State of emergency declared after blackout plunges most of Chile into darkness
cnn.com
cnn.com
Frequency is also impacted by load: the greater the load on the generator the more torque required at its input shaft to maintain the same RPM. If the generator's input engine is already at max torque then RPM must decrease all else equal. That in turn requires that every other generator on the grid also slow down to match.
When a huge chunk of generating capacity disappears there isn't enough power feeding the remaining generator input shafts (all else equal) to maintain RPM so the grid frequency must drop. That tends to destroy customer equipment among other problems.
Generators are motors and motors are generators. If the capacity disappears too quickly the grid _drives the generator as a motor_ potentially with megawatts of capacity all trying to instantly make that 100 ton rotor change from 3600 RPM to 2800 RPM or whatever. Inertia puts its $0.02 and the net result is a disintegrating rotor slinging molten metal and chunks of itself out while the bearings turn into dust.
Protective equipment sees this happening and trips the generator offline to protect it. Usually the coordinating grid entity keeps spare capacity available at all times to respond to loss of other capacity or demand changes. This is also the point of "load shedding": if spare capacity drops below a set level loads are turned off.
If spare capacity is not maintained or transmission line choke points present problems then capacity trip outs can cause progressive collapse as each generator sees excessive load, trips, and in turn pushes excess load to the next generator. If your grid control systems are well designed they can detect this from a central location and command parts of the grid to "island" into balanced chunks of load/capacity so the entire grid does not fully collapse.
Of course when you want to reconnect the islands it takes careful shifting of frequency to get them aligned before you can do that.
If all generators collapse you end up in a black start situation that requires careful staging lest more load than you expected jumps on the grid (maybe due to control devices being unpowered or stuck somewhere), triggering a secondary collapse.
Caveat: not a grid engineer so I may have gotten some of this wrong but hopefully it helps anyone who wonders why load shedding exists or how a grid can "collapse" and what the consequences are if you don't do those things and just let it ride.
Thanks to you, the operators, and the linemen out there keeping it all going. When it works correctly no one notices.
Can you expand on this/link a relevant article? I'm a layman and this sounds really interesting!
Fundamentally electromagnetism is a unified force.
A changing electric field induces a magnetic field: the electricity creates a magnetic field inside the motor-generator causing the rotor's electromagnet or permanent magnet to spin to align with that field. For a DC motor halfway through the rotation the polarity switches causing the rotor to keep spinning to align with the new magnetic field (AC doesn't need this because it is varying on its own). The motor-generator is operating in "motor" mode here because the magnetic field changes first and the rotor is trying to catch up to it ultimately consuming energy.
Now spin a motor's shaft putting energy into the system. The rotor has a magnetic field either because its an electromagnet or a permanent magnet. You are spinning the rotor shaft so by definition the magnetic field coming off the rotor also spins. Thus the stator sees a continuously varying magnetic field which - you guessed it - induces an electric field in the stator windings.
In reality this is a continuously varying effect based on whether the rotor's motion is leading or lagging the magnetic field (really it is trying to lead or lag but never gets far otherwise it would burn up).
The short version is a generator at "idle" but synchronized is a motor. The grid is providing the power to spin that motor (or the attached engine/steam turbine is providing just enough rotation of the shaft to keep the generator synchronized but no more).
As the generator begins to "provide" power more torque is put into the shaft's rotation. This causes the magnetic field to want to lead the electric field, transferring energy into the electric field. The entire grid strongly resists the shaft actually spinning faster though. The mechanical energy that wants to make the rotor go faster is siphoned off by the magnetic flux and electric fields. Electric field steals energy from the magnetic flux. Reduced magnetic flux steals energy from the rotor's angular momentum to replenish itself (if it couldn't the rotor would slow down). The rotor gets angular momentum from the connected source of torque like a steam turbine. The Cycle of Life ... or something.
If you suddenly cut the transmission lines and took no action all that torque would overspeed the generator very quickly though because no electric current could flow so the electric field just builds up (stealing energy from the rotor) then gives the energy right back as more magnetic flux (speeding up the rotor). This would let the rotor just go faster and faster while also heating everything up.
