarket autopilot system along with the car. No it isn't sold by Toyota. It's some small company you haven't heard of. No there's no warranty. Nope no safety data. You have to accept all liability for use. Yeah it might kill you and your kids. But hey, you get to be an alpha tester!"
99% of customers are going to walk out of the dealership after hearing that pitch.
What you said would be the case if they had the baggage of "full self driving" marketing over 10 years.
What would the developers tell their partners or friends in confidence? Are their claims in confidence supported by evidence that they made efforts to validate in proportion to the magnitude of their claims? Does that differ from what they say commercially? If so, then they are communicating deceptively to further their monetary interests.
That is not to say that other manufacturers are not communicating deceptively all the time as well, but complaining about truthful statements because they do not exaggerate to the detriment of the user for the monetary benefit of the manufacturer is silly.
A good sales person would talk about any self-driving feature built in (eg lane following) then mention the car is compatible with third-party self-driving products like Comma.ai.
Just like how they talk about brakes, wheels, exhaust on sports cars - all areas customers may mod after purchase.
What's in it for the sales person or the dealership?
If a human becomes distracted for a moment and causes a wreck, that's a risk that's currently well-handled by insurance, even if it happens every 20,000 miles the person can still be insurable. If by contrast they install this, even if it does a much better job for 25,000 miles, then wrecks, if they could be personally sued for someone's 7-figure dollar medical bills + pain and suffering (not an exaggeration for sure), that's a big problem.
What's the realistic chances that the salesperson said this as a method to gain trust with the buyer to try and get a sale in the end?
We still see movies of the latest FSD crashing into stationary objects. So I wonder how Comma compares to other camera-only-systems.
For the owners in thread, maybe someone can explain to me the LTE modem requirement of the hardware. WiFi I get (easier to transfer records/video/data), but as someone still tooling around in a 2010 Honda and reluctant to buy into modern spyware-equipped vehicles, I’m wary of adding anything with cellular connectivity that could “phone home” without my consent. If the comma is fully self-contained and wholly offline, then that’s a huge selling point for folks like me who want privacy in our vehicles and a non-networked device that’s harder that’s harder to compromise remotely, and it’d definitely influence my future purchasing decisions so my vehicle choice supports these sorts of aftermarket modules.
One other suggestion (and honestly something I ought to write an essay on at some point): stop using Discord for support/community stuff. I’m seeing a lot of companies offload their forums/socials/support into Discord, and while I see the appeal on paper it’s not ideal for those of us who want to compartmentalize interactions based on goal (e.g., socialization vs vendor support). Just a personal nitpick of mine coming from some degree of community support background and well aware of Discord’s flaws and privacy shortcomings.
The record, for reference, uses a traditional Cannonball route from Red Ball Garage in NY, to Portofino Hotel and Marina in Redondo Beach, CA.
2850 miles of American interstate plus a bunch of surface streets at the start and end. All with under 20 miles human assisted.
* the record was taken back by Alex Roy, who has had a series of autonomous cross-country records
Most integrations I've seen are plug and go. Unplug and it's like stock. It influences CANBUS messaging while integrated. Twists the wheel, pushes brakes or gas for you.
You nudge the steering wheel for torquey curves, and takeover to take exits, or to correct incorrect assumptions.
Good for highway. Like a good ADAS.
Driving is essentially 3 inputs (gas, brake, steer). I use the comma for steering to keep the car centered in the lane, which is does extremely well. My car has built-in radar cruise control which keeps the speed (gas) and distance from the car ahead (brake), so highway/city driving even in traffic is a breeze.
I have not tried the experimental mode that supposedly has some level of end-to-end capability where the comma controls the gas and brake, and have found the current balance absolutely perfect for my needs.
> Do I retain my car factory safety features with openpilot installed?
>When openpilot is enabled in settings, Lane Keep Assist (LKAS), and Automated Lane Centering (ALC) are replaced by openpilot lateral control and only function when openpilot is engaged. Lane Departure Warning (LDW) works whether engaged or disengaged.
