Dogs may have domesticated themselves because they liked snacks, model suggests

My dog for instance is not particularly food motivated. He believes strongly that there is “food” and “better food” and will hold off until he’s really hungry to eat something that’s just food. But he’s very motivated by attention. He will do tricks for treats he doesn’t like and then drop the treat on the floor once you give it to him.

The rescue org asked all fosters to crate train their dogs. The first I fostered was a lab mix. He hated his crate, but all I had to do was throw one piece of kibble in and he would sprint inside. As soon as I locked the door he would whine, for upwards of 30 minutes, which was hard for a first time dog owner. I kept checking the camera I setup until he finally settled down and I was able to relax. This routine happened every time.

The other one was a Boxer/Pit mix. He would not go into his crate for all the kibble in the world. He just didn't care. He knew what would happen if he went in, so he wouldn't budge. When I eventually managed to coax him inside, and I closed the door, he was totally silent. He made the choice to go in knowing what would happen. This happened every time.

So based on my limited experience, food motivation is not about whether or not a dog wants to eat, but what other desires that desire for food (even when not particularly hungry) will override.

For them food is absolutely ignored if there’s a possibility of something to do. Food in a bowl and a ball nearby? Food is secondary to ball. We used to worry about our border collie and have to constantly make effort to lock him in a room with food so he’d eat and not just allow the other dogs to take the food.

Cats can be similarly ‘fussy’ as well. I have two indoor cats, a Garfield (can’t leave food out near him or he’ll eat to the point of throwing up) and one thats play obsessed and not at all interested in food except as needed at the most minimal levels. Makes it hard to feed them since one needs food left out to graze and the other has to be controlled.

e.g. our border collies will do things for you just because it's interesting to them or because they figure it might please you. Without treats. Look at a collie herd sheep or ducks, and they're totally blissing out on it, and they don't get food rewards after. It's just something they love to do.

There's other dogs who won't do anything unless they get a tasty treat out of it.

My other cats are all at least normally motivated by food.

As an adult it becomes a relationship, and the dog is more responsive to praise and criticism.

That is what is meant IMO by "food motivated"

Feeding time is best, best ever, joy joy, for their entire lives

Even in a mostly smooth walnut brain, there exists a genetically diverse hierarchy of desires. My dog was the runt of the litter, a different puppy was the glutton that ate every scrap in 10 seconds.

Now, 7 years later, she's picky. She'll spit out some food I give her if it isn't appealing enough. She can still obviously be motivated with food and treats, but it's far less unconditional.

- the treats you have are good-enough (better have delicious chicken, otherwise, no dice)

- she hasn’t decided that there isn’t something else she’d rather be doing

- hours much of a process she feels like being today.

You can motivate her with food only on her terms. Conversely, my partners dog would commit crimes just to be near the cheese packet.

Food motivated is usually the degree to which a dog responds to food in conjunction with other stimulus. When food is used for training as opposed to their normal meals.

Some dogs when training don't respond to food as much as other dogs.

You're assuming we weren't also remolded to them.

Growing up on a farm, the relationship with the dogs made sense to me. They worked, we worked, we both got food and shelter, and were better off than if we didn't have each other. After work, there was time to be friends. A dog who is just a pet that sits in the house all day and waits for the family to come home is harder for me to understand.

1. https://www.science.org/content/article/what-makes-dogs-so-f... (Link to the primary text is in here but I find the scientific news articles to be easier to read)

I've successfully trained my dog to be non-reactive towards squirrels/birds/etc. on walks. The other day she walked by a rabbit from within a few feet, and hardly gave it even a look. And I felt bad, as though I've suppressed her natural self and ability to be excited about such a thing. She's now pacified to live in my world.

An irrational feeling, because she's now at much less risk of being run over by a vehicle, but it was a feeling nonetheless.

Assuming humans don't wipe themselves out, dogs and cats and many other species will outlive the Earth itself.

If humans are the most successful species on the planet, dogs are second.

Dogs as an entire species would not exist at all without humans. If dogs hadn't co-evolved with humans, we'd only have wolves. It's more than just simple domestication like cats and goats, dogs evolved into a new species alongside early humans. They aren't simply wild animals that tolerate humans, this is an entire species specifically evolved to be the ideal companion to humans. The entire point and purpose of this species is only to be companions to humans, that's what they evolved to be. By and large dogs need human companionship and suffer without it.