My grid tie solar system does exactly what you say. It monitors the frequency of grid power and matches it dynamically. There are defined parameters for how out of spec it can get and for how long. I don't recall the exact numbers but imagine 0.2Hz for 100ms, 0.5Hz for 1ms, 1Hz for 500ns. Same thing for voltage though that allows a much wider range.
In CA all grid tie solar also requires communication with the utility (through the manufacturer) with a backup connection source (Internet and LTE in my case). This is so if the grid is nearing capacity or going unstable the utility can command the inverters to allow a wider band of voltage and frequency. The last thing the grid needs in an unstable scenario is everyone's solar panels tripping off at the same time.
Technically the utility can also command the panels to stop production if there is an excess supply but they are limited in how long and how often they can do that.
Fun fact: The interconnect operators used to keep track of the average frequency over time and would run the grid slightly fast or slow to ensure the grid averaged 60Hz over time. This allowed clocks and such to maintain time by relying on the grid. That is no longer the case though. I think they still roughly aim for a 60Hz average but if they're behind by 0.01Hz over the past week they no longer run the grid at 60.05Hz for a while to "catch up".
Fun fact number 2 I just learned recently: Southern California used to be on 50Hz! That's right, the USA had split cycle just like Japan. Most of the country on 60Hz, SoCal on 50Hz. Right after WW2 they made the switch apparently. I guess a lot of stuff was dual frequency capable at the time but the utility provided assistance where required.
Fun fact number 3: Ever wonder why we have 110/220 or 115/230 or 120/240? Because every local utility picked their own standard: 110 (from Edison's DC system carried over into AC world), 115, or 120. It was not until relatively recently that we really standardized on 120/240 (+/- 5% which is 114 - 126 but with brief excursions allowed). That's why some old appliances might say 110 or 115 on them.
Fun fact number 4: 120/240 is a backwards compatibility hack. It was too late to change to 240 and 120 is (for physical reasons) better for electric lighting applications (thicker less fragile filament for same light output). How to solve this? Change your MV-LV transformers to 240 but center tap them. Instead of Line-Neutral you provide customers Line 1 - Neutral - Line 2. Connections across L1/L2 give you 240 volts, connections across L1-N or L2-N give you 120 volts! Everyone's happy! There is a NEMA plug standard for low-amp 240V. It has both blades horizontal (looks like the unimpressed smiley face). I wish it were more popular in kitchens for boiling water and such.
Essentially braking, right?
It was nice to see the stars though.
* A power company failed to trim trees from its power lines properly. Four of their major transmission lines failed in one afternoon due to shorting out via tree.
* The software bug you mentioned caused a failure to alarm the power company of two of their line failures. The first and fourth failures were alarmed in real time.
* A separate issue rendered the regional grid operator's software modeling real-time grid instability inoperable for most of the afternoon. Crucially, if this had been running, the operator would have realized that the failure of one more line would have created grid instability requiring immediate action.
* The final line trip set off a cascade of overloads trips until Sammis-Star overloads and trips. This takes about 15 minutes, and analysis suggests that the Sammis-Star trip is when the blackout became inevitable.
* Sammis-Star triggers lines to fail one-by-one from east to west, until it severed every line in Ohio and Michigan. This causes a large power surge to go from Michigan through southern Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York, Ontario, back into Michigan and then into the final demand of Cleveland.
* Essentially every link along this spiral fails in the course of a few seconds, creating several grid islands. Whether these grid islands black out is dependent on the local mismatch between generation and consumption.
(Full story from https://web.archive.org/web/20120318081212/http://www.nerc.c...).
On the other side you will see frequency drops, which will do the same.
I do not know what Chiles power production looks like, but it would be a huge challenge for any power network to deal with one of the main lines suddenly dropping out.
In this case, there is room for improvement, at some cost to be determined from a post mortem.
A bit of decentralization goes a long way.
https://www.gambit-energystorage.com/
https://www.angleton.tx.us/DocumentCenter/View/3793/Gambit-E...
https://www.ercot.com/files/docs/2024/01/12/Tesla%20BESS%20G...
