Hacker News Reader

Comment by josephwegner | Hacker News Reader

But I am actually interested in the economics! The author mentions sending her designs out to a factory - I would expect this is astonishingly expensive for a single prototype! Wouldn’t that be thousands of dollars? Is anyone familiar how to get good factory-made parts like this at DIY budgets?

Not that that takes away from the article at all. This project has many merits, and although cost may not be one of them, it’s still interesting!

View on HN

It all depends on what you ask the factory to do.

This project seems to take its heating elements, clockwork timer and knob from a classic Dualit 2 Slice toaster - so those parts are all available off-the-shelf.

Other than that, this design needs some laser cut and bent metal, and some wooden feet. If you're able to bend the metal yourself and find some off-the-shelf feet, you could probably get the flat sheets of stainless steel laser cut and shipped for less than $100.

On the other hand, if one wanted a factory to do more demanding production processes, with more worker time or more machine setup - you're right that it would cost a good deal more.

There are also services that can do the sheet metal bending for you if you have the cad designed. Of course shipping can get pricey, but I think it’s not prohibitively expensive.

On the subject of Dualit toasters: I've picked several up on the street over the years, cleaned them up and replaced a few parts (heating elements and/ or timers) and for about £10 effectively had a new toaster to give away/ sell. Dualit toasters aren't the best but I wholeheartedly recomend them from the point of view of DIY repair and maintainence. Our current model is 20 years old this year.

Yeah, the knob and the lack of automated pop-out made me think that they at least deeply evaluated dualit models. I have 2 dualits. Both inherited, both well over 20 years old. There really is not much to repair with these things.

I will say the OP’s design looks cool, it’s certainly an interesting exercise and portfolio item.

The last one I picked up off the street had no problems whatsoever, except for the fact that the power cord had been cut off. Presumably someone had cut it off deliberately, which is infuriating - but hey, free toaster.

>Presumably someone had cut it off deliberately

People usually do that to specifically indicate that it has a problem of some sort, so someone else doesn't assume it's working. Although with a toaster, just the act of flipping it around to cut the cord might dislodge whatever toast bits were causing it to smoke and such in the first place.

In my experience, desperate people cut the cords off of perfectly good appliances to sell the copper as scrap. Copper wire fetches something like ~$1/lb as scrap. It's infuriating when they cut it right at the connection to the appliance, making it too time consuming to test.

A label of "Broken" or "Works" or "Missing X" is so much more helpful for appliances left out.

Good point, if it was just sitting by the curb, a metal scraper might have just cut the cord instead of taking the whole thing. I've noticed that different scrapers have different criteria for what they'll take. Some will take the whole thing and break it down or just sell it as unsorted metal and others are more particular and will pick through and just take what they know they can get the most/easiest money for.

I once had to cut the power cord off of an appliance (a dehumidifier, in this case) as part of the process to claim a recall. They company didn't want me to ship back the entire unit (annoying, but understandable given the weight of it), but they wanted to ensure that it wouldn't still be used, since it was recalled for being a fire risk.

I’m like this with Mazzer grinders. It’s a niche kink, but I’m addicted to them.

People claim they break, but I’m yet to find one that wasn’t fixed fairly easily. With the intention of selling, I sand and paint them. But then they are so beautiful I can’t.

Best are the models ‘Major’ and above. The air vents look so good. Who needs to grind 20kgs of beans per day? Not me, but I can do this 5 or 6 times over.

I build things like this in similarly low quantity - you are probably looking at a grand or two toaster kit there, 95% of which is the custom parts - if it was done locally. The time for someone else to do it is what your paying for. It can be done exceptionally cheap in dollars if YOU do it, but you'll still pay with your time, and you'll still need machine access.

Cheap and easy "factory" quality is probably PCBWAY or similar in China - they do more than PCBs these days. Call it "prototype" budget - several hundred dollars of parts instead of thousands.

My experience is that PCBWay and similar usually offer better quality than doing it yourself. They get their costs down by automating everything they can. They're usually competitive at initial samples than many of the big houses too for essentially the same reason.

The other big insight here is that often making 50 doesn't cost much more than making 1, as much of the cost will be in programming and setup charges, not actually running the part. Sheet steel is pretty cheap, too.

SendCutSend offer surprisingly inexpensive sheet metal parts in single quantities.

https://sendcutsend.com/

I have ordered stuff here: https://www.schaeffer-ag.de/en/

Whoa that looks really fun.

Great website, love the video demo of using the siet.

They're a great service. I've done some laser cut aluminum bits for projects, and the quality is fantastic.

OSH Cut (https://oshcut.com/) provides similar services. Their automated DFM analysis software is pretty impressive.

Perhaps more interesting to the audience here is that Caleb Chamberlain, the CEO (and a college acquaintance of mine), writes a series of articles about running the business for the trade publication The Fabricator. You can find them here: https://www.thefabricator.com/author/caleb-chamberlain. He covers both business (operations, strategy) and technical aspects of running a highly automated small job metal fabrication shop.

I am super late to mention this, but we use sendcutsend also, great results. For 3D work, was surprised not to see https://www.hubs.com/ mentioned - used to be 3DHubs. US and international multi-axis machining, 3d printing, etc. Quite helpful.

No, it wouldn't cost thousands. There are plenty of shops that specialize in prototypes and small pilot runs and there's nothing complicated about the design or material of this product.

It looks like off the shelf electronics with custom sheet metal parts.

Are far as low volume prototyping goes, sheet metal is as cost efficient as it gets for large metal parts. If you're sourcing from China, I'd estimate 500 bucks per prototype (with two sets in case one breaks).

Isn’t this the perfect type of project/product for Kickstarter?

Perfect in what sense? Kickstarter is useful if you're thinking of doing something capital-intensive and need money and customers beforehand. This comes with downsides: deadlines, shipping, cranky customers, etc.

This is a hobby project and there's nothing to suggest that the author wants to get in the business of selling toasters for a living... or that it would be wise for them to do so.

> sending his designs out

sending her designs out

Thank you. It's too late to edit, but goodness am I embarrassed now. Very sorry, Kasey!

I've taken the liberty of doing a s/his/her/ in your comment above; I hope that's ok.

(Edit: er, I mean s/ his/ her/. The thises are all intact.)

Reply on news.ycombinator.com