Apple introduces iPad Air with powerful M3 chip and new Magic Keyboard | Hacker News Reader

Apple introduces iPad Air with powerful M3 chip and new Magic Keyboard

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100 pointspraseodym245 comments

I just want an 11" Macbook air again. Even with the M2 it would fly. iPads with this horsepower just don't make sense. It's like a V8 Miata with 4 donuts for tires.

That sounds sweet ride.

Or a 12” MacBook - Apple is missing both 11” and 12” options.

Or let us run Mac apps on the darn iPad.

> Or let us run Mac apps on the darn iPad.

Pretty sure it would kill battery life, and play very poorly with their suspend-wake functionality.

M-series Macs suspend and wake very, very quickly.

Overall I think the form factor of the 12” MacBook was superior to that of the 11” Air. Similar footprint, but better aspect ratio and much better pixel density.

An M-series 12” would be amazing. Or heck, with how powerful A-series SoCs are these days, even one of those would likely be sufficient and yet far more efficient and powerful than those awful Intel CPUs the original 12” was saddled with.

While they're at it, bring back the 17" Macbook

I „found“ a MacBook 12“ Retina from 2015 at home a few weeks ago. Size wise that's the sweet spot for me. Would totally buy such a device running on Apple silicon. In the end I sold it for 50 Euro after tinkering with Pop!_OS and ultimately realizing that the processor is way too slow for Java development nowadays.

They make more money from selling you all the add-on dongles

Give me a MB with LTE and I can finally stop buying&regretting iPads.

Maybe Apple moving into the modem space will get us there but it does feel like some sort of purposeful market segmentation

Just tether to your phone

yes ive done it just more finicky annoyance

why segment iPad vs Mac this way

TIL if you plug your iphone into your mac, it will automatically switch to mobile data, if you have hotspot on, even if you have wifi. Wasn't exactly delighted to find out.

I’ve never seen that behavior without configuration. Can you reproduce that reliably?

Whenever someone expresses a desire for Apple to produce a macbook with a 5G or LTE modem, someone always responds with "tether to your phone" or "use a hotspot" and I don't find these comments particularly useful.

Hotspot/tethered data is a separate pool from general mobile data. Once you've consumed the guaranteed "high" speeds (60GB on AT&T's current Unlimited Premium Plan), all hotspot speeds are then hard capped at 128Kbps. AFAIK you can't even purchase additional data at these speeds if you wanted to. Mobile data on an iPhone or iPad won't have that hard cap. Although in the past, once the guaranteed 5G speeds were consumed, your mobile data speed was simply deprioritized but could still achieve 5G speeds based on current network conditions/congestion.

There are scenarios where a notebook would need this much data and speed and there are Windows notebooks available for this purpose. The "just tether your phone" cohort either hasn't considered this or simply dismisses it because they may have not experienced this limitation personally. I suppose that Apple doesn't see the demand for a macbook with a mobile modem or otherwise doesn't see the need to make this option available.

> Hotspot/tethered data is a separate pool from general mobile data.

This is only true if your device has an anti-user feature that prioritizes your carrier's interest over your own. Most Android custom ROMs allows you to bypass this, and iirc jailbroken iPhones too.

The whole point of this is to stop you from using mobile data on your laptops. I find it hard to believe that Apple wouldn't collude with mobile carriers to implement restrictions if they do make such a device.

I want apple's version of connected standby - I want to open my laptop and all my notifications, emails, chats, photos whatever to have already been downloaded while the laptop was idle in my bag.

I spend all my time either with my laptop docked in the office, or at home, but I sometimes I need to bring my device with me. Such a laptop would be perfect for me.

I would love an 11" MacBook. The new chips are perfect for that form factor given they're so powerful & light on battery.

Were it not for constantly updated buying guides from tech news sites, Im not sure anyone even Apple employees themselves would know which iPad to recommend to anyone.

Studies have shown that when companies present an overwhelming number of choices, consumers often end up spending more. The psychology behind this is rooted in decision fatigue, where consumers are more likely to choose something familiar or assume that a more expensive product is the best choice.

I think I'm just going to fatigue myself back to my old Android phone and ancient iPad (of some sort) from the last decade...

"Studies" like what?

'The paradox of choice' says the exact opposite. When presented with more jams to sample, more groceries shoppers stopped to try, but less actually bought. Reducing decisions is conversion 101.

I have always heard of different conclusions from too many choices. It was from a study known as the "Jam Experiment." [0] They found that in a grocery store that if customers had six choices, they bought more jam than if there were 14 choices.

They termed it decision paralysis.

[0] https://scottfenstermaker.com/too-much-choice-the-jam-experi...

The version I'm familiar with was more about driving consumers to a middle-priced version by adding a more expensive version.

Offer version A at $10, and version B at $50, most people pick A.

Offer version A at $10, version B at $50, and version C at $25, most people pick C.

What you're referencing is usually called the decoy effect, which isn't the same as decision paralysis.

Never heard of decoy effect. Always referred to this phenomenon as “anchoring”

> Never heard of decoy effect. Always referred to this phenomenon as “anchoring”

Correct. The example they gave is anchoring.

Anchoring typically looks like $10-$25-$50, and they want you to buy the $25 item. Sometimes the presence of the $50 item can have zero sales, but the $25 item will sell better than if the options were just $10 and $25.

Decoy would be more like $10-$40-$50, and they want you to buy the $50 item and the $40 item has less than it’s sticker value. Decoy is commonly used to encourage people to buy at the top of their budget range (as one example).

Reminds me of Apple’s pricing scheme

Personally, when presented with too many choices, I always feel like some of the choices are the wrong ones - perhaps the cheap ones are garbage, or quite oppositely, you're paying an extra for nothing - and I'm afraid of being a fool for picking them.

No matter how it goes, it's always a negative experience for me.

This might apply to perishable consumer goods like soap and shampoo, which are cheap and have perfect substitutes. I don't think it would apply to expensive durable goods where more time and research goes into the purchase decision, and there are no perfect substitutes.

Ah, psychology.

Pretty sure that worked on me. I waited for the iPhone SE 4 (now called the 16E), then when I saw the feature set for the price, just went for the vanilla 16. This was while I was knowing exactly how the 16E was acting as a price anchor to move me to the next tier.