They've been pushing the envelope on battery tech for some time now, and finding very useful, if at times novel, uses for it.
Hot take: Bring back JB Straubel (Former Tesla CTO). That’s who is the equivalent of BYD’s CEO. A driven, yet low key engineering leader. Culture comes from the top.
HN Search: BYD (sorted by date) - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
Where's the value add in buying a Tesla battery instead of just getting one from one of their suppliers?
With that said, BYD has a strong offering and recently landed a large contract (12.5 GWh) in Saudi Arabia.
https://www.energy-storage.news/tesla-starts-production-at-s...
https://www.tesla.com/support/energy/tesla-software/autobidd...
https://www.pv-magazine.com/2025/02/17/byd-to-supply-12-5-gw...
With the switch to 21700 and 4680 batteries, they make their own (in China and I think some other US-based gigafactory)
The Chinese are far ahead of Tesla, specifically BYD
Tesla are not doomed (hyper inflated share price might be) but they have been over taken on all fronts
Elon still has the best rockets....
https://www.nrel.gov/grid/grid-forming-inverter-controls.htm...
It’s very weird, indeed
In fact that’s how individual sections of the grid set power flow limits, by ensuring they stop leading when they reach their max capacity. fascinating really
For example, you can't just turn on all the power plants. Ignoring the phase issue, power plants require some power to operate (which is where the flywheels and batteries come into play). This means you need to isolate them, and bring them up one-at-a-time (and you probably want to isolate consumers until the whole process is complete). How do you coordinate this in the absence of power/internet? Radios, but now you have to worry about the logistics surrounding that. Do you have a stockpile of petroleum that can be tapped without power, because your people aren't getting on-site in a reasonable time without a car. How familiar are people with the process, having never practiced it?
Black-start-region and join-regions should be enough to get a whole grid going?
Electric grid get more reliable with scale, not less (that's why parts of North Africa is interconnected with Europe, which itself is interconnected all the way to Russia).
Small grids (like islands) are always a nightmare to manage for that reason.
Had you read the Wikipedia page you posted, you'd have realized that they planned to use dedicated HVDC lines under the Mediterranean to carry the power, and not the Spain-Moroco interconnection.
But you need mountains and water. Chile has a lot of those
Many modern countries have experienced rolling black- and brown-outs in the past ~25 years. It's not an easy thing to sidestep without a lot of spare capacity and that takes money that nobody has the appetite to spend.
One piece of infrastructure trips offline, causing an abnormal situation at another, which then trips etc.
That pipeline/powerline is your single point of failure.
It is still a single network, but you need multiple failures to manifest into a cascading issue like this.
What you're probably thinking of is more akin to distributed system which fails when any one component fails, i.e. modern microservice architectures, aka distributed monoliths. But that's not the case here, because you constantly have minor issues on the grid. They're just continuously being handled. What becomes the issue is the cascade, with each failure increasing the likelihood of a following failure etc.
In web developer terms, this is as if a production k8s cluster fails because a node went offline, which rebalanced too many containers to another node which ran out of memory, causing it to crash and starting the cascade, ultimately ending with adjacent clusters starting to crash because of the error quotas etc
It starts with a small thing at 12:15 p.m. and takes a while for other things to happen. But then bam 4:05:57 p.m. to 4:13 p.m. results in:
End of cascading failure. 256 power plants are off-line, 85% of which went offline after the grid separations occurred, most due to the action of automatic protective controls.It's very interesting when there is ZERO internet or any other form of external communication. In hind-sight I'd say it was an interesting short simulation for the zombie apocalypse.
Gonna be a lot of discarded food in Chile over the next few days...
This is underestimating the ludicrous amount of power an EV's batteries have. You can absolutely power your house for days on end using one. (Of course, that should also give us pause to think about what it means that we spend so much energy for transportation compared to household necessities.) And gasoline has plenty of problems too, like its extremely short shelf-life.
I look at the size of those, and the size of a random Tesla, and I can easily see two of these shoved into the baseboard of a Tesla, much less the larger vehicles.
I know the Ford Lightning was advertised as a potential back up power source for the home.
