graz.io
I built a wireless, split, ultra-low profile keyboard from scratch called Bayleaf. As a beginner I learned all things electronics, PCB-building, designing for manufacturing, and many other hardware-related skills to put this together.
This case study dives into the build process and of course the final result, hope you enjoy!
In this regard, I found Microsoft Sculpt really good because it ticked all ergonomic boxes but it didn't require relearning. However, quality was a bit subpar, it didn't offer a wired option, and it has been discontinued. The entire lineup was actually sold to Incase, who are releasing it again soon.
Very much so. I went through 10+ keyboards before finding one that I could type on for a day without aching joints. The only one that passed (which I'm typing this comment on), was the lowest out of all of them. Cheap Aliexpress keyboard, but it's maybe 4mm from table to keyboard. For those in a similar situation that want to try it, it's this one [1]. Definitely not "high quality", but saved me from inability to type.
Question for the keyboard-knowledgeable: it claims in this picture [2] to use scissor keys but the picture of its insides are pretty meaningless to me. Does their claim look to hold up?
[1] https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006265944802.html
[2] https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/Sf4d150eda2c4441490535d5f17ebfbfc...
But I don't think that being low-profile was what was nice on the joints with that keyboard, but rather the presence of the palm rest which didn't force the wrists to bend upwards.
I now type on a "gaming" keyboard with full-size cherry switches, which is quite thick, and I don't have any wrist pain. Some 12 years ago, I used to have an Apple keyboard which was hell on my wrists, despite being quite low profile. The Apple didn't have a palm rest, the mech one does.
As to your typing speed remark, I suppose you already know that you don't have to bottom out your keys. I find I type faster on my mechanical keyboard than on laptops, and it's also easier on my fingers since there's no shock from bottoming out. It takes a while to get used to not press the keys all the way, but it's a much more pleasant experience. It's also quieter than the random HP domed keyboards we have at work or any laptop.
I think low profile is worse on joints in the long run. It probably isn't a universal truth.
I’m sure the devils in the details.
I picked up a Let's Split v2[0] when it came out years ago and never soldered it up.. maybe it's time!
[0]https://shop.beekeeb.com/product/lets-split-v2-keyboard-pcb-...
Moving to the mouse and back is pain enough that people go all-in on keyboard-only interfaces.
I velcroed a trackpad to the middle of a Kinesis Advantage. Now I use either hand for the mouse, and even stretch a finger or thumb to the pad without leaving the keys. The movement is little different from using the keyboard.
But for split keyboard, you'd need one trackpad for each side, and in dimensions not readily available. hmm.
I have a ErgoDox EZ, and I still prefer using my Framework 13 (with Kanata![0]) because having my thumbs navigate the trackpad is so convenient even with a keyboard-driven setup.
We should bring that back, I think I like it more than the thinkpad style
I might be at the other extreme end, but even typing on glass doesn't bother me much, and laptop keyboards are a good compromise to have just enough travel and not too much.
I tried a nuphy low profile and it was tiring after a while. The thinkpad standalone trackpoint keyboard has been my go to for a while, and tgis keyboard also looks great to me.
I was surprised as anyone when an Apple keyboard became my gaming keyboard.
I want this keyboard to put on a bookshelf and never use, haha. It is really nice looking. It sounds like it was an incredible learning experience and making something so polished and professional looking is a real accomplishment. But low profile, no pads, ortho layout, and no tenting… my eyes ache for the beauty of the thing but my hands just ache.
But anyway, ergonomics are personal so I can’t really judge.
I agree with the tenting remark, I can understand the preference against low profile, but I sincerely believe ortholinear is way better for one's hands than staggered. Maybe you mean it's a shame it's not columnar?
> ...ergonomics are personal...
Hear, hear!
[1]: https://wiki.c2.com/?RemapCapsLock
[2]: https://www.reddit.com/r/vim/comments/1442ads/mapping_capslo...
So I guess that means that the position formerly occupied by caps lock is now... 'a'? I haven't bothered to configure a caps lock. Haven't needed it.
