Ask HN: Escaping Difficult Employment Situation?

First off, it sounds like you’re going through a lot and human to human I want to acknowledge how hard that is. I’d suggest trying to talk to someone to help you heal and overcome the things that you’ve been coping with. When I’ve worked stressful jobs I’ve found exercise to be really helpful. Lastly, just remember that while you need your job economically you’ve already decided to leave, so as much as possible try to not take any of the actions of others personally. If you can put some mental space between your work and yourself it might help you to keep enough energy to focus on a search for something more fulfilling.

There are great teams out there, it does take a lot of work to find them but it is possible to find something fulfilling. Take care of yourself enough during this time so you have the energy to go find something better. I’d encourage you to get started.

I barely have the mental energy to do my job.

Spending the time and effort to do the SECOND job, after my first one is just a mathematical impossibility. I don't have any gas left in the tank.

It has been like this since last October. My life is just a fucking chaos firepit and there is no way out of this reactive hellscape

It sounds paradoxical, but you need some energy to harness energy. Try to avoid going straight home from work, take a long walk and wear yourself down in an unusual way. Break pattern.

When I was stuck the most career wise, I put my bed in the basement and slept on the couch. Not a recommendation. But you’re allowed to slowly slip out of the life you don’t want.

I work from home... which is it's own set of problems.

One thing I did going through divorce is choose to live somewhere that there are a lot of people around. I have a few restaurants and bars within walking distance... I have found a huge improvement in quality of life just by getting to know some of the bartenders and locals.

After being in software development for 20+ years, I have concluded that EVERY workplace is dysfunctional - it's just a matter of degree. The only time I wasn't drowning in workplace apathy was the 5 year stint I did as a freelancer. That of course wasn't stress free because you have absolutely no employment guarantee outside of the next 3 weeks.

Ultimately, as with much of life, you have to figure out what you're willing to settle for. You can:

  * Be a software engineering consultant and have complete control, but also high risk
  * Work at a large corp, where you'll have almost no control but also fewer hours and lower risk
  * Join a startup, where you'll have longer hours, and moderate control and risk

Personally at this point in my life, I decide that I can stomach workplace inefficiency and stupidity if it means I can get a decent paycheck and I'm not being overworked.

It sounds like the job is only one part of the crisis you're facing. I echo the other commenters in suggesting professional help - depending on the country you're in this could be free or provided by your health insurance.

The weekend is almost here - try to make a plan with a friend (even if you haven't seen them in years), or go do something you enjoy like going to the beach or a local park. It won't fix things, but it can be a brief respite from the grind.

In terms of the job, I would keep going but start phoning it in. "Quiet quitting" is a real thing, and it will give you the space to look for a new job. If it's super intolerable, see if you can reduce your expenses significantly and just GTFO. I don't know if you have alimony, if so that might be harder. Reach out to your friends (even distant ones) and professional network - that's where all the good jobs are.

> Reach out to your friends (even distant ones) and professional network - that's where all the good jobs are.

This is the part of the social / career collapse that is the most painful and probably largest roadblock I have. Once you lose connections it's really hard to find new ones when you are seen as "why don't you have any OTHER friends?"

I don't know how to tell people that I have nobody else without sounding pathetic. Nobody wants to get my loser failure filth on them, they are all afraid they will be associated with me and nobody wants that. It's why my wife left me.

I totally get it - I haven't made many friends since covid.

> Nobody wants to get my loser failure filth on them, they are all afraid they will be associated with me and nobody wants that. It's why my wife left me.

This kind of language does not help. If you talk about yourself this way, even hyperbolically, you will feel this way about yourself.

> I don't know how to tell people that I have nobody else without sounding pathetic.

You don't need to - perhaps you have friends from university (if you went) or school. If you don't have any friends or colleagues that you have even a passing acquaintance with, you could try meetup (especially in the US, it's a good platform). Just go see some people. If you're worried about sounding pathetic, it might be easier to do a group activity, so you're less likely to get into a deep emotional conversation. If you can't find a group activity, find a local charity that's doing a litter pick or something similar. You could also sign up for a class of some kind at a local community college or arts centre. I hear pottery can be very therapeutic.

