Hacker News Reader

Comment by intended | Hacker News Reader

Would love to know why you say what you do. Do you work in the field?

I just switched over to a firm in the power generator sector in India, and the Govt Contracts for power are beasts. Those are things which we make sure we go over every page to fulfill.

They are also not that archaic - their backup/redundancy planning exists, at least on paper. We've supplied it for various institutions/bodies. Plus the Engineers in BHEL and the like are pretty smart chaps, sure they may be slow but they are far from being daft. (Again! My experience, and mileage will vary)

Not sure about how bad the architecture is, or how badly designed it is either. From what I recall quality levels are a patchwork. As I assume are equipment quality levels.

I'm not well versed in this, so I'm more interested in learning, whats going on.

View on HN

I'm working in the industrial power sector in the Middle East. With zero work experience in India, I'd love to be informed the process of how both private and government entities acquire equipment and clearances for medium and high voltage application. Basically, how bureaucratic is the process actually?

Hmm, perhaps if you could clarify I may be able to she some light.

In general if you wanted to buy stuff, it's usually not an issue.

Clearances wise, hmm. Well I guess that depends, for a transformer in a factory to obtain power from the grid, the transformer owner needs a load sanction. Load sanction is essentially how much you anticipate from the grid.

An engineer from the electrical inspectorate/electricity board will come and then verify.

The load sanction application is made to the local electricity board.

You likely won't have to pay(bribe) for the load sanction, and the process isn't that bureaucratic. Still that depends on the states.

Do note recently joined, getting up to speed on the system. If you give more clarity on what you are expecting, perhaps I could help more.

I'm not much into the clearances part, only the buying side.

You need to submit the type test reports and submittals to the Energy Board and then they approve the equipment. This takes around a month or so. Once you've got the parts, you can install it and then a government certified technician/engineer is required to be present when you energize it.

You have to look at thing in comparison. We are made to convince that we are the best, well that is hardly the case. Compare this with any western metropolitan and you will see how ancient we are in terms of energy infrastructure.

The problem really is corruption, bureaucracy and license raj in awarding contracts and purchasing equipments. And this is not just the major/big equipment. Electric wires used to supply power are so feeble, they snap if it rains a little heavily.

>>Plus the Engineers in BHEL and the like are pretty smart chaps, sure they may be slow but they are far from being daft. (Again! My experience, and mileage will vary)

This is precisely the thinking we need to change. 'Lets give it to our people' ideology. This needs to change. We need to accept that if somebody is better than us, then they are better than us. Besides most modern electric contracts these days are rightfully going to companies like ABB and Siemens(Eg: Bangalore Metro). And they have done an awesome job, far better than BHEL can ever do.

What we need currently is privatization with regulations and accountability.

Just look at how private real estate developer are transforming Bangalore. Government agencies like BDA(Bangalore development authority) will never and can never do that.

We need to bring that in every walk of life so that merit based competition thrives and corruption/nepotism is weeded out.

Funny you should mention Bangalore Metro...

From what I know about Siemens in that particular project is that they are buying most of the pieces and then assembling it. As opposed to fabricating parts and putting it together.

Anyway - I have studied for a while in the west, and I've seen both systems.

AFter reading your comment, I don't think you know where precisely they are better than us. Or where privatization works or precisely how good certain government organizations are.

The engineers who get taken, the civil guys in something like ONGC, they make pretty good and help build great infrastructure.

The engineers keeping our grids alive, I've never once heard anyone call them uninformed or unaware.

I don't think this grid failure had anything to do with "giving it to Indians" that mentality died in the workplace in 1990. Our engineers who work here actually make a good grid and good systems. Heck it hasn't collapsed in a long long while.

I think the collapse has more to do with people drawing more due to subsidies and political sops than anything else. And thats not something privatization is going to fix directly.

Matter of fact, so far Govt contracts have been the more exacting contracts from what I have come across, and the private ones except for the MNCs have been the more lax.

Further - from what I can see, the government contracts for a lot of these things are open and if you are in the country, you can bid for it. (Be you Siemens or Kirloskar) And those contracts? like the BGLR Metro order? Thats vetted and checked against by govt engineers.

The way the contracts are being set up in many places, end up favoring large firms. And AFAIK MNCs aren't paying bribes.

So we already have privatization with regulations and accountability to an extent.

You could say we need more and I won't disagree. We are moving towards that.

------------

Unsaid when discussing "privatization" is that it's tough to work in India. Competition is harsh and margins razor thin. I know that some companies would rather sell in other places than this market for better profits with less effort.

What I want to say is that you are painting a dark picture, but having more first hand knowledge at the moment, the picture is a lot more grey, and lighting up.

If you want to see how real estate developers fare on their own, you should always remember the message of gurgaon. A beautiful example of private enterprise - a great city with well developed plots. - And no common sewage system.

Thank you for this informative comment. Although I mean no offence towards the GP, Indians are prone to blame the govt./corruption etc and say that the "whole system sucks". In that light, information from someone in the industry is highly appreciated

@intended, thanks for informative post. People tend to think all govt ventures are of shabby quality. I've a few friends who are engineers at KPTCL (Karnataka Power Transmission Company Ltd). It gives me goosebumps when I hear their experience about planning and building new sub-stations, high power lines etc. Minute details that go into these things are simply amazing. All I can say is GP's assumptions about PowerGrid being archaic is not correct.

HN doesn't show comment scores to anybody except the author of the comment. So I'm breaking my rule and writing a "me too" thank you note in addition to upvoting pm90's thank you comment. Good comments!

Few things I'd like to clarify -

Order quality is high from the govt contracts, great from firms which use contractors, Most MNCs and hit/miss from other firms.

Large govt contracts are always going to favor large firms, so that was redundant. I wanted to explain that in the govt projects, the firms that do get it tend to be MNCs or larger firms and the MNCs aren't paying bribes.

There is corruption in the country, and I don't doubt things get twisted.

I'm not portraying India as having a working system. I am saying that it's not as bleak and that reforms are tightening the noose.

For example recently service taxes were changed drastically and that's going to bite into the underground economy and bring more firms into the tax net.

it's a bit complex but in essence the govt has decided that they are going to use the larger more established firms to drive smaller firms to register. And they are now going to use the big firms to essentially collect taxes.

'Just look at how private real estate developer are transforming Bangalore' I do stay in Bangalore, these real estate have most unplanned development, look at Jayanagar, Rajajinagar or Malleshwaram or RMV extension which are developed by BDA can you give me one similar example which is done by so called estate developer

Reply on news.ycombinator.com