Bonus, this is all handled in the keyboard firmware so I don't have to bother reconfiguring the OS. I just plug in the keyboard wherever and I'm all set.
So while I like your advice... I may be too far gone to take it. I can still type on a normal keyboard with their silly staggered rows to prevent typewriter jams, but I don't think I'll ever go back to feeling like it's a good idea to do so.
[1]: Writing the GP comment I was cautious not to be that rando who goes “you’re doing it all wrong! you gotta reconfigure your whole system and your brain!” to a stranger, so I limited myself to the, IMHO, bare minimum advice. ;)
My next step on this path, if I ever take it, probably resembles your setup. If/when I take it, I'll explore the modifiers on home row approach, it does sound nice :)
There's also a common misconception that it's ergonomic to angle a keyboard "upward" (elevating the back of the keyboard), when correct ergonomics is actually to angle the keyboard downwards (elevate the front).
See if you have a long object a little shorter than your foam cushion that you can scotch tape to the bottom of the front of a low-profile Apple keyboard, so that you still use the foam cushion but the front of the keyboard is at the same level as the cushion, and then angles downwards.
And then you get the advantages of the short key travel, which just means your fingers move less and so there's less force/strain.
You may find it shockingly comfortable!
you can easily find MX switches that have equal or +- 0.5mm travel lenght as low-profiles ones... which considering how thin PCB (and even handwired) flat keyboards are, i can't see the point unless you are supporting your arms in the same table your keyboard is! i rather have my arms floating so i can use shoulder and elbow movement for distant keys other than wrist movements but who cares :P
[0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00036...
It doesn't. But to clarify: it should always be downwards relative to your forearm. And your forearm should be generally be about horizontal (or a little bit downwards is OK too).
A keyboard that is angled upwards puts constant strain on the top of your wrist. There are no circumstances where this is a good thing (assuming you don't have injury/disability that requires other accommodations).
Also, your link is about mice not keyboards, and about angling mice sideways. It has no relevance to angling keyboards up/down. (But yes, "vertical" mice, that are angled in reality, are much better too.)
> Also, your link is about mice not keyboards, and about angling mice sideways
the author points out another research, i should have linked it instead of that one [1]... but it's about the ideal slanted angle considering how our muscles are structured; the author even cites that suggestions as something not taking relative preferences, which is totally fair as some people may use their computers for a short time in very awkward positions and that's fine
[0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S10506...
[1] yet about mouse but please take your time to read what's was typed in the paper regarding the slant angle suggestion -- https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S02680...
That's what I said ("your forearm should be generally be about horizontal (or a little bit downwards is OK too)"). Never upward.
> which if it's > 90°, an front angulation doesn't make sense at all.
If you want a 10° downwards angle on the keyboard relative to your forearm and your forearm is 5° upwards, then your keyboard still needs 5° downward relative to your desk. If your desk is so high that your forearms are angled up 20° from the horizontal, then something is extremely wrong with your chair/desk height.
And your first link supports exactly what I wrote:
> The natural position of your hands with respect to the relative vertical position at the wrist is along the plane or below it (i.e. you want the tips of your fingers to be at the same height as your wrist or preferably slightly lower). When your hand rises above this plane (making the hand signal for 'STOP'), this is called dorsiflexion or wrist extension. This greatly reduces blood flow through the wrist and can quickly cause pain, fatigue and numbness. Most keyboards have a 'foot' located at the back of the keyboard which is not desirable as it creates a positively inclined keyboarding surface. Many articulating arms offer the option of a negative inclination, which will make the entire work surface slope away from you, ensuring that your hands are not 'bent' upward at the wrist.
And I don't know why you've added another link about sideways mouse slant. That has nothing to do with up-down keyboard/arm angle. If there's some relevant sentence in it, please quote it, because I can find nothing relevant in the publicly available text.