EDIT: I've read some of your other comments about how hard it is to build meaningful friendships. It is hard. It can shake your sense of belonging to the core when you discover that people you thought were going to be friends for life end up not being around anymore.

However, not all friendships need to have a deep meaningful connection. It can be nice to just see people on a semi-frequent basis to do an activity together. It's certainly a good start.

I'm building some really good new friends, but I don't get to see them often due to distance.

I am also kind of fearful of leaning on people too much.

Getting to see more people regularly has helped with the deep meaningful vs casual acquaintance thing. Right now it's a battle of attrition to have enough opportunities that some more significant opportunities can happen organically.

The harder I try to force it the less progress I make. It's very difficult to deal with even being able to observe it. A perverse target fixation.

Happened to me. Waking up 3am sweating, immediately back to panic mode about my boss, in the middle of the freaking night.

I did quit. No matter how hard it became later, I had enough savings and rather started looking for a new job.

I don't have any proof for you, neither for myself. But I feel I will thank my past self later, and appreciate that I didn't suffer under unnecessary stress when I was younger.

As someone who's "just quit" a few times when life or work situations weren't going well:

Unless you have children to feed with your salary - just quit and get some exercise. It'll be fine. It freaked out the 401k min-maxers around me but I really don't care about every last dollar I could've been making.

It's taking every ounce of self control to not quit right now. Living like this is... not living.

Note: These are just my personal opinions.

If I can list out the issues you have mentioned, just to get a picture first:

- Burnout in current job.

- No alternative jobs you want.

- No appetite for job hunting.

- House is gone.

- Wife is gone.

These are big problems - too big for someone to solve alone. First step is to find someone trusted who can support you. Whether it's a friend, family member or a professional. If they aren't available, a local support group. And if that isn't available, find a pro bono service online. You need someone checking in with you and helping you put a plan together over the next few months.

Next step is to prioritise the list. What MUST be fixed right away? Create a plan for each item.

After you have a plan, you potentially need some time to execute. Think about taking extended leave, a break for a few weeks. You need time and space to stop the spiral.

> First step is to find someone trusted who can support you. Whether it's a friend, family member or a professional. If they aren't available, a local support group. And if that isn't available, find a pro bono service online. You need someone checking in with you and helping you put a plan together over the next few months.

If I could get this I wouldn't have made this post.

This is a reminder to everyone else that there are good, hardworking people falling through the cracks. Because nobody cares. You can do all the shit but if nobody cares about you, you will NEVER get your needs met. Ever. Once society sees that you have been rejected it's impossible to remove the black stain on your social standing. It doesn't matter if it's justified or reasonable, once the smear occurs you are done.

"nobody cares" except if you've been rejected, then life has some sort of blackball effect on you?

I'm sorry but nonsense. You need to find someone to slap sense into you, you're too far down this dark hole.

You got the job to keep the wife who left anyway and apparently took the house. The job sucks. This seems like two parts of the equation that cancel one another out -- so dump the job. Work as a walmart greeter or something for a bit. go travel, backpacking, hosteling, hey, be one of those traveling beggars that I hate so much -- I bet they don't wake up every day and think about societal black marks on some imaginary scorecard. They think about bumming a ride to that badass glacier over yonder because they want to yell at it and listen to the echo.

the rut is deep, but you can walk right out and reinvent yourself. I hope you find a path to do so, even if it sucks for a bit. It sounds like it can only be better over yonder, wherever that is.

Detach mentally from your job. Do the bare minimum. On the days you work from home, take a 20-30 minute nap at lunchtime.

I advise working on your own business over the weekends, at least a little bit, on something new that the world needs.

Don't consider yourself damaged. Ensure your lifestyle is clean. This means:

1. No smoking or alcohol.

2. Breathe clean air. Use air purifiers.

3. Eat well, including Organic fruits, nuts, vegetables, and whole grains. No sugar.

4. Exercise as often as possible, cardio too.

5. Take all optimal vitamins and mineral supplements.

6. Don't mix food or drink, especially if hot or acidic, with plastic or polystyrene containers.

Fire your therapist. They're not fixing anything for you.