The real trick is getting the power out of the battery and in to the home itself. It's one thing to run an extension cord to the refrigerator, quite another to get the battery plugged into your home circuitry. That requires more preparation, as well as an electrician.
Expensive way is to get some manufacturer specific automatic transfer switch (I got Tesla's put in). The hardware is $2500 and the labor is $4K+.
I did both and used both during a recent week long outage.
So there you have it, I get about one full day. Not "days on end".
On a hot day yeah I'd be running the A/C but ideally you'd have solar to offset much of that.
Average home uses 30kwH / day. Average EV battery size 40kwh. Correct not days on end, but at least a full day to full capacity, and perhaps a few days at reduced capacity. My Ioniq 5 has an 84kwH battery so I guess I'd get a bit further.
Be choosy about the EV, not all of them have this feature (Tesla, for instance, doesn’t last I checked). That said, after we got our Hyundai (and the vehicle-to-load adapter), I sold our generator to a neighbor. Less than a year later, we both got to test our electrical backups.
Hopefully you were going to buy an EV anyway, because a nice generator is about $1000. A Hyundai Ioniq 5 is considerably more than that.
vs
EV => $8000 - $40000
Bidirectional charging infra => $2000 - $5000
PV => $5000 - $15000
Heat pump => $5000 - $10000
That's an awful lot of money that you're proposing people spend in order to cover a rare occurrence. Of course there's day-to-day value in having all of that which a backup generator cannot provide, but in a power outage, you'd probably rather just have the cheap gas generator, and maybe a $1000-ish "solar generator" (i.e. battery pack with inverter) that you can use to load-shift the generator. Run the genny during the day to charge the battery; run the fridge, lights, and phone charger from the battery overnight.
Here’s video summary https://youtu.be/ZmmhOXsIRjw?si=eZh_MCWJjhrwNpm9
The trick with Bolt EVs is that one must have the car on, because the high voltage battery will not engage when the car is off for safety reasons. Also, the car shuts off every hour of unless the seatbelt is fastened. This is not a big deal.
Also keeping people out of the damn fridge. But that can be modified through other means.
Where do you live?
A less reactive and better long term plan would be investing in tech that simultaneously reduces your monthly electricity bills and makes you more resilient against grid failures: solar + battery. It's not a solution in the middle of a black out. But a great one for dealing with the next one.
I have no idea how reliable the grid in Chile is. But even the southern tip is at -52 degrees latitude, which means their winters are about as dark as at +52 latitude, like Berlin, Germany where I live where solar power is very popular Anything in between (most of the US, except Alaska) gets enough sun hours to make solar panels a very useful fallback (with seasonal limitations obviously); and you can also keep your batteries topped up with grid power too using e.g. cheap off-peak power.
A cheaper alternative could be to pick up a few portable batteries and solar panels from Amazon. You can get a nice plug and play setup that will power some essential things for a while for a few thousand dollar/euro. Running the AC off such a setup is not going to be a thing. But you could run a small fridge for a half a day or so, keep phones laptops charged, and keep the lights on. Some people buy generators just so they can top up their batteries when solar falls short and run completely off-grid otherwise.
> You can get a nice plug and play setup that will power some essential things for a while for a few thousand dollar/euro
A petrol generator that will do this can be had for like $400.
Additionally, a good tri-fuel generator is often less than $1000 so you have power even if you can't get petrol.
I stayed away from discussing propane because it's adding another variable. I too thought that was the way to go, until I realized it doesn't work so well in the winter because the self-evaporation rate is too low. It my experience it takes 3x 20lb tanks teed together to run my small 2500 watt inverter generator, and the baseline load isn't even that much.
If the electrical grid fails to the point that you're days or weeks without power, having your food unfrozen is going to be the least of your problems.
Yep.
> If the electrical grid fails to the point that you're days or weeks without power, having your food unfrozen is going to be the least of your problems.
Happens several times a decade on the Atlantic coast of the US. Well, the days do, at least. Weeks, probably not.