For a long time, Apple’s line up included an under powered option that’s too cheap to run well, an over-powered over-priced option with features most people don’t need, and a Goldilocks version.

Yes, the expensive version anchors the price higher, but it always felt like a gift, in that they had picked the middle version that balanced performance and price already.

Do not be addicted to metrics. Steve Jobs would tell you that while you might help profits in the short term, you're undermining the long term product experience. Don't sound like an executive whose compensation is tied to profit metrics. That is not the only form of success just because it's the most measurable. Measurability does not necessarily equate to most impact.

Interesting. A while ago I looked at laptops and when I looked at Dell and Lenovo I couldn't figure out how to choose between all the models (dozens or probably hundreds). Ended up with a Framework laptop.

Isn't it just a "price laddering" strategy.

Where you make the prices of a maxed out lower tier product be more expensive than a barebones higher tier, so it incentives you to "ladder up" your product choice.

Best explained by MKBHD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiNYOZZLOyg

I don't really see the value proposition for the iPad Pro. It's got powerful hardware, but I can't imagine myself doing any heavy work on a tablet.

People write comments like this often and I'm always wondering if they are just expressing that the device isn't for them or they don't think the device is for anybody.

There are so many devices out there that you can probably find the perfect thing for you. For some of us, the iPad Pro is a great choice.

Most of the people I see making the comments are round-about asking "what can I use to justify getting this, I want one."

I still feel that way about iPads in general, I keep wanting (and even buying) them, but never really do anything with them that I can't do with my phone.

@cridell - I think people write comments like this because, like me, they are trying to envision using the device as a replacement for the laptop...or as an additional augment and come up short. I know I do.

And for all that hardware it is disappointing that there are so many things it cannot do that you can do on MacOS and its really hard to envision what you can do.

My last ipad which admittedly was a v1 gathered dust. I really want a pro for whiteboarding...but gosh, its a lot to spend on a whiteboard....someone help me justify it as a PM.

OLED display.

There's also people who work in Procreate with a million layers and need all the horsepower and RAM they can get.

I guess OP's question is: If you need a million layers, and gigantic amounts of CPU and RAM, why aren't you working on a desktop workstation? I also had a hard time believing there's a real niche that tablets fill, but hey, they've been with us for years, so clearly somebody's buying them.

maybe because of the tight integration of the pencil with the display? You don't get that on a desktop device, even with a separate tablet.

People sometimes don't like to be working on creative stuff sitting on a workstation all the time, having hardware that allows to do it on-the-go, or easily move to other places can help to spark something.

For purely technical editing a workstation is probably unbeatable but if you need to find inspiration there's very few things less inspiring than sitting on the same desk, within the same environment, day-in and day-out.

I think it's probably aimed at people using them to create digital art.

100%. It's a powerhouse for drawing.

Great for artists, mostly useless for developers

The iPad and Surface are *everywhere* in education and healthcare. Just yesterday I donated blood on a mobile health unit entirely ran on iPads and verizon hotspots. Every k-12 and some high ed sysadmins can tell you about having to manage iPads and JAMF at some point.

It is much nicer tho than generic one. Hard to explain how.

Well, Apple employees can’t work remotely :) But if you do, and you like working outside your house, the cheapest 10+-inch M-series model you can get is the answer. With Sidecar, it’s at minimum a wireless external display everywhere you go.

At this new model’s cost, it’s hard to recommend. But it does make last year’s M2 models (and older M1 models) more sensible for this purpose.

Reminds me of when Steve cut all the numerical suffixes from the product line and drew the grid:

               home   work
    
    portable  iBook | PowerBook
              -----------------
     desktop   iMac | PowerMac

And in 2010 before Jobs passed there was already the MacBook, MacBook Air and MacBook Pro for laptops

And for desktops, the Mac Mini, iMac and MacPro.

For phones, Apple was selling the 3G, 3GS, and iPhone 4.

For iPods, they were selling the Shuffle, Nano, regular iPod and the iPod Touch.

So selling three regular iPads and the Mini is nothing different now.

All the products except maybe the 3G/3GS are clearly differentiated. What is new is having several iPads that are nearly indistinguishable from each other without Apple's comparison tool.

How can you tell the difference between the 3G and 3GS except for speed?

Do you know off the top of your head the difference between the MacBook and MacBook Pro at the time? Would you have known then?

Jobs passed the day the iPhone 4S was released and they were selling the 3GS, 4 and 4S. I’m sure he had something to do with the lineup. The 4 and the 4S were indistinguishable from the outside and the 4S and was only faster.

As far as iPads…

iPad - $350, slowest processor, worse screen of the three iPads

iPad Air - $799, higher price, faster processor (M3), more memory, better screen (anti reflective coating), choice of larger screen

iPad Pro - $1199, higher price, better screen with higher refresh rate and slightly higher resolution, better processor (M3 vs M4), better camera, faster USB C, Face ID, better speakers.

The MacBook and MacBook Pro used to be immediately distinguishable from each other because one was made of plastic, and the other was aluminum. I'm not suggesting it should've remained that way, but it was clear to the consumer which one was which. The Air/Pro laptop lineup is still rather distinct to this day.

I won't defend how fragmented the iPhone lineup has gotten around the 3GS/4/4S, but the iPad is much worse, because again it's not immediately obvious which one is better without a comparison tool.

And the iPad Pro and iPad Air is distinguishable by TouchID vs FaceID and a better screen and smaller bezels. By looks, how are you suppose to tell the difference between two all screen devices?

The iPad Pro vs iPad Air seem distinguishable from each other, yes, but there's the iPad (A16) and mini muddying the lineup.

For example, the mini costs more than A16 iPad yet lacks a landscape center stage camera — but also has features the even more expensive Air doesn't, like true tone flash on the 12MP camera.

The iPad lineup is a mess, and spending more money can lead to getting less features. The iPhone lineup is pretty messy too, but the iPad situation is particularly terrible, and sales peaked years ago.

You can look at the Mini and tell whether you want a smaller iPad. Miniaturization has come at a premium forever.

And would you propose that Apple doesn’t offer a cheap iPad for bulk purchases and kids? A lot of computing devices are the same externally and distinguished by slower processors and less internal features.

I would propose a lineup where spending more money won't result in less features.

