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Comment by s1artibartfast | Hacker News Reader

Did trump fold?

I think Europe will see this as a clear sign that Trump just attacked one of their own. I would not be surprised if the EU nations soon call a conclave to discuss establishing a new compact for self defense (and economic interest) that EXCLUDES the US. If this does come to pass, then yes, Trump and all of America will have lost.

This bright shining revelation of just how ugly and stupid Trumpism truly is (and America, by proxy) may realign world powers for decades, to our great loss.

That is an entirely different claim than "trump folds" if anyone pushes back, which doesnt seem at all accurate to me. If anything, he digs in his heels.

The only things that seem to sway him is the sentiment of his voters and the economy.

Bully or not, I think the entire schoolyard theory that bullies fold when pushed back is bunk, cartoon logic. Did Russia give up and go home when Ukraine pushed back?

Maybe start talking about nuclear proliferation within europe. Put more cards on the Table.

Today he claims he never called Zelensky a dictator. You can call that folding, or being senile, or who knows.

It sure is awesome having a president where whenever they say anything that's obviously false, it's a toss-up whether it's dishonesty, senility, or just plain ignorance.

As sarcastic as this is and scary at the same time, when you’re right you’re right. Accountability is such a vapid concept in American discourse it is snipping the last vestiges of social contract between leaders and, well, those they claim to lead. Fear and loathing for what may come.

IMO it’s not a toss up, it’s just dishonesty. After a certain point we have to call a spade a spade.

Hell, even Trump supporters know it. Half the reason I’ve heard for that vote is that they know, and are relying on, Trump lying about various things.

Why vote for someone you know to be a liar? Not sure, but I did learn that non-Trump supporters generally take him much more at his word than Trump supporters.

Also fun, one reason can become another. Remember the sharpie-modified hurricane map? That could start as ignorance - he didn't have specific information on a threat to Alabama, but inferred it from a misjudgment of the information he did have. It could also be senility - he was given good information but he is unable to accurately or reliably retrieve it.

And then it became dishonesty when in the face of plenty of evidence to his being incorrect, he chooses to go on national TV and show a map modified with a marker, insisting he was right all along and no, it is the meteorologists who are wrong.

That was a day or two ago.

IMO, taking personal shots or in this case escorting Zelensky out because he pushed back is folding. That's not strength, it's petulant child energy who didn't get their way. You saw the same thing in the debates over crowd size.

A lot of strange definitions of folding in the responses.

I would consider "folding" to be backing down and giving in to whatever Zelensky requests.

Throwing a tantrum, embarrassing oneself, or even harming your own interests is distinct from folding.

If you tell a mugger, "what are you going to do, shoot me" and they do, the mugger is stupid but didn't fold.

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