Dude sieg-heiled twice on stage. He needs to have no connection, including stock, and they need a rebrand, before I’d consider them. The T logo is a swastika now, and I would’ve drive around with one of those on my car.
He said «my heart goes out to you». Without a video of him saying that nobody would have blinked an eye at the contents of what he said. You know, content, the thing Martin Luther King said we should judge people by.
This is a pretty bad problem (or «strategy») with the modern left. They imagine something into existence, either now, or more commonly in a vague future.
They then base their political platform on these imagined or assumed things. They do this all the time.
The Elon nazi thing is probably the most extreme and obvious case I’ve seen of this, and I’m honestly shocked to see the amount of people taking it seriously.
The left should, like Bill Maher recently said, focus on providing a viable alternative instead of trying to see who can act the most unhinged.
It was a “haha only serious” Nazi salute. It’s not “unhinged” to see what’s plainly visible.
For you to act like it's 100% definitely misinformation rather than a judgement call is disingenuous to the extreme.
I’ll go on the unpopular limb and say that anyone seriously considering the fact that any mainstream persona intentionally did a «Nazi» thing has been consuming too much traditional, commercial media who almost by definition thrives on controversy and clicks. Their core interest is not in facts or honest reporting.
I don’t think HN is the most appropriate place for such discussions, but if anyone seriously wants to accuse Elon Musk of being a «Nazi», I would kindly request that they first define what they mean by that word in 2025, because to me that is honestly not very obvious.
He’s pro Israel and want less government regulation. I’m no expert, but to me that seems anti-Nazi?
To the rest of this, playing with Nazi shit to “trigger the libs” is a whole thing on the right, and I 100% think it’s what Elon was doing (and why we’ve seen more of it since, from others). The other explanations are bizarre (what the fuck is “my heart goes out to you”? The closest thing I can think of to that sort of gesture doesn’t risk this kind of confusion) and this kind of “trolling” is read as absolutely serious and a show of support by the worst elements of the right.
For my part, play with Nazi shit, you’re a Nazi, and so’s anyone who keeps associating with you. Most of the right didn’t run away from this, so we’ve got a pretty serious Nazi problem now.
I appreciate the honest response, I really do.
But right here is where I’ll have to go back to my original comment about imagining problems.
You imagine he did something Nazi like. You imagined there are big swaths of right wing people supporting this imagined Nazi act. You imagine a big Nazi problem.
And it could be all in your head.
Listen to Bill Maher: Focus on becoming a viable alternative, rather than chasing crazy things. The world can only benefit from more viable options at the next election.
If this were literally the only issue, idk, maybe? But there’s also the broader plan they’re implementing, and the normalization of wildly illegal action from the executive. It’s authoritarianism top to bottom, and they said exactly what they’re aiming to do.
I’m focusing on a lot of things, and the fact that Nazi salutes (it’s on video! He did it twice! Watch that again and tell me what would look different if that were in-fact what he’s doing. What the hell gesture even looks close to what he does, if not that? I find the denial of what we can all plainly see shocking, similar to attempts to deny what happened on January 6th which we watched live) are now “eh, it’s fine” for the Republican Party is not nothing.
Like we’re a multifaceted coup attempt and an “if I lose to Hillary, the 2nd amendment folks can do something about it” in, and we’re in the middle of “shock and awe” (their words) against the government bureaucracy, firing of the people charged with preventing much worse and who did prevent that last time (IGs, generals), 40ish days out from the publicly stated deadline for agency reports on whether Trump should invoke the insurrection act, and the richest dude in the world Nazi salutes on stage twice and people are still going “IDK”. Gimme a fucking break.
But yes the actual problem is I can tell what kind of gesture he very obviously made and find it repugnant. That’s the problem. Not that all the above is going on and people are still entertaining “he just meant ‘my heart goes out to you’, which one expresses with a firm grimace, a slap to the chest and quick extension of the arm, fucking exactly like a Nazi salute” as if it’s not obvious bullshit.
Elon obviously does not tick off every box for "Nazi", but he gets so many that a lot of people are understandably horrified.
The salute was, physically, a Nazi salute - as any video comparison clearly shows. And he did it twice. Maybe he didn't "mean" it - maybe it was ironic, maybe it was for kicks, but it obviously was one.
Add to that his support for far-right parties around the world. That includes Germany, and, yes, Israel - while historic Nazis were antisemites, but some far-right people today find common ground with the far-right in Israel, which is exactly who is in power there now.
And Elon is allied with Trump, who got elected after a campaign in which he demonized immigrants as "poisoning the blood" of the nation, said that (legal!) immigrants were "eating the cats and the dogs", etc. etc. Those are classic lines from far-right, fascist governments. Demonizing gay and trans people as well, and Elon has done plenty of that himself.
So, is Elon just "far-right" and not "Nazi"? I'm not sure it's worth debating the difference. Obviously literal card-carrying Nazis are in the past, but the overlap between the modern far-right and historical fascism is enormous.
Here's video of him doing it intentionally. Twice:
Then there wouldn’t even be room for this. But the man keeps finding himself questionable close to nazi adjacent shit far too often. It might be for lulz, but don’t be surprised when consumers back off your products.
I don't understand the gesture. It's not something I see myself ever doing. But here's Tim Walz doing the exact same thing on video. Evidence of secret NSDAP membership?
I tell ya what. Instead of trying to convince you of what you're wishing to be not true, try this: Pull up the video of the gesture he made, practice it at home, make sure you can duplicate it perfectly, and then go into work and do it in front of each person you meet, and come back here and tell us what happens.
His other grandfather was a well respected senior government minister.
( Who defended aparthied tooth and nail in the white South African Government )
A little historical background.
Still, if you like youtube material, the lyrics to songs they all grew up with in SA are telling enough: e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIGnIvL18_4&t=31s
As the twigs were bent ...
to Musk doing the nazi like gesture https://x.com/iam_smx/status/1881583500991889729
I think there's an obvious difference.