Between the iPad -> iPad Air -> iPad Pro, which one gives you less features as you spend more?

Why exclude the mini when it's part of the lineup?

It's not that complicated, there's basically 3 iPads. iPad, iPad Air, iPad Pro. Good, Better and Best. The Mini is a niche product that you buy if you need a smaller iPad.

The famous "four quadrant" product matrix expanded to "Good, Better, Best" across most their product line towards the ends of Job's era. Airpods/Pro/Max. Apple Watch SE/10/Ultra. iPhone 16e/16/Pro (with some size variations).

I keep seeing people saying it's complicated but it's really not.

Even during the Jobs era there was a good/better/best inside of there. The first iMac had good/better/best configs. It's just that Apple became so big that the best sometimes became a completely different machine, with its own good/better/best!

if( price sensitive ) return iPad; else if( know what you're doing and you know it needs a Pro ) return iPad Pro; else // I guess I'll be browsing and watching movies?? return iPad Air;

The most annoying thing for me about the iPad lineup is that Apple hasn't released an iPad compatible version of their Journal app. IMHO, it's the perfect device for Journal. I want to write by hand and doodle and do all the other things you do in a paper journal.

There's some reason they haven't done this and I'd love to know what it is. IMHO, it should have been iPad-first and then ported to the phone later.

My guess is that not many people are using it on the iPhone (of which Apple is selling five times as many as iPads, hence they started with that), so they extrapolated that an iPad version isn’t worth it.

Or maybe it’s just general Apple dysfunction. It took them 14 years to port the Calculator app after all.

If Apple did not take over that market, then who is the biggest player of journal apps?

Probably the Notes app.

That’s what I use. Too easy and compatible with phone, tablet, Mac and is shortcut-able. I tried that journaling app but short of the writing suggestions based off calendar or photos, which is kind of clever, it’s the wrong form factor for that kind of app in my opinion.

I’ve been waiting for a Mac version. Why on earth would I type anything of any length on a phone when my favorite docked laptop setup is an option?

It feels funny having to connect a keyboard and mouse to the iPhone or run the iPhone through the Mirroring Tool on a MacBook to properly write in the Journal app.

It’s just that such a small startup don’t have the funds and resources to work on 2 CRUD apps at the same time.

I love my iPad because of the pencil. I got rid of an office overflowing with paper, and I write everything in an app on the iPad. It then gets saved up into the cloud. That alone has made iPad worth it for me. Sometimes I watch movies on it.

iPad is a product I want to love, but still never find a reason to use.

It could be a great do-everything machine if they let you run macOS on it, but of course they don't want to sell one machine that does everything, they want to sell you an iPad and a MacBook even though they are basically the same hardware plus or minus an integrated keyboard.

I want that experience I seen on some other device at some point... Palm? I forget now.

In tablet mode, iPad OS. Touch being the primary operation. Basically just as we see it now.

In a pseudo desktop mode, macOS, where you get the power of a laptop in a smaller form factor. You can optionally try to use this in touch mode in a pinch but it's not necessarily designed for it.

The win would be seamless switching. Including apps... if I have photoshop open on iPad, dock, convert to Photoshop for Mac. I.e. you "dock" your iPad and it converts to a more Mac-like experience. Undock, you get the iPad experience.

To me, this would be ideal. I don't generally _need_ a laptop for personal use, so this would be a serious boon for me as I use my iPad all the time in the evening for simple consumption, but I also have a MacBook over here that gets used a few times a week, which is a costly device for how little it gets used.

ChromeOS tablets behave like this. Connect a keyboard and the UI switches to desktop mode.

There was the Motorola Atrix that had a dual mode system where you could plug the phone into a keyboard, larger battery, and big screen in a mostly laptop form factor. Never used it myself though because the keyboard module was expensive for at the time.

Ohhh that might have been what I was thinking of! Good memory!

I had one and wish I had the spare money at the time for the laptop portion of the unit but that was college years for me and I wasn't working during the school year just the summer and longer breaks.

That phone is still kicking around my drawers somewhere.

You can kind of get that now with the 360-degree rotation laptops, which are available with Windows or Chrome OS. I haven't used a Windows one, but Chrome OS behaves pretty nicely as a tablet.

The trouble though is, once you get an acceptable laptop keyboard and a corresponding screen, the resulting device seems excessively heavy and bulky when flipped over into the tablet form factor. You probably won't want to hold it up for more than 10 minutes.

I like the idea of one all-in-one device, but it's hard to see a way around these things. The cheesy tiny portable "keyboards" they make for tablets are pretty lame for extended typing, but better keyboards are too heavy for tablets. Meanwhile, I expect a desktop device to have the compute horsepower and RAM that are tough to get in a proper tablet form factor.

Watching shows, playing games, occasional drawing.

Yah, got a m4 ipad with a keyboard addon ... it just doesn't work, its not a computer.

I don't use one for work but I use my iPad Pro with keyboard more than I use my personal laptop for personal use. Web browsing, social media, communications, viewing and editing photos, shopping, planning trips, taking notes, and watching videos.

It is a computer, just a little different.

For me the iPad has become one of my favorite ways to use applications like ZBrush, Procreate/Clip Studio, Photoshop/Affinity products.

Now I just need to find good texturing and basic modeling applications I can use on the iPad and I could do a lot more from the comfort of my couch or even outside in the spring.

ZBrush especially on the iPad is an impressive feat and is almost a 1:1 port. I don’t have years and years of ZBrush experience so I actually much prefer the iPad ZBrush GUI to the traditional one.

edit: Shoutout to Paperlike screen covers.

This is a meme comment by now.

I've been using an iPad Air (with Paperlike) for the past 4 years for basically running my life at school, and I can't imagine going back to working with actual paper for daily note-taking and homework assignments. It's great for reading whitepapers and marking them up while laying on the couch.

That functionality by itself justifies its existence in my estimation.

Sounds like you have a great use case. I can see how it would have been useful for me as well back when I was at university. Unfortunately, I rarely do any writing on paper any more, although I probably should.

For the same reason I bought the cheapest 10" Android tablet with external memory slot. I don't know what it's like now, but in the past Apple tried very hard to offer entry level models cheap, but for anything usable in terms of storage you had to pay a big premium.

The base is now 64gb which should be plenty for any student. If not, iCloud is very affordable.