While the relationship between humans and dogs is very symbiotic, I think dogs get the better end of the deal. All their needs and wants as a species are taken care of by humans, the species will exist forever, and all the dogs have to do is learn the best way to beg for belly rubs.

We have dogs because dogs want us to have them.

The more I'm around animals the more I feel like they really matter, I've looked into their eyes and seen love and frustration and grief. It's a tragedy how callously we treat them in general.

This is not correct. Humans have been selectively breeding animals and plants for thousands of years.

Also dogs, for most of human history, provided services (hunting and security) to humans in exchange for "petship". It's only a very recent phenomena that (many but not all) pet dogs have to provide nothing to humans besides companionship. It is now that the maladaptation in dogs have started to appear because of the one way relationship.

What 'value' outside of entertainment does that provide to the humans?

Human beings aren't all always that transactional. "Homo economicus" is joked about for good reasons.

You can easily imagine situations where a) food is in a temporary surplus due to a successful hunt, so there is little downside to wasting some and b) a sentimental child has access to it.

Although it turns out domesticated dogs have a wide number of uses _now_, early humans had no idea that would be the case, they probably just liked feeding the wolves.

Edit: there is also speculation that "feeding" wasn't entirely deliberate, that wolves started eating scraps from the garbage piles close to early human settlements and the ones that were friendly to humans (likely children especially) evolved closer and closer into dogs.

> Wolves had to choose to stay near humans to eat food scraps...

I don't read that humans fed the wolves scraps, just that wolves ate scraps, probably discarded by humans.

Then one day maybe a bold doggo decides to hang out closer, and bam, a shitty disney movie is born. ;D

Human groups that intentionally or unintentionally fed surrounding wolves are at an advantage. The presense of wolves near the humans would drive off more aggressive predators, which also helps up the local prey populations.

Human groups that did not feed or intentionally drove off wolves are at a disadvantage and more likely to be eaten during the night, or be out-competed for food.

Repeat for a million years or until your wolf grows eyebrows.

Additionally, wolves share their hunt with their pack. It's possible that some early groups were fed at least partially by the wolves hunting for them. If that dynamic ever got established, that group would be at a tremendous advantage.

It's the same reasons they feed dogs.

Human feces is very attractive to a dog. So perhaps not deliberate?

> settling into a mutually-beneficial relationship in which they hunted and ate rodents in exchange for food.

Cats mostly hunt birds, because rondents are smarter, faster, stronger and have weapons (teeth).

Also humans and primates throw rocks and sticks at predators. Early dogs must have been caught as puppies, or their parents killed by humans and their flesh eaten.

The whole model has been domesticated to portray a cartoony interaction.

Some ancient races still have those very old instincts of hunting and being independent, even doing some weird scream when given a bone or a having found a potential "hunt". (that's how people used to hunt!)

Youtube shiba scream :-)

All my previous dogs (>5) would always prefer the snack though.

Wolves will scavenge if they are hungry enough, and will eat food humans may have found unfit, such as bones. So they may have come to view humans as a source of food, but were too timid to attack, and followed around hunter/gatherer tribes. The wolves would be little more than an annoyance, if the humans even notice them at all. Generally the wolf is going to notice you before you notice it - they have superior sense of smell and hearing. In an environment with heavy vegetation (i.e. forest), thats going to count for alot more than vision.

On the other side of the coin, its possible the humans also followed around the wolves who would have been superior trackers with better sense of smell/hearing, mutually beneficial hunts may have been possible.

Eventually, a tolerance could have developed and the tribe found the wolves useful for things like, keeping away more dangerous predators such as large cats/bears/etc. or even rival packs of wolves. They would also be useful as a alarm system. Given enough time, the more sociable wolves, yet less dangerous, wolves may have selected for. There is a theory that dogs are basically wolves whose mental developed stopped at the younger ages, and lack independence like adult wolves have.

You don't start with the adults.

You kill the adults and raise the pups.

Even today, there are wolf sanctuaries with wild wolves who've become quite friendly and acclimated to their carers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gePE-_lrJUU