You ask me to "please take your time to read" -- I suggest you take the time to re-read your own first link. It makes clear there is no situation where a keyboard angled upwards (the back of the keyboard elevated) is good ergonomics -- exactly what I said.
on the 2° paper, > Among the five tested mice, the 25° or 30° slanted mice caused lower muscle activity and more neutral working postures for ECU, Trap and PT muscles.
these muscles are also used during keyboard usage. slant angle is always suggested on ergonomic research, as our arms muscles are tensioned/twisted when using a flat keyboard/mouse... you can easily find research pointing slant angle on ergonomic keyboards but the research i pointed out is interesting as the author actually studied which is the optimal angle based on our anatomy (there's tension/forces on greater slant angles to maintain the posture, as there aren't surfaces to support our hand) and not on individual preference
And yes -- slanting the keyboard that way is usually called keyboard tenting. Also highly recommended, but difficult to implement in practice because it requires an even lower base for the keyboard, and there aren't many good accessories out there for it, sadly...
I'm still waiting for someone to sell a cheap kit for angling keyboards downwards and implementing tenting. It's kind of complex to do both at once...
Been toying with the idea of getting something 3d-printed, basically something just as high as a Macbook, that you can attach to the front of it, giving a flush surface. Even better would be carving a Macbook-bottom-shaped or external keyboard-shaped "recess" into a table to place it into.
Ever seen or heard of anything like this?
The downside is that you really need to get your desk way low for your arms to naturally "droop" down over that. I have a motorized sit-stand desk I bought specifically after comparing specs on how low the desk surface can go, and the position that's low enough while seated is basically as low as my knees will let it go. A separate keyboard tray would be great but they rarely have room for the footprint and height of a tented keyboard with a touchpad in the middle.
Standing up, it's a lot easier to find a good height.
I want to be able to buy them as an adhesive add-on for any (split) keyboard!
If you want to get your keyboard and desk ergonomics correct, look at pianists. They have it nailed down. Elbows at right angle, no wrist supports, sitting straight. And guess what, the piano keyboards are not upwards-tilting! Unfortunately, most of our desks are too high relative to the chairs we sit in.
If you compare it to the Apple Magic Keyboard I'm typing on now – and that seems like a definite inspiration for the Bayleaf – it's a stark contrast. The K3, for example, is more than twice as tall (10.9mm vs 22mm backrow). The Magic Keyboard feels fine to type on without any sort of wrist support and I never feel any strain. But on the K3, even with a support (tried both their wooden support and a similarly sized foam one), I would feel strain after an hour or two.
Most low-profiles are really just a middle ground between the two sides. And, at least in my experience, you get the downsides of both without any of the positives of either.
Keyboards are such a good hobby project. The scope is comparatively small, yet within that scope you get in contact with many different and highly interesting subjects and challenges. And you can more or less pick and choose, which ones you engage with (wireless vs wired, soldering vs hand-wired, custom firmware vs. ZMK/QMK, split vs. traditional).
Did you consider Mill-Max Sockets?
My personal favorite are 80% TKL ISO low profile keyboards, which is quite uncommon and I've not found much except the
Keychron K1 Max
So I also thought about a custom solution. I found pretty impressive open source firmware and pcbs [1], but I noticed that I just didn't have the time to do all this. Since keyboards are so an individual device, manufacturing bigger batches is risky and manufacturing smaller batches is expensive... so pretty much no choice than waiting for someone having the same dream as I have or do it myself after shoving free enough time.
Take your time, the GAS is real and expensive !
All jokes aside, ordering small batches of PCBs is unfortunately very expensive, especially if you have a larger size.
If you ever feel the itch of going towards ergonomic split keyboards, you'll find plenty of ~40% splits that use reversible PCBs for both halves which allows for cheap batches. Typically you get 5 PCBs with JLC and that gives you enough to build one full keyboard for work and one for home.