I had the same thought and bought it with the Magic Keyboard. I was surprised to find that the iPad Air with the keyboard weighs about the same as a MacBook Air. Now, I mainly use it as an extra display when traveling and for note-taking. The usage as a separate device is minimal since a lot of uses has intersections with a mobile phone.

The iPad got good for me when I deleted everything but reading and designing/art apps and turned off notifications.

It doesn’t come close to doing all of my computing but it helps me immerse in areas I struggle with on a laptop or desktop.

I realize I’m blessed to be able to split my computing across multiple nice devices.

Notifications show up only on my phone, nothing on the tablet and very few (messaging mostly) on my laptop.

I have an old one that I use daily... to do crossword puzzles.

We also have a newer one, and my kid uses it for much of her free to draw in Procreate. I am not very artistic, but she is, and I am not sure if the difference here is age or artistry.

> I am not sure if the difference here is age or artistry.

It could be the period of life - there are times when we have more space for exploration, and at that time, if we come across art and it "clicks", we might spend hours doing that. At another period, that same activity might seem pointless/not interesting.

My main use is cooking. I keep the recipes in Obsidian, can enable timers hands free, and because it's a big slate of glass its easy to wipe down when it inevitably gets pasta dough on it.

Same. Maybe if I had drawing talent, it would be useful.

I have tried to incorporate it into my daily workflow (maybe use it to help with diagramming), but it ends up collecting dust. Or used to watch films in bed.

Using it as a glorified Kindle also doesn’t work well.

Book recommendation: Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain.

Skip the neuro-"science" chapters and do the drawing exercises only. It really works!

I use mine to browse the web a bit after work and consume RSS feeds using Feedly - always with the type cover. But for productivity, even with the Office apps, the information density on the screen is too low. Instead, I use my iPad as a thin client to RDP to my desktop computer, running Windows 11.

This is with an iPad Pro 2021.

In hindsight I should have purchased a Surface Pro tablet again, but I was so angry on the constant driver issues and similar problems.

I had been hoping that apple would one day produce an M-series chip powered version of the 12 inch retina macbook air. They discontinued those in 2017 and I have one of the last ones that were sold but the battery is very dead and it has stability issues now. I may consider this product if the keyboard is solid and the screen doesn't shake when typing.

I also hope for a new take on an ultraportable Macbook w/ less than 1000g

the 12" Macbook was special

I still think about my friend's netbook he had in secondary school in about 2006

Went down a rabbit hole recently looking at some Chinese ones by Chuwi, nearly pulled the trigger too

I have the Chuwi Minibook X. I bought it because it fits on an airplane tray table and I can do real work on it (since it runs Windows 11). I flew a lot last fall and my iPad simply didn't work with Github and Notion - mobile Safari just didn't cut it (multitasking killed everything due to page reloads on iOS).

Running Firefox on the Minibook X works ... it's not great, but it works.

That said, I would pay top dollar for an 11" MacBook Air for sure.

Thanks for this. I would like to run Linux on it but it seems there are quite a few workarounds needed.

It is frankly disgraceful that Apple have hobbled their beautiful iPad hardware in this way. I have a 13inch 2020 M1 Air but it's just slightly too big for travel.

I bought one of their first portable systems, the Chuwi Lapbopk 12.3.

Amazing system. A really nice IPS 2736 x 1824 display was the star of the show, straight off one of the Microsoft Surface laptops of the day. Pretty whatever CPU, 6gb ram, and tiny 64GB eMMC storage (expandable with m2242 sata), but it ran Debian quite well & had very solid battery life. Very solid robust metal case.

Price felt amazing. $400 in 2017 for a top tier display.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Chuwi-LapBook-12-3-Celeron-2K-...

My team bought one of those for our on-call to carry around. I never wanted to let it go at the end of my on-call shift.

I owned multiple iPads and never found a compelling use case for them. I don't know why I keep buying them but they have been great computers for my parents so it's not like I buy to shelf them.

Are there any use cases (apart from drawing maybe. I can't draw a stick figure if my life depended on it so that's not for me) for developers?

I see my colleagues using iPads at work when on Zoom calls as a whiteboard. It's pretty cool when done effectively. I'd like to practice that skill.

I bring my iPad to the coffee shop and leave my laptop at home when all I want to do is send emails and read. I don't think I could do "heavy" work on it, but it's great for quick stuff. The fact that it has 5g means I don't mess around with finding wifi. I wouldn't pay extra for the 5g (tethering works perfectly), but I got a few free unlimited data lines back when various US cell companies were fighting to churn customers.

iPads are useless for developers. When working I just use mine as a 3rd monitor for Slack, Notion, Linear, Grafana, or whatever I want to keep an eye on.

iPads are amazing for other things though:

- they're the best platform to read comics or mangas

- they're great to learn/play piano with dynamic sheets

- they're great for games (Balatro on iPad is top tier), and basically anything where tactile is good as an input control (GarageBand is nice to use on iPad)

- they're great for travel

You can do many things with an iPad, developing is not one of them.

I use an iPad for all of my personal development work (except futzing with fpga).

Plugged into my keyboard & monitor I can use one of several “codespaces” solutions and if I’m traveling it’s a better screen than a phone.

I can’t use it for work admittedly but that’s mostly about corporate control of my device, not capability.

You can also use it as an extra display for a Mac

I was in the same boat but I've been able to use a friend's ipad with keyboard and have been very impressed. It totally changes the purpose of an ipad to me, especially how good they fit together.

My iPad is almost exclusively for watching movies on planes. And it's very handy for that.

The form factor (in particular the aspect ratio) is unfortunately not ideal for that.

The original Surface RT might have had the best form factor I've used for plane movies - 16:9 screen with built-in kickstand. 16:9 is sub-par for basically everything other than tv/movies though.

My M1 iPad Pro works well for photo editing (using Photomator, now acquired by Apple).

That, and the normal consumption stuff - web, streaming TV/movies, magazines, news, etc.

Never bothered trying to build software with it - that's why I own a MBP.

They are good for music production with a Logic Pro subscription, the touch screen interface is great for virtual instruments, mixing sliders, etc. With powerful chips you can add more tracks and effects.

