All the while "3,200% CPU Utilization" with 100 comments is #1. Which is niche at best.
All the while "3,200% CPU Utilization" with 100 comments is #1. Which is niche at best.
Let me answer that bit first. Most good HN threads are "niche", meaning they are about things far less important than major events. This is on purpose, because if a story's importance were the criterion for HN's front page, then HN would be a current affairs site, and that is definitely not its mandate (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). One could even say that HN is more for unimportant things, as long as they gratify intellectual curiosity, but the most accurate way to put it is that importance alone is not a criterion.
A certain amount of political overlap has always been part of the mix (that's why the site guidelines say "most" and "probably" - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4922426), but we're careful not to let that part get too large, because we want to preserve HN for its intended purpose.
Here are some links that point to lots of past explanations about this:
some political overlap is ok, but only some - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...
not a current affairs site - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
optimizing for curiosity - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...
not burning to a crisp - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
If you review the first part of https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and then take a look at these links, and still have a question I haven't answered, I'd be happy to take a crack at it.
> 1750 comments, why is it #25 on HN?
This is answered in the FAQ: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html, but I'll expand on what it says there.
Number of comments doesn't make a thread rank higher on HN. Upvotes make it rank higher, and flags make it rank lower. At this moment the balance between upvotes and flags on this story (and other factors, like the time of submission) combine to rank it at #23 or so.
HN's front page is a product of 3 things: community moderation (e.g. upvotes, flags), software moderation (e.g. flamewar detector) and moderator action (e.g. turning off flags, downweighting, or selecting posts for the SCP - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308).
In this case, community moderation was removing the story from the front page altogether (because flags were dominating upvotes). I overrode that by turning off the flags. Why? Because whatever else one says about this story, it is an interesting new phenomenon (a phrase from https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). It may even be unprecedented.
However, I didn't turn off the flags to such a degree that the thread would be at #1 because it is not in HN's interest to have a divisive, indignant, and bellicose topic at the top of the front page. That would send the wrong message about what this site is for. Having this thread on the front page, but lower down, sends an accurate message about what this site is for. (As for what it is and isn't for—that is covered in the links I listed above.)
Another way of putting this is that while it's in HN's interest to have occasional threads on topics like this, it's important that the flames not burn so hot as to risk burning the site to a crisp. After the 'crisp' would come scorched earth, which is not interesting—it would do no good for HN to end up there. It's true that this tends to be the default fate of internet forums, but HN has right from the beginning (https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html) been an experiment in trying to stave that fate off for as long as possible.
scorched earth is not interesting - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
stave that off - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
It's impressive when relatively small rules can so effectively set the vibe. I suppose you could claim you set rules that are well aligned with the eigenvectors of a nerd.
> I suppose you could claim you set rules that are well aligned with the eigenvectors of a nerd.
That's a nice way to put it! I hope that's true.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a less divisive thread than this one, having read _hundreds_ of comments in this thread. There is virtually no flame war going on here and opinions are fairly uniform on the matter at hand.
It’s more incendiary for this pretty civil discussion to be called divisive when there’s hardly any evidence that it is. The comments I most disagree with are all about appeasement, which is in my opinion misguided and coming from a place of saving lives (even if all the evidence is there in practice that it won't in the long run), rather than actively malicious.
I say 'in part' because by far more important is that the bulk of the community is on board with the guidelines (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). We can only make a difference around the edges. But those edges get pretty bad, and without moderation, some of the worst comments can easily turn into tire fires that end up dominating the thread.
I wish this were inessential and superfluous because it would be so much less work! But that's where we're are.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43214243
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43213985
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43213858
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43213854
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43213707
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43213259
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43213210
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43213194
And we thank you for it… but it also does strengthen the argument that it should be higher up exactly because you’ll want to get the most value out of the evident hard work you, and the others, including the very people you’ve called out who frequently apologise, revise, and add some context to why they felt that way, have done here.
It is a better, denser, broader and more considered sort of discussion than you find on reddit or Lemmy, it is confined to a single thread on a big matter, and it features excellent moderation work (and people being responsive to being called out more than even your typical economics post) - it should stand proudly. Moving it down more expediently because it is more divisive on average, I’ll admit that, does us all a disservice in my opinion.
TBH, after seeing the number of upvotes and comments, I wondered why it wasn't ranked higher. Your explanation makes sense to me.
I think you struck the right balance here.
https://news.ycombinator.com/active
Since I’ve discovered active, I actually look at it first to find stuff that got pushed off the front page while I was not looking at HN.
I appreciate the goal of the front page algo quite a bit, but sometimes it pushes interesting stuff off the front page very aggressively if I am not refreshing HN throughout the day.
(I can't remember if I did that because it had kicked in, or if I was being proactive.)
For more info on moderation of this thread and why, see my long comment at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43212835.
If you want more information, I posted a longer answer at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43212835. If you read that and still have a question that isn't answered there, I'd be happy to take a crack at it.
And maybe I should read the FAQ properly before I comment on where a post 'should' be ranked.
Edit: and indeed, the same site generally. That's one thing I used to post a lot about but not so much in recent years.
https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...