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Comment by epistasis | Hacker News Reader

The elites of the country that are now in power don't care about world leadership, much less the soft power that we had that made us all very rich, that made a plumber in the US make $7k a month while in much of Europe that plumber would only make $3k a month.

They care about enriching themselves as much as possible. It's all short-term gain, without any view for the future. Get those tax cuts, reallocate money away from the government and away from those who work for a living and make a true oligarch class.

If events continue down this route, the US is looking at a lost decade or even permanent loss of leadership, letting China catch up and then step up, or maybe India.

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>> that made a plumber in the US make $7k a month while in much of Europe that plumber would only make $3k a month.

I'm not trying to derail the thread, but framing your point as "magnitude of salary" is meaningless and perhaps reflects one of the issues.

It's not the size of the salary that's important- it's the quality of life. Salary is one factor in the equation, but it's not the only factor.

For example, in the US the plumber pays for health care. In Europe he mostly does not.

There are a million things that go into a very subjective quality of live assessment. Salary is part of it, yes, but ultimately only a part.

And, if we're being honest, the US certainly acts the part of leader, it talks a good game, and everyone is happy to take their money. But is anyone actually following their lead?

Quality of life is something that many people evaluate along very very different metrics at different weights. But losing that $7k and bringing it down to $3k does not look like it will be accompanied by plumbers no longer paying for healthcare out of pocket.

One measure of the lead of the US is how it is a destination for those looking to create great science, a great startup, build a business, or otherwise build a long-lasting contributor to our institutions. Europe, Japan, other places certainly rank highly here too, but the US is by far the biggest player and attracts the most people as far as I can tell.

Science is pretty global. The cutting edge of fusion is in France, CERN is in Switzerland, the SKA is in South Africa, and so on.

On the other hand, VC money for nothing more than a good pitch is certainly easier in the US. Although even there it's limited to very small (very expensive) parts of the US.

One measure of QOL is indeed immigration. The US and Europe both struggle with illegal immigration. The US likely attracts more legal immigration, but to be fair even that is mostly from non-European places.

It's not like there's an army of European plumbers desperately trying to get into the US.

The weather is better in Europe (but both are waaaay worse than Australia. )

And yes QOL is very subjective. Which speaks to my point, simply plucking a single metric like salary out the air is meaningless- even within the US that 7k will mean different things depending on where you live.

With huge respect, I’m an European SWE making a little more than 3k net (which means that what’s left after all taxes).

I own a nice house in a countryside village that I bought recently (so at the current market price), 10 min walking distance from the train station. I can afford premium quality food, I have enough money (and time !) to go on vacation 4 to 5 weeks per year (not just holidays but going abroad as a tourist). I own two cars. I’ll have a retirement.

Life hasn’t been cool on me on the last decade : I had to go under a 100+k surgery, I now take a treatment of about 150€/month. My grandmother had a stroke and is now living hospitalized under my dad’s roof. I did a burnout and stayed 1 year at home to recover. And you know what ? Everything of this had barely any impact on our finances. Everything health related : 0 impact.

Now everything is fine, my health is better, I still have strong savings, still own my house, my grandmother is greatly taken care of…

I would never exchange that for the extra 4k I could lose at any moment without notice because life.

Interesting because income and location wise I am in the same boat but there is no way in hell I will ever own a house. So my assumption is you likely have a partner with equal income which triples your free spendable income.

To be fully transparent, I do have a partner but she doesn’t earn as much as me, she earns less than 2k€/month.

You are right to make the point that I couldn’t afford this lifestyle if I were alone without a family. Though I’d have very few interest in owning a 120m2 family house in this case, I’d probably live in a way cheaper apartment. I think being alone in the French countryside would be pretty boring, unless you are lucky enough to be near your friends and family.

Also, my point was absolutely not to compare European vs American lifestyle, saying which is better or going into the details, I just wanted to stress that comparing comfort of life by comparing revenue is not possible. It’s way more complex than "European earns less but don’t have to pay for healthcare".

> For example, in the US the plumber pays for health care. In Europe he mostly does not.

More like in the US he pays for private health insurance (and/or he is covered by Medicare/Medicaid). In Europe he pays for public health system, something like 5% of his earnings, and he may choose to buy private health insurance on top of that (as many do) because the public health system is in shambles.

The point being that the health amount is already removed from the net salary. So when comparing net salaries it's important to understand what has already been paid for.

Yes, some people top up with private health. That is a discretionary spend. And while areas in Europe may vary, public health services are typically good.

The view for the future is cutting the US into city-states that they control. They are just following the playbook of Curtis Yarvin.

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