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Comment by bearjaws | Hacker News Reader

Elon is wasting his damn time in politics.

As a long time Tesla fan its insane what Cybertruck has done to the brand.

My wife has a new Santa Fe and it blows my Model 3 out of the water in terms of tech. Better back up camera, 360 camera, cross traffic alarms, and two stalks on the steering wheel...

Everytime I see the new Model 3 I can't help but imagine how amazing it would have been if they didn't cut so many corners to build the failing Cybertruck.

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I never understood why people think Musk is some kind of genius man.

He absolutely is a very good salesman and marketeer but that's about it. Everything he sold that was successful was created by others. The moment he starts to interfere things go wrong. The Cybertruck is a great example.

It is also known that people at SpaceX hate it when he is around telling people what to do because most of it doesn't make sense.

Now he is in politics it becomes clear to a lot of people who he really is. A greedy salesman.

True for most of these personalities, Jobs included

Not to defend Jobs’ behavior, but it’s hard to deny that he had good taste, clear vision, and immaculate presentation skills. He also showed signs of self-reflection and empathy in his later years. (Musk could never deliver the same kind of college commencement address as him, for example.)

> It is also known that people at SpaceX hate it when he is around telling people what to do because most of it doesn't make sense.

Sounds like he does a bit of Seagull Management[1]. Worked with a founder like this once. Everyone dreaded seeing him around the office, because that meant everyone's work was going to get upended and/or canceled, and we'd be working on something totally different once he articulated his latest fever dream to the engineering team. Then, once the place was in chaos, he'd get in his plane and fly off somewhere until he stopped by again to upend everything.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seagull_management

The Cybertruck didn't do anything to the brand, the Cybertruck is a manifestation of the brand. Musk is a visionary who just happened to have a vision that had overlap with the zeitgeist (electric cars in the 2010s) but he is not a savant, most of visions are absolute nonsense, and we're now seeing that play out. The Model 3 is more of an aberration for Musk. The Cybertruck is pure Musk.

Is the failing Cybertruck a common sentiment? Is it based on sales or more subjective metrics?

It has far less potential to be sold in millions than the Model 3. The cybertruck is built ignoring certification standards in many jurisdictions (no way of legally drive on in Europe). Then the design is super controversial. Compare that to a Model 3 that is sold worldwide and that has a design which is acceptable to many.

All in all, it's a sentiment, but one that's hard to ignore. As a halo product, the Cybertruck is terrible for the Tesla brand.

By objective metrics of being a good 4x4 vehicle for actual off loading it's easily beaten by a somewhat decrepit 20 year old Toyota 4runner.

And somewhat paradoxically that decrepit 4runner has fewer rust issues

Objective metrics have never been the point of SUV-type vehicles. I think the two things that sell them are large and heavy = safe and, uh, the Brawndo factor.

From 1999:

https://youtu.be/PI_Jl5WFQkA?si=NfKEtIYpvZYbFDuM

Sales seem to have stalled. Q3 2024 was strong, but then dropped off quite dramatically in Q4 2024 with no indication that Q1 2025 will improve, despite price cuts and generous financing deals. Basically there seems to be a small, dedicated, market that loves the Cybertruck, but they've largely all bought one by now, and they're struggling finding new customers.

All that being said I believe the Cybertruck is still the best selling EV pick up on the market, so it's not like the competition is doing any better in this segment.

> All that being said I believe the Cybertruck is still the best selling EV pick up on the market

According to the first story I found [0], Rivian R1T outsold Cybertruck in in 3Q24 and F150 lightning had outsold it YTD at the same point last year.

[0] https://fordauthority.com/2024/11/ford-f-150-lightning-sales...

I found this [0] which claims 39k Cybertrucks sold in all of 2024 vs 33.5k F150s and 11k R1Ts. It also claims 16k Cybertrucks sold in 3Q24, compared to your linked article which claims 7.5k for the same period. So who knows?

[0] https://insideevs.com/news/747195/tesla-cybertruck-sales-dem...

It's a near-universal sentiment and based on both.

However, you get major successes by taking risks. Evaluating people and businesses, I do so based on successes and not on failures. The best people (and businesses) I know failed more times than successful ones. Cybertruck was a good try, and it takes a few like that to be successful.

Of the problems I have with Tesla, the Cybertruck is not one of them.

Cybertruck owners, on the other hand, you might as well but a dunce cap and a t-shirt which says "I'm an idiot with too much money."

It's wild when you see these kinds of takes, because ultimately Elon has hired smart people and they would have built a R1T competitor, not the Cybertruck.

The idea of making an electric truck is a GOOD idea, but building one that is completely out of left field in terms of design is NOT. Tesla would have had a majorly successful pickup truck had they just built a normal ass pickup truck.

Acting like this was just some sort of "risk taking seat of the pants" maneuver is just absolving him of responsibility.

Quite literally snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

Rivian is clearly led by marketing folks who recognized that a successful truck would sacrifice efficiency for looking conventional.

A truly engineering led organization would end up with something like the Tesla & Nikola semi trucks, closer to the ideal teardrop shop that aerodynamics leads to.

If Americans cared one bit about efficiency the country would look entirely different.

Half of all people buy a massive SUV for their one child to be driven around in.

Also the R1T is only about 8% less efficient than a CT...

Yes, that's part of the point I'm trying to make. Only engineers care about efficiency.

It's clear they burnt through all 1 million pre orders and now you can get them in less than a week. Based on when they reached July 2024 pre-orders and roughly 25k built at the time, it is speculated only 3% of people actually chose to purchase the car, with 97% getting a refund.

Compare that to the ~80% conversion rate of the Model 3 when it launched, it appears the Cybertruck is a massive failure.

You mistake Elon. He's no longer interested in Tesla, and it's 100% clear with where he's spending his time. Tesla is the ladder that got him where he is, and he's fine if that ladder burns now that he's already climbed it.

he's wasting his time with the way he's doing politics.

I'm all for having a good time, but I wish he'd cut out the 5th grade sense of humor and be a man.

The Cybertruck was an attempt to pull "rednecks" and sales of the popular Ford F-150

Brave holding out for the rationals! In hindsight you could have shorted an ice cube in this market and made money. I thought it was likely Trump would fuck the market.

> Elon is wasting his damn time in politics.

He would very much prefer not to be in politics.

Prove it

He has a very strange way of showing that if it's true.

All he had to do was nothing, like he said he would, several times.

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