The battery you can keep charged, and the generator you can keep new in the box until you actually think you'll be in a prolonged outage. You can run fridge, internet, lamps off the battery for a solid day. The #1 thing that screws people with the small engines is maintenance after some initial amount of usage. Gasoline turns into jello in the fuel system after a ~year in storage. Oil needs to be changed frequently. Don't run gas through that small engine unless you really think you'll need it. LP/LNG is much cleaner, but can be harder to obtain and use.
I think of these small inverter generators as a one use/emergency item. Once I fire it up, it's on a 200 hour death timer. It only costs around $600 for a brand new unit. Catastrophic, multi-day outages don't happen often.
"There's too much bureocracy in customs for electrical imports, make it laxer, also no restriction on plug types
It is a problem for importing large quantities to resell though, I'm not defending the ability to import 100s of death traps and sell them to people.
I think plug types are not a great risk as users will usually not want that. But in my head the risk is that we import 500k of something that technically works, but is off spec by 10V or 10hz, or the tolerance specs are too wide or too small. It's obvious how too small of a tolerance can cause issues, but too wide isn't ideal either, as there's tradeoffs, you end up importing swiss knife products. Which makes sense for big expensive electronics, but stuff like phone chargers? Subterranean or aerial cabling?
The task of verifying the quality of something is distinct from the task of verifying that it conforms to the local standards. And I wouldn't put it past the cargo culting governments to figure that if it's good enough for the US it's good enough for us.
Power was partially restored within 44 minutes, but it was more like 2-6hrs before it was back and stable depending on the area.
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I'm not too mad at the initial outage, this kind of thing happens, but I'm ashamed of how many emergency contingencies didn't work great. In Chile we kind of expect a natural disaster to take down power or communications in a large area without much warning due to earthquakes. For instance power is meant to go down locally after a ~7 M_{W} earthquake as a safety feature, so it's going to go down even if it's no one's fault, but the protocols and safety nets didn't work great. Traffic was a mess in cities, particularly Santiago which heavily relies on the subway to get people around, some critical infrastructure had no backup power (Mobile antennas, few Hospitals). Some people reacted poorly IMO, many went to fill up their gas tanks when it made absolutely no sense to me. I guess we really need solar to spread more so people don't even think about using their cars to charge their phones.
I'm also annoyed that most modern cellphones have no AM/FM receivers. Mobile coverage and networks are good, but they stands no chance if everyone suddenly tries to use them.
[^1]: I guess a mix of a power surge together with high temperatures triggered this. I've seen a small transformer explode as it got shorted and light up the cooling oil.
https://spaceweather.com/archive.php?view=1&day=25&month=02&...
FYI - The 3rd worlds power grid, mostly near the equator isn't as resilient to solar storms as the U.S. and other nations in the Northern Hemisphere who've had to harden there grids against such things due to repeated solar incidents. Often because they have no redundancy when a line surges.
> Authorities also announced a curfew in effect from 10 p.m. Tuesday until 6 a.m. Wednesday.
Personally I could understand that both policing and emergency response with no light at night might just become impossible. All the streetlights are presumably out, making walking difficult. If all of the traffic lights are also not working at night, it seems extremely dangerous. And any criminal would be camouflaged by all of the chaos. Much simpler to police the very act of being outside.
I agree it's not ideal, but I wouldn't thin end of the wedge it.
Chile is also relatively lightly populated, with the vast majority of its population in Santiago - which is pretty dense.
If anywhere in Chile is going to have a sudden crime spree if there was an opportunity, Santiago would be pretty much it.
Does the Bay Area have generators, battery backup for critical emergency services like police and emergency medical care?
In many locations your utility will give a substantial discount to power if you have a backup generator and will allow your utility to switch you to running only on the generator when power demand is high. It that is the case nearly every business will have a generator - it is almost paid for off the discounts and so the ability to run normally when the power is out makes it worth it.
In Mississippi I saw generators on 20 foot poles so they would keep operating even when a hurricane flooded the whole region (they probably went in after the hurricane where it would have been needed...). I wouldn't expect that in the Bay area, but it it shows what is considered normal in places that have earned a reputation as backward.
I know Chile is not the richest country, but my impression is they are good enough that I'd expect generators in all the important places at least. Though still power off will turn the city dark overall.