They're a computer for things that your laptop sucks at. Draw directly on them, use them for reading, carry them to work sites and use them in situations where a laptop would be super-awkward, put them on sheet music stands, prop them up in the kitchen, hold them up and use their tilt sensors in games, all that kind of stuff.

They're basically never better than a laptop at things laptops are good at (though often serviceable enough that folks don't need both) but excel at other use cases where laptops aren't great.

Form factor, amazing. Long ago I had a mini and the new 7th gen is really nice to carry around. However I found the pen functionality to be frustrating. The Pencil Pro, when it works, is great. But I had issues with lagging input on some apps, the well-known screen heating problem (within minutes), lack of a good journaling solution, etc. It's annoying to have to go through 3-4 third party apps to do something that Apple should have released alongside the device, especially when most of them need subscriptions for nebulous benefits like cloud sync (I already pay for iCloud backup, so why?). FreeForm is OK, but isn't great for structured note-taking. There are enough of these niggling problems that I returned mine within the 14-day cool off period to do some more research.

I'd consider getting a used model when the prices have dropped a bit, but full-price for something that feels a little half-baked is tough. Especially because the hardware otherwise feels exceptional.

I'm looking at the Surface Pro, which does basically the same thing and also has conveniences like USB ports for peripherals. Or try out the iPad Pro, but that's getting into "BIG" territory.

> They're basically never better than a laptop at things laptops are good at (though often serviceable enough that folks don't need both)

I'm experimenting with replacing my personal laptop with an iPad Pro this year. I'm not a professional content creator, photo or video editor, etc. So far it's been great. I write a lot, creative writing, journaling, and lots of note taking. It's been wonderful for all of these tasks and it basically goes with me everywhere.

My iPad Mini is my primary travel computer. Fits (barely) in most of my front pockets. But the screen is big enough that I feel comfortable. Keep a bluetooth keyboard with an attachment slot in my bag. The slot holds the tablet firmly enough that I can use it as a laptop when wanted.

For my needs it's mostly perfect. Can have it with me at all times without requiring a bag. Much more portable than an actual laptop while the screen is more comfortable in size/ratio than the usual 6.8 inch phones.

iPadOS isn't my favorite but the form factor makes up for it.

I really started to enjoy my iPad Pro M1 messing around making music.

There are hundreds of fantastic apps out there from mixers, sequencers to excellent synthesizers, effects and samplers. For an idea of what this can look like, here's a video: https://youtu.be/ft8erjlzg4A?si=lCg77DZAUYNa1SEf

Add a midi controller and you can make pretty much any kind of music you want.

A great benefit over mac / pc computer based music making is that the apps are very affordable.

My biggest use case was as a recipe manager: I used the app Mela and placed the iPad in the kitchen, giving me a touchscreen with water resistance that would give me step-by-step instructions on cooking the family meal.

Mine is basically an HN reader for the couch

I do the exact same thing. I buy an iPad because it seems cool, use it for a bit, forget about it, sell it/give it away, repeat two years later.

I love the idea of an iPad, but they just don't really fit into my life I guess.

I’ll know Apple is really in trouble when people stop complaining about each new product announcement

Are you new to this space? Complaining about product announcements, especially Apple's, is a game with many players and has been for decades.

Perhaps OP is referring to the idea that products are killed by apathy, not by hate. People who take the time to complain about something still want the thing, they just want it to be better. People who have stopped caring are lost.

People complain because they care...

You're absolutely right, when people stop caring -- that's when Apple should be concerned.

Is it still a 60hz screen? If so, pass. I’ve got an old gen 1 pro, which has 120hz and can’t go back to 60hz - it’s even more needed in an iPad than a phone. All the other Pro features are not worth it for me, and really this mid tier should have 120hz. I’ll hold on to my current iPad until that’s that case (I can’t justify paying the high price for a new pro)

IKR

I must be very lucky - I have 60hz monitors on my desk, and a 120hz iPad Pro, and I don't really notice a difference!

Agreed. This was also the first thing I searched for when clicking on the article. 60Hz screens should not be a thing in 2025.

> iPad Air is built for Apple Intelligence, the personal intelligence system that delivers helpful and relevant intelligence

OK, so the predominant opinion of HN seems to be that Apple is really good at marketing. So, which target group are they, brilliantly of course, addressing with this repetitive word salad?

People who need intelligence, obviously.

Wow they really reused that word three times in once sentence. Ouch.

It is ironic that the M3 Air is heavier than the M4 Pro even though they are essentially identical in size.

And thicker

How often do people upgrade airpads? I am not even sure who the target audience for them is anymore. Most people are comfortable with their phones and if it cannot be done on a phone, most people go to a desktop/laptop.

They still age out, my mum has had excellent success with iPads, after somehow killing a litany of laptops.

Shes a consumer through-and-through, and an iPad is great for that- and occasionally calling people.

Unfortunately she’s had her current iPad for about 8 years, so it has aged out of security updates- so I am looking to upgrade her. Battery still holds charge though, at least enough that she doesn't complain.

Apple sells roughly double the number of iPads vs. MacBooks, so there’s that.

iPads are great for my son (8yo) and my parents (80s).

I find the phone to be too cramped and when I'm at home, I do most of my computing on an iPad.

Apple pricing strategy is a masterclass lesson.

For the iPhone, there once was a time that $600 was the cost of the highest end phone. Now Apple has created a pricing architecture (and laddering) where $600 today only gets you the entry level iPhone.

Similarly with iPad. They have been able to get consumers now to buy effectively a 2-year old components inside an iPad Air and still command a premium price ... and making it feel "new".

I'm not knocking Apple.

I'm genuinely impressed with their pricing architecture and strategy they have been able to execute on over the years.

There's been a ton of inflation. Apple makes an OK but not spectacular margin on hardware.

These are for Q4 2024:

Hardware: 98B revenue, 59.5B cost of sales, 38.5B gross profit, 40% gross margin

Services: 26B revenue, 6.5B cost of sales, 19.5B gross profit, 75% gross margin

Look on page three of this: https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/320193/00003...

None of those services would exist without Apples hardware business though.

So you can't exactly look at the margins in insolation.

As an investor, I don't. But your point was about rising hardware prices, and services subsidize the hardware if anything by the mechanism you mention.

Ok so if I just want to watch movies and do a bunch of Procreate sketches with the pencil, is the new 13" Air sufficient, or will i regret not spending the extra $ for the pro?