Unlikely. I caught my [nearly perfect] unicorn, but I'm not telling you what it is, because a.) it is too embarrassing and b.) don't wanna ruin your chase :-)
There are some hints I can tell you though:
+ it's low profile (Kailh)
+ it's TKL 80% and 100%
+ it's available ANSI and ISO
+ it's wireless
o it's not split (I like it this way but it depends on personal taste)
- it's NOT hot swappable
- it's not QMK / ZMK
For other split-mechanical keyboards check out:
ZSA Voyager
Moergo Glove 80
Edit: nevermind, I just learned that the advantage360 pro uses ZMK as well. Either way, they both seem like great options for people who prioritize the ergonomics over aesthetics :)
For keyboards really similar to OP's
The keyboard they were inspired by (not for sale... yet?): https://old.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/comments/1cfg3vr/...
Corneish (out of stock): https://lowprokb.ca/products/corne-ish-zen?variant=376943319... Unicorne: https://new.boardsource.xyz/products/unicorne-LP
The corneish is an absolute gem in my opinion. It is possibly (probably?) open-sourced too.
Ambients Silent Choc Switches (20g Linear), keycaps from worklouder (Pure)
Me, too. I feel there's a lot of us who want precisely this. I want every key that's on the Magic Keyboard. I already have a number of other Karabiner bindings, like the Hyper key, so I'm adding "layers" that way.
Questions: - Do you have nkey rollover? - Would you accept "optional" wires? Note: gaming requires fast response times. Hell even programming/writing sucks when there's key lag.
ZMK supports N-key rollover and layers.
With 60% keyboards, you are often using modifier layers baked into the keyboards' firmware to get back your function keys and your control block like page up
In the nav layer. One popular layout of split keyboards is two 3x5 grids of keys with 3 thumb buttons. With this configuration, it is common to map modifier keys to the home row keys, activated when they are held down. Likewise, for numbers, symbols, navigation, a thumb key is held down to activate that layer. Your fingers never have to stretch more than one key-length away.
Miryoku is a popular implmentation of this. It looks crazy, but you can get used to it really quickly, or alter it to your own taste.
If that's not appealing to you, there's probably no reason to get into it. If it is appealing to you to live mostly on your homerow, then the learning curve is not all that great, maybe a couple of months.
For something so thin, your soldering woes aren't surprising. The standard way to manage that would have been to solder everything in one go on a hot plate (reflow soldering).
one of the most satisfying things to watch
I think this method is also highly specific to these switches. They are known for being difficult to solder with hobby-tier equipment.
Totally have been here done that. While my aesthetics are a bit different than yours, the core idea is very similar. I just imagined if Nuphy and Planck would have a twin and come up with this. I was on a budget so I basically said fuck it to the thickness and just kept the size small. Everything was FDM and I even had a 3d printable pcb-not-so-pcb if you can’t wait at all. This runs zmk for full wireless experience, uses an nrf controller and have a battery life of over a month. I even had custom keycap with stickers on it so I can lookup rarely used keys.
PS. The only cons or why I am not running this for everything is that you kind of need 2 hand to do certain things like pause the music or adjusting volume.
Photo: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZwvTO3jMyY0JBKoYrA88sJk-7SX...
They're worth it though!
In hindsight, the biggest issue I ran into switching keyboards was that I was too ambitious playing around with the key configuration. The configurability is a big draw but I took for granted that I had already built up years of natural tendency for certain things - which thumb I use for space, preferences for Ctrl/Alt/Command/Option, for Shift, etc.
The default for these keyboards probably don't 100% align with what you're used to, so you should directly map what you're doing currently over to the keymap of the keyboard and then you can fiddle with making it yours over time.
I will say that if you're not already a touch typer, then a split keyboard is not going to help and it will be more difficult to get used to.
edit: also, if anything, going columnar helped me actually consistently hit number keys!
In my case, going from a regular keyboard to a split one like he Raise[1] took me 10 minutes of adaption time. My second split one was (is) a columnar (the Defy[2]), and I must confess that the adaption time was something like three days. Mostly because I kept failing to correctly push a few keys (like the C). Now I can indistinctly work with a columnar or a stagged one with zero problem. In fact, I usually use both types many days.
That said, I thought that the change would make me feel more comfortable, but to be honest in my case the difference is not big at all.