> On certain cars, Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) is replaced by openpilot longitudinal control.
> openpilot preserves any other vehicle safety features, including, but are not limited to: AEB, auto high-beam, blind spot warning, and side collision warning.
The FAQs about comma's automated lane centering and adaptive cruise control also say:
> openpilot is designed to be limited in the amount of steering torque it can produce.
So comma isn't even trying to be the subsystem responsible for handling sudden surprises. It's only trying to upgrade a suitably-equipped car from SAE Level 0 or Level 1 up to Level 2.
Arming cruise control will lightly take over your wheel, letting it lane keep and steer the car at light turns. You can take control back at any point by using the wheel yourself, and at steeper turns like taking a left at an intersection, it asks you to take over the steering until the turn is completed.
Setting the speed is basically autopilot. I could probably drive from los angeles to vegas without touching the wheel or pedals, as long as you get on the highway first.
Its really bad at stopping at stop signs, it slows down to 10mph and continues. Red light detection needs to be better, but it will stop a little ahead of the line at a stop light 90% of the time.
Lane changes are a breeze, just not completely autonomous. Flick the stalk whichever direction and it changes lanes 2 seconds after. It'll even use the blind spot cameras and abort a lane change if need be. Blind spot cameras on the prius dont detect if theres a car just ahead of you that you could turn into, so its not Commas fault, but Teslas Enhanced Autopilot is better at that.
I, love, my Comma. It's turned my mildly safety-featured car into a relaxing future-proof personnel carrier. Keep your eyes on the road or It'll yell at you. It's not level 5 by a long shot, but because it's open source, it just keeps getting better and better over time. The minute AGI comes out, my car is Level 5 ready.
I hesitate to install a community fork of an open-source browser. I am constantly amazed at how casually trusting people are of software.
> Red light detection needs to be better
I’m sure it’s fine.
Yes, one has to pay attention and it’s still you in control. The problem is that it very much invites you not to, so there’s a jarring disconnect.
And like your experience it can be brilliant for 10,000 miles, but if it bugs out on the 10,001’st in a way you didn’t expect (worse, since you now have 10,000 miles of experience and might think you “know” it now) are you still alert enough to handle it? Otherwise it doesn’t matter how good the experience is on the first 10,000 miles if causes an accident on the 10,001’st.
It's far better at driving than either FSD or Autopilot, though it doesn't navigate or change lanes without input, but for long road trips those things don't matter to me at all.
You sound like a really unsafe driver who shouldn’t be on the road, period.
Driving fatigue is nearly eliminated
I mean, I get what he's trying to say, but it's a bit scary.
THIS IS ALPHA QUALITY SOFTWARE FOR RESEARCH PURPOSES ONLY. THIS IS NOT A PRODUCT.
> I might or might not have fallen asleep one night on a long road trip and awoken to my car driving along happily
My nightmare is getting smashed to pieces by people like you and your insurance refusing to pay because you found it funny to fiddle with your car. You being bankrupt will not help me.
Drivers like you ruin lives.
"Drivers like you end lives."
I bought a car in 2023. It's my first ever. I was 55 years old.
I am a lifelong cyclist and motorcyclist. I love bikes. But in 2023 I had a debilitating accident with life-changing injuries, and I had to stop riding upright bikes.
I now drive several times a week. I still don't like it. But I do understand the pressures and risks facing car drivers much better. Oh, and this car is an automatic, so I understand those more too; I had never driven an automatic before, because I'm not American. I learned to drive in 1986 or so, and got my license about 20 years later. 100% manual gearboxes all the way.
Making cars safer for the occupants and easier to drive is THE WORST THING TO DO. There are decades of research in risk compensation demonstrating why.
This company's own webpage is awful. It merely says:
« The comma 3X is custom hardware designed to live in your car, and purpose built to run openpilot. »
It does not explain what "openpilot" is or does, and does not even bother to link to it.
This is a bad thing. It is not to be encouraged.
This should have been a sign to re-evaluate your relationship to driving, not to double-down on becoming reliant on Comma. What a horrifying anecdote.
https://data.consumerreports.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/...
