It has been posted here many times that the US started the EUV LLC to research EUV and allowed ASML to join. ASML doesn't hold all the cards. I doubt Americans are stupid enough to let ASML walk away with all the EUV IPs.
In this unrealistic worst case, shut down the ability for ASML to raise any sort of capital by litigating in just about every market, threaten $60B in Dutch exports to the US, and threaten felony status for much of ASML, Philips, and NXP's leadership. Oh and nationalize Cymer LLC, as the manufacturing and IP for ASML's EUV work is in ASML's US Subsidary (Cymer llc [0]), not the Dutch parent that's a spinoff of NXP and Philips
[0] - https://www.cymer.com/
It's all part of the US holding in San Diego (Cymer LLC).
National Labs are part of the US Defense apparatus and have massive compliance and firewalling requirements, and constant audits.
Any attempt by ASML Holdings to exfiltrate data and IP from Cymer LLC (a DoE contractor) opens ASML leadership to criminal charges, and makes them toxic in any deal.
It might not matter to you, but it absolutely puts the Dutch economy at risk.
And anyhow, all the manufacturing is done in San Diego and Livermore anyhow.
USA is an important partner but nothing is more important than the wellbeing of the immediate neighboring countries because USA is actually a distant 5th trading partner for the Dutch with less than %5 of the trade, it is as about as important as Italy. You can't have prosperous Netherlands with struggling Europe.
I don't know why this isn't getting into your head.
Could you define "all"?
From your comment it seems all stories about ASML having a quasi-monopoly in lithography machines are nonsense. So it's the US holding the chip cards? That makes the China vs Taiwan debacle even less important to the US, since there's nothing to worry about.
They absolutely do, and it's becuase the US chose to give it to ASML Holdings instead of Nikon due to antitrust concerns in the 2000s-early 2010s.
> Could you define "all"?
Lithography machines are complex and filled with several parts. The primary part that allows you to do light based lithography is the Light Source - a very advanced form of Laser. This is what Cymer manufactures and developed in conjunction with Lawrence Livermore National Labs. But technology in isolation is useless - it needs to be capitalized in order to be built and utilized. This is why LLNL brought ASML in as a private sector partner for Cymer.
> That makes the China vs Taiwan debacle even less important to the US
The "Taiwan Chips" aspect was always nonsense that was literally lobbied by Intel in 2019 to force TSMC to burn $20B building a factory in Arizona while giving Intel some breathing room to build a Foundary IDM.
Also, the intermediate parts for fabrication are largely manufactured in Japan and South Korea. There are a number of vendors in Taiwan now, but there is an ecosystem in the other two as well.
> less important to the US, since there's nothing to worry about.
Wrong. Taiwan is part of the first island chain. Without Taiwan, much of the US's Pacific seaboard becomes very difficult to defend, and leaves us open to a Pearl Harbor 2.0.
Even in 20th century, the only time the US ever lost land was to the Japanese when they invaded American Phillipines, portions of Alaska, and planned to invade Hawaii.
This is why you see horrible unseriousness about Ukraine by US admins. Ukraine is bad, but Taiwan is existential for the US, and why just about every US admin is much more worried about China compared to Russia.
No European nation other than France has the capacity to help us in the Pacific, so they may as well help load balance/burden share in Europe and MENA. It will make both North America and our European allies stronger.
In the eventuality that the US is seen as a foreign hostile country by EU members, which seems increasingly likely, those IPs do not need to be respected anymore.
Unless your argument is that "EU chimps cannot figure out how to do lithography thenselves". Then I'll have a very hard time to take your argument seriously.
First, I absolutely think Trump and Vance's conduct was horrid.
That said, even after the past 2 weeks, European states are hesitant to provide boots on the ground to Ukraine [0][1].
Online (especially on English speaking Reddit and HN) there is strong support to help Ukraine, yet it seems individual members of European states do not wish to truly commit to Ukraine, due to political implications. If even Poland [1] does not want to provide boots on the ground, and Germany and France still want US boots on the ground in order for them to commit to Ukraine [1], then there is a fundamental problem with Ukraine's current posture.
Even if Harris was president today, a similar outcome would have happened.
As I have stated multiple times before, I don't think Europeans on Reddit/HN realize that China is the bigger issue for the US, not Russia (European leadership does recognize this and is trying to accommodate the US as such - look at the UK and Türkiye's commitment to Ukraine over the past decade).
We have no actual defense in depth in the Pacific and have seen this first hand in WW2 with the Japanese invasion of American Philippines and Alaska and much more recently during both the SCS Standoff and Senkaku Diaoyu, but our allies in Europe can provide that for us in Russia. Nor do we expect our European allies except France (because of French Polynesia and Mayotte) to help us in a Indo-Pacific War
If WW3 does happen, there will be no American soldiers in Kirkenes, we will be in the Kinmen Islands
> Unless your argument is that "EU chimps cannot figure out how to do lithography thenselves". Then I'll have a very hard time to take your argument seriously.
Europe (and China, South Korea, Japan, India, etc) absolutely can. Question is over what time period (2 years, 5 years, 10 years?).
There needs to be a united "Europe" but there really isn't. When push comes to shove, European states devolve into bickering with each other because diametrically opposed interests.
If an Obama 2 era Dem staffer like me is ticked off, then you should realize your leadership has burned any goodwill that remains in the American NatSec space. The Koreans and Taiwanese tick us off, but at least we know they will fight if push comes to shove. The only European states with a similar resolve are France, UK, Turkiye, Poland, Netherlands, and maybe Romania. We warned your leadership that an American president like Trump would eventually come, yet your leaders did not listen.
At least your leadership recognizes this now, but has to work overtime because the Trump admin are incompetent at messaging.
It will be better for both the US and our European allies if Germany, Netherlands, etc adopt a France+UK style policy of strategic autonomy. Maybe include Turkiye while you're at it otherwise they will make Balkan and Caucasus Integration impossible
----------
Also, none of the above sidesteps the fact that 20% of ASML's personnel is in the US, and ASML's light source technology (the primary part used for EUV and DUV) is manufactured and innovated by an JV in San Diego between ASML and Livermore Labs.
[0] - https://www.thetimes.com/world/russia-ukraine-war/article/ai...
[1] - https://www.politico.eu/article/europes-leader-donald-trump-...
I don't understand why Trump is so anxious to be buddies with Putin when Russia is aligned with China. It's feeling like an oligarch's world where under the table deals are what matters and the nationalist rhetoric is just a smoke screen.
The EUV portion of the machines are made in the US - it's manufactured by ASML's subsidiary Cymer, down in SoCal.
It's not clear where the current US government will draw the line, and they would be crazy to draw the line at IP licensing... but well, I have some bad news.
I have absolutely no idea what is the Trump's (or Musk's, or whoever is calling the shots) endgame is. There is the chance that military action is inevitable. It's really bad either way.
They are part of ASML, but firewalled from the rest due to DoE and Federal Contractor requirements.
Query: who are ASML's subsidiaries?
//
1. Cymer (Acquired in 2013)
A U.S.-based company specializing in EUV and DUV light sources. Cymer provides the laser-produced plasma (LPP) EUV sources used in ASML's EUV scanners.
A German company specializing in high-precision optical components. Helps ASML develop optical lenses and mirrors for lithography machines.
A Taiwanese company focusing on e-beam inspection and metrology. Enables ASML to enhance defect detection in semiconductor manufacturing.
ASML has a strategic partnership with Carl Zeiss SMT, which supplies high-precision optics and mirrors used in EUV systems. While ASML doesn’t own Carl Zeiss, it invested heavily in their R&D for EUV optics.
FAFO.