Generators are extremely common at hospitals, emergency dispatch centers, cell phone towers, nursing homes, natural gas and water pump stations, police and fire stations, data centers, etc.
Aka there was plenty of time for people to know what is going on, no one was really surprised, agencies had time to prepare and roll out contingencies, etc.
In this case, no one seems to really know what caused it, let alone have had any warning. And Santiago is the national capital.
For all they know, someone intentionally crashed the grid in order to take the country.
What would you expect the US gov’t to do if Washington DC suddenly and unexpectedly completely lost power? I guarantee it would be pretty much the same thing.
Planned outage vs unplanned outage.
contingencies
Caltrans and PG&E had to be shamed into providing power for the Caldecott tunnel. The contingency was basically just shut everything down including tunnels and whatnot.PG&E didn't share their list of folks who required electricity for medical equipment with counties, didn't actually contact everyone effected, and didn't communicate specifically when the power was going to be on/off to most of them. PG&E (still) doesn't do "well communicated".
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-10/unprecede...
PG&E has restored power to 228,000, or 31%, of customers in parts of the San Francisco
Bay Area after high winds died down and inspections and repairs were complete, Vice
President Sumeet Singh said during a press briefing. More than 100,000 had already
regained service earlier Thursday. About 510,000 were still without power.
Over eight hundred thousand is a bit more than a few hundred thousand.The blackout in 2003 in NYC had no looting or violence.
The blackout in Maracaibo Venezuela in 2019 had 350 stores looted and 550+ people arrested.
The difference was the economic and social challenges in 1977 in NYC and 2019 in Venezuela. A recession and high unemployment.
Since then night curfews are a given during and after disasters.
Otherwise you can grab power and refuse to relinquish it after a real emergency that justified the executive powers.
In particular: getting Trump to rescind his border "emergency" will be a long slow process of organizing and accumulating public pressure, whereas there will be an overwhelming amount of public pressure to end the curfew as soon as the power is restored.
Luckily, I flew out of Chile on Saturday. Although it felt like it was the safest place I have visited in South America so far the empty white powdered dime bags on the sidewalk, people telling me to be very careful walking alone at night, razor wire and electrified fences around properties was a reminder of how dangerous it is.
All of South America is outside France.
Did you mean to type something else?
Most of France is in Europe, but most is different than all.
Of course many drunken bonfires end up needing health care and/or firefighting. However they need not. How do you fix your friends?
A bonfire is what I want people doing. they have fun and with some care is safe enough. They can enjoy the power outage instead of complain about how awful life is.
Certainly some towers may have onsite generators with fuel set to automatically run, but not the ones around me, and I've had two multiday outages this winter.
Landlines should work, but I don't know if Chile has many of them. I know they're rare here in Washington State. Wired internet is a maybe, depending on provider choices.
One hastily put together without the benefits of electricity is less likely to be properly planned. Hundreds if not thousands of groups doing the same thing ensures a certain number are going to cause problems. And with emergency services already stressed, banning risky behavior seems fair.
If we had a system, were you could register yourself and the society would be allowed to not help you, that would be great. But no we have a medical code (which funny enough is not enough to let woman die when they have a difficult/livethreatening pregnancy...)
As I see it, in a well running society there is enough trust to give everyone flexibility in the short term. If everyone assumes worst intentions and outcomes then your society is effectively no longer functioning. At which point a curfew is the least of your worries.
Plus, both natural persons and enterprises could ask for curfew passes via a website (Comisaria Virtual) created during the COVID-era for doing police paperwork online. Military/police staff were especially understanding and people who didn't have a pass when checked were allowed to get one on-site using their smartphones.
It was as soft as a curfew can get. I didn't see any important backlash on social networks if that says anything to you.
For the average chilean: As long as you had 4G-5G equipment with working batteries, you had internet and access to essential gov services.
Nowadays some antennas go down right after a power outage because they don't have backup batteries. People also realised that they are quite pricey, so people melting copper lines moved to stealing batteries after the shift to optic fiber. To me this activity is straight out terrorism as it takes down critical infrastructure, I'm generally leftist, but ready to shoot these people on the spot if I actually had a gun.