The base model is $599 in the US, or $799 in Canada. Which is odd as Apple usually screws Canada and has worse-than-exchange prices in Canada, and in this case it's actually better than exchange prices. In contrast is the release of the 16e just two weeks ago, where the pricing is $599 in the US, $899 in Canada. Weird.

I wonder if US tariffs on China have something to do with this, and the US price is more than it would have been.

I still don't understand the iPad lineup.

What is the point of iPad Air? It's compatible with the latest Apple Pencil, but iPad isn't, but iPad Pro is, and the Pencil Pro is only compatible with iPad Pro, iPad Air (not M1), and iPad ... MINI (not iPad). (Edit: Actually the Apple Pencil for our iPad Air M1 isn't even sold anymore, I guess?)

The Apple Pencil USB-C compatibility matrix is even more confusing.

Why is this division of Apple run like Google's messaging apps?

I would definitely buy an iPad Pro that had regular MacOS on it like a MacBook. Otherwise I have had an iPad for about ten years and it’s been collecting dust for about 9.5 (will sell a cheap iPad 1, DM me!).

My mom's iPad's screen has failed so she asked me to look into a new iPad for her. I'm not generally interested in Apple products personally; in just five minutes of research, I ran into the same confusion you have. iPads used to be simple: there was iPad and iPad Air. One would only buy an Air if one's use case was basic apps without a lot of hardware requirements (e.g., for children).

My mom also uses one of those magnetic keyboard attachments; she needs a new one because it's in rough shape. Come to find out some of them are over $300.

I get that it's unclear. But in practice, this only matters upon purchase, and then it's simply an option whether you want one, or not.

Price ladder strategy. Need to keep enticing people to upgrade to the fairly closely priced higher end product until they end up at the Pro.

It does seem like a confusing lineup, in terms of current gen models you've got, in ascending order of price

iPad ($349) iPad Mini ($499) iPad Air 11" ($599) iPad Air 13" ($799) iPad Pro 11" ($999) iPad Pro 13" ($1299)

So from a pricing perspective, it does kind of make sense. The naming is all over the place though.

The iPad Mini is more expensive and better specced than the iPad. And then the Air sounds like it should be a light version of the iPad, but is actually better specced than the iPad.

My guess is that non technical people don't care about things like names and spec, but buy iPads based on pricing. And if people are buying the entry level iPad, why drop it?

Different product launches have different people running them that want to do things their way, and not enough leadership to keep the overarching vision consistent.

Yes, this also gets me mad, but the strategy works I guess? I recently bought an iPad for my wife and I ended up getting an Air (M2) instead of the basic one just because she wanted to draw and sadly the iPad doesn't support a Apple Pencil with pressure sensitivity. But also the Air doesn't have the features that I wanted (120Hz display), but the Pro is too expensive, so I ended up compromising.

basic iPad = iPhone SE/e

iPad Air = regular iPhone

iPad Pro = iPhone Pro (Max)

iPad mini = iPhone mini (if it still existed)

> M3 brings Apple’s advanced graphics architecture to iPad Air for the first time, so users can enjoy graphics-intensive games like Where Winds Meet, coming later this year.

Look at the demo video that goes with this blurb. Graphical artifacts and pop-in everywhere.

What really surprises me is that they introduced any new M3 based devices.

Common knowledge was they wanted to move away from the M3 quickly because it was on TSMCs first gen 3nm processing technology that had lower yields

Well, “common knowledge” around here tends to be wrong, constantly.

https://www.jonpeddie.com/news/apples-second-gen-3nm-soc-for...

Chip yields improve over time, as any manufacturing process. That “logic” isn’t based on reality.

Very simple, M2 components are running out, makes no sense to keep producing them, so upgrade to the next one.

They might have lost the reserved spot at TSMC as well

Kind of a yawner without faceid.

My 13” M4 iPad Pro Cellular is like a Mercedes. I could have bought a nice laptop instead. No financial analysis can justify it, but it’s luxurious and totally worth every penny.

I bought an iPad in 2020, its very practical the 5 times a year I use it.

I bought an iPad pro, I have done some architectural stuff on it for rennovations, which was handy using the pen (could've just used my computer) other than that, it's a good paper weight and handy when i take a flight so I can watch a movie :)

I bought ab 11" ipad air and keyboard... it's kinda fun but struggling to see where it fits between my phone for portable/casual and my mbp for getting stuff done.

I have the starlite tablet with phosh and while not perfect it is already great and improving monthly. Don’t think I’ll go back to Apple’s golden straitjacket.

Will an older Magic keyboard, that went with an iPad Air of a previous generation, work with these new iPad Airs?

Since the new keyboard is still compatible with the older iPad Airs, I’d assume the reverse is true as well. The (last year) Pro keyboards aren’t compatible because the magnets layout on the M4 iPad Pro is different.

The story with these keyboards, especially iPad Pro keyboards, is the ugly part of the whole iPad experience. “Fuck you, give us money” more or less.

But wait, given how iPad Pros now have the same SoC as MacBook Airs, but are crippled (or should I say, “computationally challenged”?), it wouldn’t surprise me if a MacBook Air with built-in cellular connectivity would just make iPad Pro dead in the water.

re iPad lineup afaiu

Pro has the strongest differentiation:

  120hz ProMotion, LiDAR, Thunderbolt, least weight, Face ID, studio microphones, wide lens camera, …

unique to Air compared to "iPad":

  M-series chip (Stage Manager) and Apple Intelligence, Pencil Pro support

Mini:

  smaller

?

Gonna be annoying when the newest iPad is more powerful than my mac studio :)

Too bad you can't run OS X on it...

$600 M4 Mac Mini has been described as "iPad without a screen" with macOS.

That feature is set to debut the moment Apple figures out how to make it a subscription service.

maybe iPads are for creatives. but for regular office-work they're not good at all. bad UX throughout. My mum tends to use for her regular work tasks e.g writing, spreadsheets etc everything is just bad - things that could be easily done on a macbook - take ages on an ipad. the file system is bad. the reason she doesn't like using the macbook is due to lack of touch. so either apple needs to make an iPad with full macOS but which supports touch. Not the half-assed product that's currently available now.

They are mostly for media consumption, reading/reviewing, note-taking and casual browsing.