Just start doing less at work. It's very unlikely, even if you're in the US, that you'll be fired quickly, so just reduce your output. Use any time that you're not being directly observed to pull out your phone and look for other jobs. If you can, take a week or two of PTO, and if you can't, call in sick for a few days.

None of this makes it easy to leave, but short of just leaving the job and taking a few weeks to recover, which I assume you're not in a financial position to do, it's the only realistic way.

Ohh I feel you. I also struggle with having a garbage job, needing it, and letting it ruin my mental state.

The usual advice is to emotionally distance yourself from bad interactions. No idea how to do that though.

What kind of works for me is to offset the bad stuff with the good. Play video games with friends, in person, sitting on a couch, as it should be. Start a side project that nobody needs but you, purely for the sensation of making a thing that you like.

And at the earliest opportunity, get out of there. Corpos are the enemy.

> Start a side project that nobody needs but you, purely for the sensation of making a thing that you like.

I did this and it's led to making friends and a lot of really good things in life. It's so good that not being able to give it the attention it needs to flourish is one of the things bringing me down most.

I can see what I want just beyond the fence in front of me... I don't know how to get over it yet.

If you're not married and you don't have a house, and don't love doing this kind of work anymore, quit and switch to something different.

You didn't say anything about physical disabilities so you can always take a labor job. If you can show up reliably there are tons of low experience/no experience construction/manufacturing jobs out there. They won't pay as well as programming/IT work, but should be a lot easier on your mental state.

How much savings do you have? You could take 30k USD and live for a year in a low COL place just recovering, being bored out of your mind, working out and eating healthy. Ideally you’d also make some human connection.

After that time, you should recover the will and the strength to fight for your place in the world and start looking for work again.

Take a break from work (even unpaid time off) so you could digest what you're going through. You could build yourself up and decide to work somewhere else, think of it as an escape. But as others suggested, you need to find some support amongst your close ones, you definitely need not be alone going through this.

> you need to find some support amongst your close ones, you definitely need not be alone going through this.

I am not allowed to get support. I don't know why but it's just not possible.

I am sure it is hard to be in that situation but remember everything is temporary, soon good things will happen. I am not the fittest person, but exercising changed my life for good. It does something to your head and it takes away the negativity. Cleansing body and mind helps great over the time.

I quit drinking alcohol and i have some hobbies that involve either dragging heavy shit around or using my arms for exercise.

No amount of "focusing on myself" has stopped the spiral of my life falling apart. Every time I do something for self care purposes something else I forgot about blows up and fucks me over even harder. I cannot get ahead all I can do is exist and attempt to keep all the plates spinning while i keep dropping them.

First of all: get professional help.

Talking about „rather dying“ is not a good sign - these days it may be words written on some forum, but who knows what may push you over the edge.

The next steps will then be taken, one by one, one after the other.

But, to repeat: seek a professionals help!

I'm in therapy. I'm on meds.

I'm "doing the work" but it takes fucking forever. How are you supposed to survive for the years it takes for society to begin to accept you? I don't have time I am getting older and less appealing every day. I am running out of time... or I have ALREADY run out of time and I am gripped in the terror of panic because it's too late and it's already lost / gone

You can't medicate your way out of a situation.

You can't take a pill that changes your job.

There is no way out.

Been there, done that. My granddad had a saying: "the best time to look for a new workplace is while you are at the workplace". My advise is just to keep looking and try to tolerate your job while you are looking for a new one or you might end up having a worse job(I've done that as well).

Now, trust me, I know that feeling of waking up and thinking "oh crap, I have to deal with this shit again". This was my exact thought at my old job every single morning. I was lied to about what I would be doing and worse still, I was put in a team with the top 3 most repugnant people I've ever met. I was simply winging it the entire time without feeling much guilt since I got lied to and ended up doing something which was way off what I was promised. I am a workaholic - I'm more than happy to work overtime, on holidays or weekends and I often do. But at my old job I was never in a hurry to start and was out the nanosecond I could. When I stumbled upon my current job, I found out that a friend was working here and I called him and asked him one question and one question alone: "what are the people like". Turns out some of the coolest people I've worked with. And this is my advise - push through as much as you can while actively looking for a new job without rushing it and pick your choices. There's always gonna be trade offs. In my case, I'm prioritizing people I have to work with over comfort. From what I gather, you should focus on the same.