Now I'm about a year and a half later and am up to 140wpm. I think the biggest problem for me on the standard keyboard is the bottom row index fingers and pinkies, the "natural" motion of my fingers lands right in between the two keys on those fingers so I used to make a lot of mistakes there, especially when typing fast.
You mention possibly mass producing the next round. Please add a notify email list or something. I'd be all over this.
The plastic laminate of my ergodoxen was stiff, sturdy, and heavy. The exposed bolts were a little industrial. Very much had a DIY look.
My Lily58 started out with the PCB "case" which is horrible. Way too flexible, and switches falling out as soon as you attempted to transport it. (Easy transport was my main motivation for the smaller keyboard.)
Eventually, I was able to convince someone on Etsy to print me a 3d case for it. It is ok. Much better than the PCBs. However, switches still have a tendency to pop out when moving the keyboard.
The case on the Bayleaf makes me wonder if other keyboards could do a better job with case offerings.
I've always gone with wired keyboards because dealing with batteries seems annoying.
Looking at this keyboard makes me realize that I've optimized for functionality but this beauty is optimized for form.
You can even get them to 3D print metal parts with an SLM process, although that's on the pricier side.
for hobby businesses like most of these weird little keyboards, adding $200 to the parts cost is a real stretch, considering their already niche appeal and limited capital for investment
:sobbing:
I hope someone builds / sells this! Instant buy for me, if so.
> Are you planning to sell this keyboard at scale?
> Dependent on the reception, likely yes. But it wont be exactly this design. A second iteration is in the works with improved sound profile and ergonomics. Stay tuned.
I use this with a small slim keychron keyboard and with a kinesis advantage 360.
The roller seems to be getting a bit sticky after 6 months of heavy use and transporting it between work and home. Nonetheless, would get another in a heartbeat.
Perhaps worth a look?
Do you happen to know of a resource around this topic? I'd love to know what the actual lowest travel switches are. In my experience it's the Macbook's.
What an apt typo :)
It seems to stem from the idea that stagger is a hangover from the typewriter, in which it was required to make room for the mechanics, and that if we didn’t need to make them like that, we wouldn’t have.
Hence the keys should be lined up so your fingers just move up and down.
However I think this has 2 problems.
1) Most ortho keyboards have 5 columns for 4 fingers.
2) In stagger I use different fingers to strike the same letter dependent on what the preceding letter was, so that I almost never use the same finger twice in a row. You can’t do this in ortho if the 2 letters are in the same column, leading to more repeated strikes from the same finger.
Which I would expect is both slower and more straining.
But maybe my technique is weird, or haven’t given the ortho enough time.
(if you like ortho, good for you, not trying to spoil your fun, just musing)
So if this sort of stagger is good, do we want top left stagger on one side, and top right stagger on the other?
The comfortable level of stagger is individual. I just can't with ortho but I guess it's a good fit for some folks' hands. For most of us, middle finger rests comfortably in a higher spot than pinky does. Just look at your hand. You won't really know until you try yourself.
What theory of ortho? It's merely a rejection of stagger. Stagger represents our unwillingness to try new things even if the old thing makes no sense whatsoever.
OK, attitude aside now: for me it's partly about the ability to find keys by feel. With stagger you can learn touch typing one row above the home row and one row below the home row, no problem. But when you start trying to learn touch typing for the number row the difficulty jumps up significantly, because the nonsensical stagger makes it difficult to feel your way up the column.
So the benefits of ortho, according to me:
- It's easier to touch type once you eliminate the stagger, especially when deviating more than one row.
- Being better able to feel your way around helps with gaming, as does removing the stagger from WASD.
- Being straightened out allows you to map a numpad over the keys, to be invoked with a function key. I tried this with stagger and it was awful.
- I just dig the way it looks. It's like a lazy cartoon drawing of a keyboard.
It's the same story with RP2040 Pro Micros for wired QMK builds, there's a huge "keyboard tax" if you get the ones marketed for that purpose.
There are a few low-profile legended keycap sets around but they typically only cover the "top" layer, which is the easiest to remember anyway. If you want legends which show every function of every key you'd have to get them custom laser etched to match your personal keymap.