Why can't Apple just sell native macOS support for iPad at a rate where they wouldn't cannibalize their other offerings? I'd pay around $300-$400 for it without hesitation.

It's not about the money, it's about the principle. The entire reason why the iPad exists[0] is because they think fingers touching mouse software is a bad idea. Some people couch this request in terms like "well what if they made macOS touch friendly", but the answer to that is "that already exists, it's called iPadOS."

What you actually want is for iPadOS to shed the limitations of the mobile OS it evolved from. That's a whole different set of asks; many of which cross different but equally strongly-held red lines. A lot of the features of macOS that make it useful for developers - the native UNIX shell, Virtualization.framework, third-party distribution, the ability to relax signature verification on software[1], files that live outside of app containers[2], and most importantly, root access - are all things that Apple considers outmoded and insecure. Insamuch as macOS still supports them, it's because software developers require them to work, so Apple has a policy of keeping software development corralled to macOS instead of letting developers and their attendant security issues spill over into their "device platforms".

[0] Going all the way back to Steve Jobs having his engineers make a tablet computer demo out of sheer spite for Windows XP tablet edition

[1] Or, on Apple Silicon, outright just sign your own OS kernel

[2] On other Apple platforms, your "On My iPad/iPhone" files live inside of a special container for the Files app; and there's another container for iCloud files. There is technically still a home directory, where all your app containers live, but you can't see or interact with it unless you jailbreak.

I want Xcode on my iPad. Principles be damned.

I'm not sure if they would canibalise anything much. The sell each year around:

1) 230m iPhones

2) 50m iPads

3) 25m Macbooks

Macbook is pretty much niche product to them comparing to Windows market share. Many would still wanna own Macbook even if iPad would support MacOS. They would sell much more iPads and bring bring more users to their ecosystem, familiarise those that used Windows before and maybe they would buy Macbook later on.

No MacOS no fun

More importantly: no Apple Intelligence, which makes this an actual upgrade.

> With iPadOS 18, support for Apple Intelligence, advanced cameras, fast wireless 5G connectivity, and compatibility with Apple Pencil Pro and Apple Pencil (USB-C), the new iPad Air offers an unrivaled experience.

Why would you assume no Apple Intelligence. A.I. has been enabled for any device with an M-series chip. It is already on the M1 MacBook Air and the M4 iPad Pro, so why not this M3 iPad Air?

A.I. is in its infancy now, but I expect significant improvements over the next year or two.

booo fix airdrop from mac to ipjone

I use airdrop from Mac to iPhone pretty regularly without problems. What probably are you having with your ipjone?

they cant find eachother

I'm so confused by their lineup. I'm in the market for a new iPad, but I can never remember the difference between an iPad, iPad Pro, and Air. What's the difference between this an a 13" Pro or Non-Air? I wish they'd just have a single line of iPads with different screen sizes but the same CPU and stylus support in every generation. I'm so tired of having to play the "compare every permutation" game when shopping.

Edit: I just want a big screen for drawing and watching movies on the plane with.

It's a Good, Better, Best strategy. iPad is good, iPad Air is better, iPad Pro is best.

iPad (cheap ol reliable)

iPad AIR (pro lite)

iPad mini (mini with iPad tech)

iPad Pro (for artists or people who think they can replace their MacBooks with it but in the end they can’t)

I don't need to replace my laptop, but I would like to learn digital drawing on it. Is there a cheaper non pro version with a big screen and stylus support? Is the Apple Pen (or Pencil?) different between models?

You can check out the range at https://www.apple.com/ipad/

The new iPad Air has a 13" model and Pencil Pro support. Starts at $799. The main difference between it and the iPad Pro is LCD screen vs OLED screen.

The iPad mini is really an Air mini (better screen than the basic iPad, etc.), except for the SoC (A17 Pro currently), which may be for size (heat dissipation) reasons.

Yeah, it's a bit different with the mini and it's longer product cycle the first half it usually goes toe to toe with the air and in the second part of the cycle with the then newly released normal iPad.

It's pretty simple. Get the Air if for yourself. Get the Pro if for work or if you want a better screen. Get the iPad for kids.

There are a few big caveats that I looked at when I recently upgraded my iPad.

Screen. The Pro screens are better. How much that matters is up to you. Given I am into photography and wanted to have the nicer screen this mattered to me. You can also get the nano-textured glass on the Pro but I don't believe you can on the others. This is a super pricey option though.

Processor. The Pro has M4, Air has M3.

USB-C port differences. I believe the Pro line have faster USB-C transfer speeds. Not sure if this has changed but it used to be a thing.

I skipped the Apple Pencil this time around, I just didn't use it enough with my previous iPad Pro to justify getting it again. I've had it for two months, so far I am happy with the decision.

There are probably others, so your point is certainly valid, that it is a pain to find the legitimate differences that might matter without digging into the specs.

I think just think about the categories cheap, light, and feature packed. I'm sure these categories are studied for price, weight, technically possible. I believe Apple creates the iPad lineup based on usage demographics and designs to those specifications. Choose which of those categories is the most important and shop that line. If a feature in that model lineup is no good wait a year or prioritize that particular feature for shopping.

Weight is now very close to each other:

  iPad 477 g
  Air  460 g
  Pro  444 g

(11” non-cellular)

You are correct. Maybe the names will make sense when the next generation iPad Pro line is released.

Remember when Steve Jobs returned to Apple and simplified the product line? I feel like Apple needs that again.

That was for a company that was struggling and had a much smaller customer base. As your market grows you can afford to tailor your offerings to better match different customers needs.

For the iPad, they basically have the good, better, best product line with the addition of the Mini for special cases. It's not really that complicated.

I'd say that the main complications are that the Pencil Pro only works on the Air and Pro and the keyboards have to fit the exact case size so they are not as universal as ideal. Most people don't need the pencil and not everyone needs the keyboards.

People keep bringing up this tired trope without realizing even in 2010 when Jobs was still around, you had three segments of all of their products.

Desktops - Mac Mini, iMac, Mac Pro.

Laptops - Air, MacBook, MacBook Pro

iPods - Shuffle, Nano and regular iPod

Phones - 3G, 3GS, and iPhone 4

Apple has a handy spec comparison page: https://www.apple.com/ipad/compare/

I agree that the lineup is a bit muddled, but going down the specs list you can check which differences are important to you.

