Ask HN: Do you have "confidence"? In spite of your issues, how can you have it?

I used to be pretty shy and quiet. I'm not exactly "loud" these days perse, but I can walk into a place and strike a conversation if it's socially acceptable.

For keeping myself up, I keep in mind that even if I end up in a bad position, I'm a smart guy. I've navigated myself out of tough spots before just fine, and I can do it again. As much as I can, I hold my own self worth, and don't base it on other people's opinions of me.

For dealing with other people, something I realized was that everybody else is usually too preoccupied in themselves to think that hard about what anyone else is doing. Chances are, even if you embarrass yourself, the other person will have forgotten it within a day unless you're particularly close to them. And even if their opinion of you does shift a bit negative, are they someone whose opinion you really value?

Of course I care what my friends think, my boss, my romantic partner, family; but if one person outside of that has a problem with me, that doesn't have to affect me in any way. I just be as cool as I can with everyone and anything on their end is on them.

I don’t know whose opinions I value, because everyone I’ve ever had a connection with has left my life or abandoned me. So seemingly people eventually have a negative opinion of me.

And I have tried everything people recommend. Fitness, grooming, psychiatrists, psychologists, counsellors, eating healthy, putting myself out there.

On paper I should be confident. I’m tall, I was handsome before I put on weight, I’ve got a degree in Electrical Engineering, I’ve sold software so have had some business success, I’ve had many girlfriends, and I work incredibly hard.

But I’m so fucking lonely and in my own head. And I’m tired of it all. It never gets better

Maybe it's just that, you're so hard on yourself, you don't have space for healing. This is really a transformative period for you, take it as it is. Things will turn.

Thanks man I really appreciate your comments, I was having a bad day and feeling better

Many of the concerns you've listed stem from a lack of self-esteem. You list lots of activities that are stereotypically associated with a full, worthwhile life, but then make indications that these things aren't bringing you the satisfaction you were dreaming of. It's up to you to discover where you will find that ultimate satisfaction. Many people turn to religion. One of the pleasant effects of adversity is that it allows us to see that the sun will rise tomorrow, even if we fail today. When something bad happens to us, it is natural to feel as though it is the end of the world; but there is a constancy to certain things, and if you simply allow yourself to experience what is constant, knowing that the things that trouble you will one day be water under the bridge, you may find that these feelings go away.

On a more practical note, it is important in conversation to assume that your perspective has inherent value. People can perceive when you are trying to please them out of a desperate need for validation, and based on your self-esteem issues, it seems like this is probably what is happening here. If you can't make yourself believe your perspective has inherent value, just treat it like a game - fake it if you have to. You'll soon find that most people will validate your perspective as inherently valuable. It's important to reciprocate this attitude - people can also perceive when you are using them as a means to an end. It is important that you show a sincere interest in how other people think and feel if you want to build deeper relationships with them. The easiest way to do this is to ask opinion questions. You don't need to agree with their opinion; disagreeing with them is a great way to practice acknowledging your own perspective as inherently valuable. The important thing is simply to ask what they think of something.

If you do find yourself craving deeper relationships, you should know two things: 1) The anxiety you're experiencing ("No one asks back") does not go away even if you're in a stable relationship, because it ultimately stems from thought patterns rooted in low self-esteem and 2) if you are primarily socializing in group settings, don't try to befriend the group, befriend individuals within the group.

Ye so think I have no self esteem. That’s bang on. No matter what I do, I never feel like it grows.

Nothing brings me satisfaction anymore, I’m just doing what everyone else says works. I was happy coding my graphics project but it isolated me from the world and my ex. I love animals but you can’t make a living off that.

I constantly feel like I’m one step away from losing everything in life. I’m constantly on the verge of breaking. Everything that people take for granted is an uphill battle for me. And I don’t understand why.

My ex told me she didn’t find me attractive at several points in the relationship. She never showed me affection. She never asked about my projects or my interests. I supported us both through our first mortgage. I let her work 3 days a week when her friend died which she did for 2 years. I earnt far more than her, yet I paid for everything and split finances in proportion to our earnings. I was so fair and caring, and in the end I got dumped over the phone and had to go pickup my stuff while the rain was pissing down hard.

I really am trying with people, but I’m growing increasingly isolated day by day, no matter how much I put myself out there. I can’t even drink or do drugs to relax, because it may trigger a psychotic episode.

I just don’t know how to pull myself out, when nothing seemingly works for me. I find myself increasingly sympathising with people who can’t handle anything

Often times when we feel vulnerable we can give too much of ourselves away to other people. This can sometimes lead to feelings of dissatisfaction or resentment in a relationship. Many people will perceive easily available affection as being low-value. It can help to learn how to manage perceptions (e.g. being occasionally unavailable, making ambiguous comments that could be interpreted one way or another, etc), but the more effective method is in cultivating a sense of self-esteem and then just giving affection freely. Some people might still see this affection as low value, but if you are truly loving freely, it becomes its own reward. There are people in my life I have learned to love in spite of any perceived shortcoming, and my natural inclination is to tell them that I love them. This can lead to that affection being taken for granted, but because the mere act of giving affection is rewarding in and of itself, it isn't especially important if things don't work out.