This comment doesn't seem to have gone down well with the community, but I wonder why. "Emergency" alone does not justify curfews. Curfews are only justified if they are reasonably expected to actually affect the thing that is driving the emergency. This may well be the case with a disease, but here the emergency is simply that the infrastructure needs to be restored.
My parents have a place in the German countryside and they are practically self-sufficient in terms of energy. I would definitely want to take the opportunity to visit them, catch up with them, use the time in a socially productive way, etc. I have done countless treks, even for weeks at a time, without having to depend on continuous electricity.
Why should there be a curfew just because there is no electricity on the grid?
Imagine doing rolling curfews in countries like South-Africa synced with rolling blackouts - just because some vague and hand-wavy "oh so dangerous". Sounds surreal.
Because that genuinely is dangerous?
Do you deny that people are more likely to commit crimes of opportunity when the lights are off, security cameras are offline, and communication systems are down?
A rise in the likelihood of crime is a gradual, probabilistic matter, whereas a curfew is an absolute, binary restriction on freedoms. (Although in this particular case, fortunately, it seems to be quite lax.) If power outages were a sufficient justification for curfews, we would need clear, documented evidence of the crime increase, measured against other contributing factors, and balanced with the fundamental rights being restricted.
In Germany, for example, crime (and hospitalization) spikes on New Year's Eve—yet no one seriously argues for a curfew every December 31st. The mere presence of an increased risk does not automatically override the need for a proportional response.
Otherwise, any statistical uptick in crime could be used as a pretext to suspend civil liberties without proper consideration of competing rights and interests.
None of this is new knowledge.
There seems to be general distrust of government in western society. When people in Chile seem to have no problem with the curfew, why are non-Chileans so concerned?
>"Emergency" alone does not justify curfews. Curfews are only justified if they are reasonably expected to actually affect the thing that is driving the emergency. This may well be the case with a disease, but here the emergency is simply that the infrastructure needs to be restored.
This makes no sense.. Sometimes, you treat the symptoms, sometimes you take preventive measures against the symptoms while you buy time to address the root cause.
Why do you think that? Stating a difference in civic requirements does not change any of the arguments put forward. I can move around a city without electricity. And so can you.
> There seems to be general distrust of government in western society. When people in Chile seem to have no problem with the curfew, why are non-Chileans so concerned?
This may not be a popular view in the U.S. government right now, but there are good reasons to distrust governments. In fact, most societies have embedded this distrust into the government itself through interlocking powers, constitutions, rule of law, etc.. The desire for good government decisions is not unique to the people of Chile.
> Sometimes, you treat the symptoms, sometimes you take preventive measures against the symptoms while you buy time to address the root cause.
Note how vague you seem to remain about the actual benefits of a curfew. It's a pattern we see in many of the replies on this thread. I think this vagueness is probably an indicator that some commenters don't really know a good reason, but feel the need to argue in favour of a curfew.
... although I do not really understand this motivation. It's a policy decision like countless others, and I have no strong feelings one way or the other - but maybe I'm missing the emotional part.
I was there for a couple of weeks visiting friends back then and we even used a ridiculous, ad-laden app to look up "our" blackout times. It is also a strong case study for large-scale consumer-led solar expansion, perhaps together with Pakistan. ( https://www.weforum.org/stories/2024/11/pakistan-solar-power... )
On the African continent alone, it is estimated that some 600 million people in sub-Saharan Africa still have no access to reliable electricity. (Src.: https://iea.blob.core.windows.net/assets/0f028d5f-26b1-47ca-... ) Reliable and non-discriminatory (at least not prohibitively expensive) access to electricity remains a serious human development issue.
Chile has a history of looting after natural disasters. It also has a history of massive protests that often cause damage and sometimes turn violent. (The current president certainly knows, as he was a big student leader during one wave of student protests.) In a country like that, a one-night curfew is a reasonable precaution after a country-wide blackout.
Then travel there during the day? Why do you then need to go outside at night?
It's certainly the case in both the US + Europe in my experience.