I've been where you are, once about four months ago and once six years ago. Both times I stayed longer than I should have. Both times I hit the same burn out symptoms you describe: hating my daily grind, barely limping through the day. Both times I ended up quitting and eventually landing on my feet at a new job. It can be really hard to walk away, but the damage you do to yourself can really hard to walk back if you let it go too long.

It can be hard to find a fulfilling/challenging/engaging job and it's equally hard to find companies with a culture that doesn't slowly eat away at your sanity. If you can find the latter, it makes a menial/less interesting job better. It's a great deal if you can find both, but it seems like a cultural fit is more likely to help you through what sounds like a very tough personal stretch.

Getting some advice/support is always a solid option in circumstances like this. It might be a former co-worker, a former boss, a family member; whatever works to give you a positive nudge in the right direction.

Another thing I'd recommend: try to find some solace in hobbies or personal interests. If it's a physical engaging activity, so much the better: hiking, climbing, biking, lifting weights etc...It has served me very well over the years and helped me through some rough patches in my own life.

Good luck out there fellow traveler.

> Another thing I'd recommend: try to find some solace in hobbies or personal interests.

One of my favorite, most rewarding projects has been making fishing lures. Losing my house to divorce means I no longer have a space I can do the sandblasting, painting or other stinky fume-inducing work.

Not being able to do what I love makes me so full of self hate and shame.

My project has gained organic leads in a way NOTHING else I've made or worked on has. Every week I get a message or two asking if they can buy lures. My friends are a marketing MACHINE who have made great video content about the product and keep doing so.

I have everything I need but it's "not enough to live on" so I can't jump in with both feet.

I CANT EVEN MAKE MORE. Even if I had a space to make them, I'm dealing with a supply issue where I can't get the one raw material / part I use. I have ideas on how I can manufacture them but I DO NOT HAVE THE MENTAL CAPACITY to do all this on top of my job. It makes me feel like I am failing at the one chance I have to get out of this fucking hellhole. I can't do it. It's slipping through my fingers and I'll never get out.

Honestly it seems like the job is the least of your problems! I think you need to think hard about what you want your life to ultimately look like and try to map out what steps need to happen to get there. Do you need to stay in that location first of all? Maybe a move would open up new opportunities and be a fresh start.

One thing that you could do now is stop caring about trying too hard at your current role. Unemployment is rough, and you might be able to coast a while at your current role while you plan your next steps. It also might improve the situation.

That sounds rough. One of my friends is in a similar situation: hates his job, but can’t fathom a job hunt. Also, his job keeps him so busy and burnt out that he has zero energy to fill out job applications, whenever he does feel the motivation to do so!

Next week he’s taking a few days off just to apply to a bunch of jobs. I think it’s the right move. Sometimes the only way out is through.

If your job is awful and it can’t be helped, you’re just never going to be happy there. No amount of mental gymnastics is going to fix it. So if you can, maybe take a few days off and just crush a ton of jobs apps? If you get some traction, maybe you’ll see the light at the end of the tunnel, and it’ll be easier to keep applying and making progress.

Also: give yourself some credit! Being stuck in a shitty job doesn’t mean you’re in 50 foot hole wreck of a career. As much as people bemoan the job market (which of course can be tough), SWE’s are very much in demand. And there are a whole lot of companies don’t do leetcode-style BS interviews! My last job hunt only had one leetcode-ish interview, and I just threw that job app in the trash lol.

If you’re that miserable, you could even look at jobs that would be a downgrade in salary, if you can afford it.

Your suggestion is sound but my mental acuity is in the fucking dumpster. I am bad at my job because I am so stressed and upset about my inability to control my life. I'm doing some of the worst work ever... it takes me so long to do things and I'm just below the standard I know I can operate at.

So while the "keep working and look for work" thing is reasonable... it's just not for me. I can't. I can't keep up. I am so exhausted that everything is breaking down around me.

Beyond my refusal to engage in something that I don't believe can be successful... who the fuck wants to hire someone who is so disregulated and upset? I don't understand how i can ever come back from this.

Hello mister! I feel with you, mister. Quit the job before they fire you. It's a part of healing. But before, mister please check which direction would be interesting to work? It can be something really different. Something totally new. I wish you the best, mister!