It's a really good split keyboard with symbols printed (optional).
At this point I'm very happy with UHK's layout and features, but every once in a while I wonder if a low-profile wireless 60% would be cool.
Software is as critical as hardware: The UHK supports holding a key down to select a different keymap layer, then using the other hand to tap a key in that layer. While few people learn many-key chording, "one finger each hand" is every bit as easy as ordinary typing, with practice. This supports an n^2 expansion in effective keyboard reach. I'm surprised this isn't the norm for selecting Chinese/Japanese characters.
The question is: How well? I'm not entirely happy with my QMK firmware implementation. Tap-hold is the antithesis of n-key rollover; one needs to learn to properly nest key-down, key-up events. It's easy to switch from a clarinet (cleanly cover holes) to a saxophone (slap pads), but hard switching back. And we've all learned to type like we're on a saxophone, relying on n-key rollover to cover many sins.
I now use QMK firmware with Hasu controllers for multiple Leopold FC660C keyboards with Topre Silent 45g "rubber dome" key switches. After trying dozens of mechanical key switches, I found that nothing feels like a Topre switch.
And here's the kicker: The physical form factor doesn't matter so much if your fingers rarely go far from home row, which is what tap/hold facilitates.
How is that different to what QMK/ZMK offer?
Being able to modify each button, in each layer has it's downsides tho: if I'm ever on a keyboard other than my own, I can barely type anymore!
I've edited away my most common typos on my keyboard layout, eg the key that's normally caps lock is just another shift key in my keyboard, since I find only ever use that key by mistake.
Now when I'm on another keyboard I hit it all the time, since I'm so used to it not being a problem
That said, I have kept the number row labelled. These keys are not obscured by your hands and they can give you the necessary frame of reference. The ideal trade-off for me.
I still forget where the symbols are regularly, which ends up evening out my typing speed versus sticking with qwerty.
The other thing is that many keys will have multiple functions - so what do you print on them? e.g. my j key also doubles as # and the down key. Some are maybe even more frequently used key combinations, e.g. I have a ``` and a => key
It's just kind of unnecessary when you can just learn the layout. It's not a big deal, I've used blank keycaps for almost two decades across multiple different layouts.
I ask myself where I expected it to be, then update the keyboard accordingly. Eventually it doesn’t happen anymore.
I had already used and made my first prototype and realized my thumb cluster was not positioned right and not comfortable for use. So I have the PCBs for the Prototype 2 where the entire bottom row is shifted in. I learned a lot about PCB design and MCUs through this. Yours looks SOOO much better laid out compared to mine too.
Old pictures of prototype 1: https://photos.app.goo.gl/VhqQmjGyzTeBbKFQ9 ( have top and bottom plates, i just never used them because i found the thumb cluster issue quickly) (there is an ErgoDash pictured too that I used previously, modded to be wireless)
Life, becoming a father, moving to a different country, and so many things have put this project on hold, but I will finish it soon.
Putting the micro-controllers at the far ends means the rest of the board can be lower, meaning less need for palm supports. Also I like you NOT having OLED screens - they're toys at best and one more thing to break at worse.
As for Ortho VS Staggered, ortho has the great advantage of things like WASD just being usable out of the box, and also flexibility with things like numpad layers. I've printed paper cut outs of things like the ferris sweep to see if pinky stagger would be comfortable for me, and the answer was negative. Probably very hand dependent.
Curious why aluminium and not steel? Steel is a heavier, and also has less of that pingy noise, though I have no idea about machining so perhaps it's a no go.
Steel is likely better and surely stronger, but manufacturers charge 2x more for steel alloy machining. At that price level, titanium also becomes an interesting option.
> Typing on the keyboard is very comfortable due to it’s low height. No more wrist arching.
Fully agreed. I went through many keyboards, from very expensive to very cheap, until I found the one my joints were okay with, and I think it was the lowest height of all. A cheap no-name, straight from Aliexpress. I think it's even lower than yours - hard to measure, but looks like ~4mm from table to top of keys. You can tell from the size of the USB-C port [1].
