Similar to what other commenters have expressed, it just seems like they shouldn't have built this product if they couldn't figure out the soldered RAM bit.
It’s also not that absurd pricing of the modules themselves but of the R&D effort to cram 4 CAMMs onto a board with sufficient signal integrity
This is also being seen in the X3D CPU's where the memory is stacked on top to reduce latency and as density was maxed in 2d space.
So to ensure 256 bits @ 8000 MHz works well AMD did it in the same package. In theory they could A) ship a halo without ram B) design a new socket, C) allow motherboard makers to pick 2 x CUDIMMs or 4x DDR5 dimms. Not sure that would buy them much market though.
As apple and others have proved, not many care about replaceable dimms, especially if it gives them 2-3x the performance and/or better perf/watt.
All that aside, I absolutely can't wait for desktops to decide to go the same route of having 4 memory channels instead of 2. Right now the only way to have >2 channels is to buy workstation/server class stuff or an APU.
BTW, careful with "channels". Todays normal desktops and laptops (besides the strix halo and apple pro/max/ultra) are 128 bits wide. But in the DDR4 -> DDR5 transition they doubled the number of channels to 4. However the strix halo biggest advantage is the extra memory bandwidth going from 128 bits wide to 256 bits wide.
Finally the technology of the ps5 and XboxX comes to laptops, tablets, and small desktops.
The Ryzen AI Max+ 395 was paper launched a month ago. What Framework announced here is just another pre-order (even batch 1 won't ship until Q3). There are dozens of other systems, including mini-PCs, announced months ago which are set to launch before this. Small laptops were actually the first 395+ products to launch, hence this month's benchmark reviews all used them. E.g. https://www.tomsguide.com/computing/laptops/gaming-laptops/a...
I would not be surprised if one will be able to get a full 128 GB 395+ mini PC for less than the cost of the Framework Desktop baseboard before the Framework Desktop actually starts arriving in hands. What you're buying here is a premium to be able to replace the shell and front USB ports.
I haven't found any other with a committed release/ship date.
This Reddit thread tends to agree: https://www.reddit.com/r/MiniPCs/comments/1ieiate/when_are_r...
Even the Asus Z13 laptops with the 395+ have no shipping date yet.
Looking at the two GMKtec systems with their rattling fans I have here, I would rather take the Framework system where I can easily swap the fan. Cooling those 100-120W will take space and air flow.
Plenty of folks on Reddit have already received shipment (not order) confirmation of the Z13. It looks like even more as of this morning. I doubt if any have actually fully received said shipments yet as it has only been a couple days since launch. It'll likely remain pretty out of stock unless you managed to get an order immediately at launch, again due to the paper launch of the 395 last month and low 395 availability until Q2.
I didn't know HP was making one too! That'll be exciting as it's easier to order that at my work than e.g. an ASUS one or what have you.
That's me! I'm that person! \o/
Consider it a low-price alternative to mac mini or nvidia’s box.
This can also be chained though not as effectively as macs for example (those have thunderbolt for interconnect)
This starts at 1099$ per the article, so the mac mini is the low-price alternative here.
Select 32
It's not exactly an out of the park win though as it's only $100-$200 cheaper and it trends poorly the farther from comparing base models you go (particularly after 64 GB, for which you need to leave the Mini family for the Studio). By the time you get to 128 GB, which you'd want for the 70B class AI models, you end up back at the original statement.
However those are the base M4 chip and not the M4 Pro. You need the M4 Pro to get competitive in GPU compute numbers for a more like to like comparison. The M4 Pro mini comes out at $1800 with the 48GB option, or $2000 for 64GB. For the same price the Framework machine gets you 128GB.
Every large AI model is heavy memory bandwidth constrained to the point my 9800X3D (with the extra L3 cache) and 128 GB/s memory attached is only 60% utilized running a 32 GB model in CPU only mode (no NPU, iGPU, or GPU offload enabled). Really small AI models can start to be compute bound but, at that point, you don't really need the 32 GB of memory anymore and probably just want a normal GPU.
Also fully spec'd at 128gb is $2000, which only gets you a 64gb mac mini
I guess they'd claim it is only the MAX AMD procs which force soldered RAM, but since they could as well have used a non-MAX chip (and correspondingly reduce the price) this just shows how much of this is an arbitrary, and therefore questionable, decision from Framework rather than any restriction AMD sets.
If LPCAMM already can't keep up with requirements when it is barely even out, then my guess is it won't fare well going forward.
So 1 of 2 things is probably true:
AMD is not being completely truthful with their statements that LPCAMM wasn't able to work (maybe it was just more difficult/complicated than they were willing to do, but it could work or
latency/speed requirements have already outpaced what LPCAMM can provide and soldered ram is the future.
I really hope it's the former, but it wouldn't be the first time something like the second has occurred. Apparently cache also used to be a separate, swappable component before it became integrated into the die. RAM might end up going the same way.