Been in your situation many times. In my case, I'm just restless by nature - I've had a number of jobs most people would love to have and I love having them until I don't and I go into a spiral of anxiety and depression. I find I have to pull the ripcord before I start self-destucting.

In my (extensive) experience, I find that there IS a way out and it is rarely found in encouraging message board platitudes. Here is how I extract myself from work situations, good, bad, and otherwise.

- Form a plan. Well, duh. But the truth is that every "I hate my job" situation is born of decisions you made and can be solved by decisions you get to make. In your case it sounds like the reasons you took the job are now gone. That's GREAT news! You no longer have to satisfy those things and can start doing what's best for you.

The next part of the plan is having a plan. If my cases (as with most), the only thing keeping me in the job was the financial commitments I had in life. I have a wife, an ex-wife, child support, houses, health insurance, etc. It addds up so simply quitting is never an option. I find that the way to return my fire, my energy after work (and even before work) when my job has taken away my will to live is to build something new. I don't know what you do for work but it doesn't matter: everyone has SOMETHING they can teach, share, do perform to make more money than they make at work. Everyone. For me it's consulting (fractional CRO) and writing (blogs, case studies, whitepapers, ebooks). In the age of AI any skill you have can be polished up and marketed with a $20 ChatGPT subscription, a WebFlow site (skip WordPress because Matt is a baby) and a weekend of focus. Uber driver, dog walker, fence painter, driveway pressure-washer, there is so much money out there for people willing to TRY that it isn't funny. "I can't replace my income" is a myth and those of us not scared to try live in a different world than the rest of you.

Next, and this is crucial, you need a Burn the Boats deadline. Without a deadline you will never leave your job. Absent any other forcing function, you HAVE to put a date on the calendar and tell yourself constantly "I am quitting on this day." You'd be surprised how much a deadline will enforce behavior.

Now, every day when you wake up WRITE DOWN with pen and paper, not on your iphone or as a mental note, the ONE thing you are going to do today that has the highest amount of leverage in executing your plan. Every day, weekends included. There is no time to waste. Even if you feel you don't know exactly what to do, pick what you THINK is the most important thing and do that.

Finaly, draft your resignation letter and keep it in your pocket, make it the screensaver on your phone, tape it to the bathroom mirror.

good luck, you can do it and you'll be thankful you did. Because once you've done it once you know you can do it again...and you'll never ever go to work at a job you hate another day in your life.

I'm sorry man. I know what you're feeling and it's fucking brutal. It can get better, but it won't be today and won't be tomorrow. Hang in there.

You need to spend lots of time around good people. You need a job that gives you daily positive social connection. You need to actively look for that.

Your life will improve. I'm rooting for you.

> You need to spend lots of time around good people. You need a job that gives you daily positive social connection. You need to actively look for that.

Trying to find this has been one of the most frustrating experiences of my life. Losing everything, having my idea of what friendship and love can be shattered without any closure or explanation.

I just can't make friends anymore. It's like trying to walk on a broken leg. I can find new acquaintances but making any meaningful connections with people I can depend on is literally fucking impossible for me right now. I am having panic attacks and nervous breakdowns about it.

I don't know how to get out of this cycle. I don't think it's possible. I think I am so damaged that I just need to live without my needs being met. It's the only way forward but it seems so wrong and painful.

I know what you're going through. It's so incredibly hard to rejoin society after a period of isolation, social skills atrophy. Making a new close friend in middle age is not easy.

You sound like you're where I was 1-2 years ago. I still deeply miss my old life, but I'm no longer at the bottom of a hole that seems impossible to climb out of.

>I think I am so damaged that I just need to live without my needs being met. It's the only way forward but it seems so wrong and painful.

Yes. Put one foot in front of the other and bear the pain. It won't always suck this bad. I struggle with anhedonia and used to think it made life not worth living. Then I experienced psycotic depression, and now that I'm on the other side the anhedonia is bearable by comparison. Life's never so bad it can't get worse, hitting really deep lows gives you perspective on accepting more shallow lows. You may never feel great, but you can feel good enough to make living life better than the alternative.

I'd be happy to chat sometime if you want.