Wake me up when I can install Linux on it.

Here’s a guide for quick decision making re: iPad purchase:

* iPad is for kids/edu

* iPad Air is for adults (most people)

* iPad Pro is for adults who want to flex or who have a company credit card.

Do they all support the Apple Pencil? Or only certain versions? Thank you for this.

All support Apple Pencil. Just get the one that the check out flow says goes with the one you picked and be done with it.

But Photoshop doesn't support the Pencil in all iPads... I had to return 2 pencils and 1 iPad.

No, there are 4 different Apple Pencil versions and each has a list of compatible iPads. Here is the full list. https://support.apple.com/en-us/108937

I thought you were joking about this but they are still selling 3 different pencils. At least one has been retired. But Jesus what a mess of a lineup.

I'm assuming/wishing/hoping they are going to get to Good Pencil and Great Pencil and Good Pencil works on everything and Great Pencil works on a limited set of products.

That's an interesting take that I've never heard before. Why do you feel this is the case?

This person is almost certainly firmly and vocally in the camp of “The iPad hardware is wasted because of the software.”

Then they extrapolate from this, “If you buy an iPad Pro you are just doing it to flex.”

I was trying to think of a reason you'd need the full power of an M3 chip in an iPad...any ideas?

Nobody on earth needs an M3 in an iPad.

Why not? Honest question.

Because there’s nothing you can do on an M3 that you can’t do on an M2. Or M1.

But can't you do it faster on a faster processor?

If shaving milliseconds off of your workflow is so mission critical that spending an additional few hundred to few thousand dollars is worth it, you don’t need a snarky HN post to tell you which iPad to buy.

And I’m not convinced that person even exists except in their own minds.

I read M4 is about 20% than M3 in editing photos from Lightroom. That's seems significant.

I don't have skin in the game here, as I don't own anything from Apple. I was just curious.

640K of RAM should be enough for anyone.

As someone struggling to find the limits of his M2 iPad air, you don't.

Hopefully 7 years from now you'll still be able to use it with modern apps, websites, and video content. IMO, The benefits of these chips are in longevity rather than pushing them to the limit today.

I don't think there's any amount of processing power that can keep up with website bloat long term, but you out to get an extra year or two from the M3

This is the pretty obvious answer. I'm looking at replacing my gen-3 iPad Air from 2019 because it's feeling pretty pokey now. (And my wife's gen-1 iPad Air from 2013 is entirely unusable.)

Gaming and local LLM to name two specific things I use my m4 iPad Pro for. I have no idea if an M1 or whatever would have the same performance. I think it's really cool that I can have the same processor-ish in my laptop and my tablet, but that's not a reason to spend $2k.

To sell more ipads.

Supply chain consolidation. Supplying newly manufactured iPads with chips no longer in production isn’t really a winning strategy. Honestly it’s a bit surprising they didn’t just jump to M4s since the iPad Pros debuted with that about a year ago.

I believe the “you” in the “you’d” that the comment refers to is the customer, and the customer certainly doesn’t “need” supply chain consolidation.

I mean, as a potential customer “you’d” probably like to be able to buy the product announced. Fitting new products with A15 or M1 chips that aren’t in production anymore will impact the ability to buy one unless Apple is sitting on a big stockpile of unused chips.

Probably those who do 3D modeling, sculpting, illustration video editing, photography etc.

Beats me, but in prior iPad release posts on HN, people would swear up and down that AR work would be a key use case, because Apple had put in an AR-capable camera in the Pro. These people have since moved on to posting fantastical visions of what the Apple Vision Pro will be capable of.

That’s because if you’re on the forefront of AR you’re probably targeting Vision 2. The people doing AR work have moved on to different hardware.

Meta smart glasses are selling well. Apple smart glasses will arrive eventually, based on VisionOS.

3D design/sculpting, Procreate with many layers, intensive gaming, video editing.

Though I agree most workflows aren't remotely capable software-wise compared to Mac counterparts.

Because you plan on keeping it for as long as possible. I'm still using my 2018 iPad Pro (it's my favorite computer to use).

Video editing apps like DaVinci Resolve will take advantage of this nicely, as will similar multimedia apps.

Local AI models and gaming also come to mind.

I wanted to say x86 (and PPC) emulation for gaming, but Apple doesn't allow JITing unfortunately.

I bought the iPad Pro in 2020 (13”, last on the A series of chips) and the screen is so much nicer than on any iPad I’ve ever used before. I was planning to buy a new one this year if there’s a notable release but OK with waiting another year.

That said, with the Air having M3 and being available in 13”, I’ll have to take a long hard look at whether that screen is worth the extra money to me. I’d imagine that’ll remain one of the differentiators between the Pro and Air.

I do get an iPad about every 5 years and I don’t use a computer at home so splurging on the high end isn’t a huge concern for me. So not sure if I’ll be willing to give up the really nice screen.

I bought an 13" M4 iPad Pro when it was released and returned it a week later because I didn't like the magic keyboard. I went back to my 2018 iPad Pro with the Smart Keyboard Folio.

I've been waiting and hoping for some third party to come along and clone the Smart Keyboard Folio. If they did, I'd repurchase an M4 iPad because other than the keyboard it was great.

I was just looking at the apple website to see if the Smart Keyboard Folio is available for the new iPads and it looks like that product line is gone for all iPads. Such a shame because it was a great product. I suspect it didn’t feel premium-enough for Apple management.

I was also hoping they'd bring the Folio back. I've got an old Air that does need replacing and have thought about buying an M2 Pro just to find a used Folio with.

I love the Magic Keyboard's usefulness despite how crappy the durability is for such a high-priced accessory.

I also have the Smart Keyboard Folio and like it will enough but the angles it sits at aren't what I prefer and I really got used to the trackpad on it. The fabric-y feel of the keys is very nice and durability wise it seems to be holding up better than the Magic Keyboard (but to be fair, I probably use the Magic Keyboard 75% of the time).

IPad Pro is if you prefer an OLED/120 Hz/optional matte screen and Face ID. There are many more differences, but these are the major ones.

* iPad Mini is for neighbor Nursultan Tulyakbay

Then get stuck using iOS so your device is basically useless.

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