They're nothing more than traffic aware cruise control with automatic lane keeping. They're not designed to be used on surface streets, and certainly not intended to allow you to read a book or something while driving.
we'll definitely do some good writeups and/or talks once it's shipped.
I've found a line in the FAQ that says:
> Does openpilot work outside of the United States of America?
> Yes, openpilot is not region locked and can be used in any country. You are responsible for complying with local laws and regulations.
It doesn't inspire confidence.
"You are responsible for complying with local laws and regulations." sounds like "please do not eat wrapper", completely obvious.
If the website is not clear about it, I'll assume it won't be well supported in my country.
Personally, I find that “autopilot” style features makes me a better driver because I can spend more time focusing on the road ahead rather than splitting my attention to oft-arbitrary tasks like speed limit compliance. However, I know this doesn’t apply to everyone. If you are the sort of person for whom less active involvement impairs your ability to stay engaged in the executive task of driving, this will exaggerate the sense of disconnection even further.
Car Immedialy swerves into the right lane. At whatever speed you're going.
Our Subaru doesn't have lane change, so this is a fucking horrific bug that will kill someone by putting them under a semi.
I can repro this at most speeds on any road that meets the above condition.
I'm surprised it got implemented in such a manner.
The fix won't come until after a massive lawsuit. I just wish it counted under lemon laws.
And what's their safety record? I guess if they're not saying, it's not something they want to talk about. Or worse, they don't even know because I doubt users are self-reporting.
So many questions. I spent some time on their site but got frustrated and bounced before i could get any real information. It's just talks 'car compatibility' and 'buy now'. Seems to present as a magic box you should just trust.
And while I'm sure I could find answers the fact that these things aren't front-and-center, at least to me, doesn't send the right message. I don't want to just "plug in and go" with something so safety critical. Seems to market as more toy/gadget than "safety first".
Same with Tesla, mind.
Cool that that exists. I’m actually surprised that car manufactures support opening up control like that. Or is this essentially a private interface for implementers; how much are end-users supposed to be messing around with internals like this?
I’ll maintain that as someone that is largely ignorant in this space their website did little to give me confidence that they care about these kinds of questions. That maker’s attitude works for a gadget that drives around your lawn, but jars with reality at 60 mph.
I checked their team page, repositories and bounties. It is lovely to see things so well structured around an open source product that encourages everyone to contribute, share, even get paid.
I will keep this in mind for our team calls as a brilliant reference.
Curious where telsa and comma rank, and where others (e.g. mercedes) rank comparatively.
They’ve done updates each year since but haven’t included comma for some reason.
> Comma Two > Open Pilot
Also bummer on no FJ Cruiser support. :(
You are still driving the car, it’s just less intense.
First, it senses the weight of your hand on the wheel. Whenever it steers, it senses the torque on the wheel from your hand. Even if your hand is moving with the wheel, you will end up applying a tiny amount of torque that it senses. However, when driving straight, I often find it warning me to apply a small amount of torque on the steering wheel so it knows my hand is there.
Second, there's a camera behind the rear-view mirror that detects your gaze. If it thinks you're looking at your phone or the touch screen for more than a few seconds, it tells you to watch the road.
It had one failure, but the way it failed was so alarming I'm hesitant to ever try them again. It not only failed while engaged, but it froze which meant it still showed the bright green outline indicating "I'm still engaged!" with no alert sounds, visual indication of disengagement, or automatic restart.
I only noticed something was off when my car started to drift outside the lanes during a curve, which took me longer to notice than necessary because it still looked engaged and it looked like a somewhat typical case of understeering until I started exiting the lane. It also never booted back on again, so something went seriously wrong during an otherwise routine drive.
Stock driver assistance systems (e.g. Rivian Driver+, Tesla Autopilot) have redundant computers it can fall back on if the primary fails. If Comma offered a self-contained device that was demonstrably redundant at a hardware level I'd be willing to give it another shot!
2 IDK.
I am not opposed to it.