[1] https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/Sffc2751fa6184967aaa16f2a629ca166...
One challenge I’ve seen with wireless keyboards (especially splits) is managing synchronization lag between halves. Some DIY split builds struggle with Bluetooth interference, while others use NRF-based communication. What approach did you take to keep latency low and ensure reliable keypress synchronization? Also, how does the power efficiency compare to something like a ZMK-powered split?
But in my case, let's say I don't have any numbers on the keyboard. Instead, I use modifier keys to create a layer for numeric values. So, when I press a modifier on the left, the computer won't notice. Then, pressing what would normally be the U key on the right sends a 7 instead. The computer just sees a 7 being pressed.
However, before addressing that, like keyboards other HID peripherals are not directly part of the hardware. They connect to computers via USB or Bluetooth, and to do so, keyboards must have an internal chip, "a brain" even just for communication, let alone scanning keyboard matrix. This is similar to how a mouse processes sensor data internally rather than relying on the computer to interpret it. As a result, they can be used on almost any smart device with USB or Bluetooth.
Since we already have this extra chip, "brain", we can add personalized custom logic to simplify our lives and give our hands and wrists a break. This is similar to how gaming mice reduce DPI when the aim button is pressed or how old joysticks had an auto-fire button.
Shh! The computer doesn’t need to know ;)
I press modifier on keyboard A, keyboard A sends key press event to the OS. I press key on keyboard B, keyboard B sends key press event to the OS. I release key on keyboard B, keyboard B sends key release event to the OS. I release modifier on keyboard A, keyboard A sends key release event to the OS.
From the sequence of events, the OS knows that a key was pressed with the modifier and can act accordingly e.g. emit an event downstream that corresponds to the key that should be generated when pressing a modifier.
Scanning the keyboard matrix is no concern for the OS.
Your example is valid, and I acknowledged that it’s correct in my first reply. I also added that, in these types of keyboards, there could be special logic to compensate for missing keys or provide additional features for comfort or ergonomic reasons. This means the keys need to communicate with each other and send the final keystroke afterward.
I also noted that almost all keyboards are not entirely "dumb" and include at least a processing unit to scan the matrix—something you agreed they should have—as well as to handle USB or Bluetooth communication. This processing unit can easily be used for the reasons I mentioned above, without requiring extra hardware or additional software/drivers on the OS side. This approach offers a modular, OS-agnostic way to create a custom solution for comfort or ergonomic needs.
I'm also using nice!nanos in my projects, and they're great little devices. At this point I'd love there to be a good alternative using a dongle, though... I have a desktop PC that I want to use them with, and since they can't connect via Bluetooth at boot time, I always have to connect them to select a boot option and unlock my ZFS drive.
Having an affordable or open source controller that can do split as well as nice!nanos, but also switch between Bluetooth and a dongle is like the holy grail to me. I'd instantly buy 10.
https://caseend.com/data/acat/acat-x2
Almost 1-1 in dimensions but with thicker panels
Usually "low profile" is used generously in mechanical keyboard land
But you also probably should have printed 2x as many keys and split them up for making two copies.
So you need some sort of sealant on the keys? Or maybe just a flame polish?
And the following subs were great for general CAD/Electronic knowledge
* https://www.youtube.com/@Fusion360School * https://www.youtube.com/@adafruit * https://www.youtube.com/@Borgedesigns * https://www.youtube.com/@TheFusionEssentials * https://www.youtube.com/@joe_scotto
Great writeup as well - thanks for sharing!
I needed an enclosure for a project recently and went with modifying a stock ABS enclosure - but I'd love to use machined aluminium! You mentioned you're in the EU - did PCBway deliver from the US, or from closer to home? Also, how much did the enclosure cost please?
One feature I decided was a requirement is holding me up. I really want pogo pins on the sides of the keyboards, so that they magnetically attach and the left will charge the right.
How do you charge the left and the right since they require separate cables?
https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Connector-Positions-Pogopin-...
