Comment by taylodl | Hacker News Reader

Comment by taylodl | Hacker News Reader

I don't want the Democratic Party to pander to voters. I want them to provide a cohesive alternative - which they have done. What they haven't done as good a job with is articulating that alternative.

As has been the case for decades with the Democrats, if people had come out to vote, then Kamala would likely have won. But the turnout was down. Historically, that always favors the Republicans.

What were the people staying at home thinking? What we've heard is they were thinking something along the lines of both parties are the same, so it makes no difference, or they were grousing over how the Democrats weren't forthright about having a primary. Well, they're now realizing both parties are not the same, and those grousing about the lack of a primary are now feeling foolish for sitting out.

BUT - what I'm starting to get really sick of is liberals blaming our current woes on the Democrats. I'm sorry. You knew what Trump was and you knew what was at stake. If that wasn't enough to motivate you to get off your rear end and get to the polls, then that's on you.

Having the only two options being: really bad or less bad, leads to long term problems. Clearly the system needs an overhaul. The DNC wants only small, incremental changes and wants to keep the status quo in place. Trump is a lying piece of shit but the Democratic party is dead to me. They remind me of Cicero trying desperately to keep the Roman Republic alive when it was clearly already dead.

So do you want Cicero or to speed run to the crisis of the third century?

The speed run is here. Nothing will stop it. There is no status quo ante that we can realistically go back to.

You're forgetting why the Roman Empire succeeded. It ended a period of tumult and so brought great prosperity. The people were for it. What's happening in the US today is not that. Things are getting more tumultuous and the prosperity for the majority is being reduced. It's much harder to get, and maintain, people's support for that.

People supporting Trump did so believing their economic situation would improve. Their economic situation is worsening, and we've only just begun. The Roman Empire went in the opposite direction when it first started and so enjoyed the support of the people.

To say "nothing will stop it" is premature.

You are forgetting why it ended, it seems. You appear to me to be Cicero clinging to the way things were and not realizing they’ve changed.

My point is that Trump is no Julius Caesar. Caesar loved Rome and was a brilliant military general, statesman, and orator. Trump, on the other hand, appears to prioritize his own interests and lacks Caesar's positive traits. The Roman Empire, despite its eventual collapse, managed to thrive for over two centuries due to its strong leadership, military prowess, and effective governance. In contrast, the American Empire seems destined for failure before it can even get off the launchpad - maybe that's what you meant when you said we were going straight to collapse?

Are you familiar with Duverger's Law? The "system" doesn't require an overhaul, but how we vote, does.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger's_law

In my opinion the system needs an overhaul. The number of Representatives hasn’t been updated in over 100 years. It is absurd that North Dakota has slightly less federal power than California. The rules of the Senate need to be overhauled and so does our entire representative system. The system set forth by the Constitution is outdated and no longer works.

Short of revolution, I see no viable path forward for a complete overhaul of the American government. While a Constitutional Convention is a theoretical option, replicating such a process today is exceedingly unlikely. The last Constitutional Convention in 1787 was a unique historical moment.

I don't want the Democratic Party to pander to voters.

This is why Trump keeps getting elected. It is all fine and good to stick to your ideals and refuse to pander. But if you alienate the majority of voters, you will never get elected.

I think part of the problem is that Republicans understand that message matters much more than substance much better than Democrats. This is why a former-reality TV star does so well as president. All I hear from a lot of the sort of old-school Democrat flag-bearers (Biden, Jeffries, etc) seems to be this consistent drum beat of, if only people knew what we were doing, they would support us.

> if only people knew what we were doing

Biden never beat his own drum. He expected the facts to speak for themselves. Maybe that worked for his generation, but it was woefully out of touch for younger generations. Thing is, Kamala should have known better. The fact she didn't tells me waylaying Biden wasn't a coup, it was just as big of a surprise to her, and she was unprepared.

So, while "Not Trump" should have been a campaign that succeeded, I certainly understand why people were unimpressed with it. In my case I wasn't so much voting for Kamala as I was voting against Trump - which was a repeat of 2020. I think people are getting tired of that too, they want to believe in something and vote for it. I get it, but that wasn't our reality.

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