Each battery should probably have their own charging circuit anyway. So the pogo pins should be 5V and ground coming directly from the USB 5V line.
My main reaction when seeing this was "this is not for me." In terms of the layout, no labels, etc. I'm actually surprised to see how many people seemingly have no problem with this.
Beautiful keyboard.
Sent from my Allium58 Low Profile :D
I know quite a few people who would buy if you ever produced even 10 of them. Part 2 having charging magnets would seem good. Me personally, I don't have 2 usb-c ports lying around that aren't already used :P
I use neither. I’m @volemo@mathstodon.xyz.
The cost of all the tools and software I did not track but I would guess I invested somewhere around $1K which includes software licenses, shipping, new tools etc.
But I find tracking the cost of research a bit impractical as it doesn't include indirect costs like billable hours that I technically could have spent on clients etc.
I would buy one at a premium price point, if you’re interested in a market data point.
That arrangement means the peripheral side gets significantly better battery life than the primary, so ZMK also has an optional "dongle" mode where you connect a third ZMK device directly to the PC over USB, which acts as the primary, and then both sides of the keyboard act as peripherals so they both sip power.
As a bonus the dongle mode also means the PC sees it as a wired keyboard so it works in the BIOS, etc.
one feature I would really like to see is multi-device connectivity/switching like the Logitech MX Keys. Outside of that, this keyboard is my grail board. Looking forward to keeping up with this project!
(Typed on a Lily58)
However... ever since transitioning to an ergonomic/curved keyboard I don't think that I could ever go back to a traditional layout, even moreso for ortholinear.
edit: I'll note I prefer the 65-68% keyboards where it has the dedicated arrow keys
You can see the video. There is no stagger and no tilting and the person is clearly typing at an angle.
That's useful market information, but note that in the "How much did it cost?" section he points out that the BOM is ~$400 not including labor, tools, or shipping. Going from extremely low-volume to moderately low-volume might reduce material cost slightly, but I'd still expect him to have to charge at least $400 just to break even.
More generally, I've never seen a low-volume split wireless keyboard for less than $200 and the closest in design I can think of would be https://lowprokb.ca/products/corne-ish-zen which had a base price of $320 before pricing in keyswitches or keycaps.
It's totally reasonable that this is your price point and everyone is different -- some people would never pay more than a hundred bucks for a keyboard, whereas I have a couple keyboards that are more expensive than the computers they're connected to.
I'm also talking about PCB + case only. The case is the biggest cost driver here, a simple FRT plate case would make my kit price reasonable with a healthy margin
Also add the atrocious security record of HID, and I assume wireless typing is easily intercepted.
Then I realized I could just buy two Magic Keyboards and use them at the same time -- typing on the left half of the left one, and the right half of the right one.
After all, the proper ergonomic position is for your forearms to be parallel (not angled inward), which means the keyboard halves you're using should be approximately shoulder-width apart, so there's tons of room to use both without them colliding.
Once I figured it out, I felt like an idiot for not figuring it out a decade earlier. I'm never going back.
https://karabiner-elements.pqrs.org/
So I'll e.g. page down by holding Fn on the left keyboard and down arrow on the right.
Magic keyboards are $100 new. Or $30-40 on eBay used.
Split keyboards are more. They're niche so they're more expensive.
I have these ultra thin bt keyboards that came in a leather ipad case from Restoration Hardware... SUPER THIN.
These bitches better have a lot of magnets! (oh saw that in future. and the LED thingy -- if you can have a display in the side panels, that would be nifty - and a second BT object? Whereby the display in the side panels is BT to phone and thus get distractions.
my problem with small super thin BT keyboards is that the materials are too slippy -- so a tacky-ish finish so they dont slide around when on a surface such as a pant leg or so...
also, a curved version of this would be great for a sleave version - with magnets so that you slap one on your fore-arm. could even have power/connectivity coming from wires in the garment that they attach to.
Magnets basically. Need lots.
--
what if... since the thing is so small, the actual object is the mouse? So you can choose l/r object and then just grab it and mouse about?