> I just don’t know how to pull myself out, when nothing seemingly works for me. I find myself increasingly sympathising with people who can’t handle anything Try to avoid thinking of pulling yourself out of the situation you are in, and focus on simply experience it. With all its unpleasantness, it can't actually reach you.

I mean really if that’s how people are, that being affectionate towards them is seen as low value, why the fuck would I bother with people? Why are people so fucking difficult . Why do I bother?

I'm reading your comments, and I care :) 'cause we still got empathy and connection, and it's a gift. Don't believe the American self-built ideology. We are a mass of chimpanzees lost in an ocean of stars! *

Sometimes we can give people the wrong impression about ourselves, even though there isn't anything fundamentally "wrong" with us. I understand that the idea of needing to manage perceptions to be loved can feel troubling - we want to be loved unconditionally, but feel as though we can only get the love that we want by performing tricks for it like a circus animal. This is why I mentioned the importance of developing the self-esteem to love without restraint. There is a subtle difference between giving love easily out of a desire to be loved in return and giving love freely without any expectation of receiving love in return. But to give love freely you need to have a self-esteem which allows you to not take it personally when the love you give isn't returned in the exact way that you wanted.

Your situation has a somewhat paradoxical solution: It is easiest to feel comfortable with ourselves when we feel we are accepted by others, but it is easiest to be accepted by others when we already feel comfortable about ourselves. Many people in this situation end up romanticizing the idea of being rescued from their predicament by a friend or a romantic companion. This is possible, but not probable. The easiest thing is thus to focus on yourself. Imagine you woke up tomorrow and you truly had no one - no family, no friends, not even a stranger to relate your story to. You wouldn't fall over dead. The world wouldn't end. There would still be a "you" living your life. Now imagine you were destitute, crippled, and intellectually handicapped. Life would certainly be difficult, but you would still be alive.

You are looking for validation in the external world; but what is worst thing that can happen if you don't find it? I would suggest the answer to that question, at a fundamental level, is "nothing."

My take as undiagnosed ADHD in constant burnout to just self sustain.

You are NOT ALONE. Adults barely manage to stay alive, just mask better. Your parents and ex colleagues too.

Get a therapist, realise that your ADHD is actually you, get better with it, treat it as you would your dog friend. Find another job asap, doesnt matter if you like it.

Produce any kind of art, follow inspiredtowrite on Instagram. Accept a virtual hug from me and everyone in the world that barely copes.

We are not all alphas, and it's a lie that you have to.

I see you already mentioned therapy, so I'll only lightly touch on that: A large chunk of confidence comes from the subconscious knowledge that you aren't at risk of being exiled from a tribe of fellow apes. The confidence of security, rather than the confidence of ability.

With respect to uneasy social situations, sometimes I take refuge in a kind of "at least I have the virtue of honesty" approach, which starts with a willingness to say "I don't understand." Granted, that does depends on knowing I won't ever say "I don't understand, why are you sad your dog died?"

> "Adulthood isn’t an award they’ll give you for being a good child. You can waste... years, trying to get someone to give that respect to you, as though it were a sort of promotion or raise in pay. If only you do enough, if only you are good enough. No. You have to just... take it. Give it to yourself, I suppose. Say, I’m sorry you feel like that, and walk away. But that’s hard."

-- A woman recovering from a bad marriage in A Civil Campaign by Lois McMaster Bujold

I have started being completely honest in communications, mostly instead of nodding and agreeing (especially at work) I have started to say “I don’t get it” more often. I think it’s a good first step.

It’s interesting what you say about exiled from the tribe. I have done “weird” things and made weird decisions like getting rid of all social media, and using a dumb phone for a long time. Out of principle, but it isolates me further.

I dont really do stuff that others do, I’m not a “sheep” I guess but I wish I was. People always say “be yourself” and I do that I think, but it isolates me from people and peers. ADHD and arthritis at a young age, successes like selling software ventures, sacrificing personal time to study, all this has just isolated me further. I used to think this was drive, but what’s the point if you end up alone

What I mean is that there's a very old part of everyone's brain that floods them with stress-hormones if it thinks they might be exiled to be eaten by tigers, and while the system is insistent and disruptive, the good news is that it isn't too picky.

Just being a member of some regularly-meeting group can help. It doesn't require (or necessarily respond) to things like "knowing my cosmic purpose" or "being the best at X", although some people try to sate it that way.

In other words, psychological safety needs are the foundation for other forms of confidence.

No social media isolates you on the short run. But joining groups and doing things just for the pleasure will connect you deeper with other people. Let time do its thing. You are 30, go with the flow, there's so much time. Heal a bit, and when your perspective will turn, your scorned, disappointed synapses will grow back to accept new connections and life. Send me messages on gmail. I can be a connection.

The Six Pillars of Self-Esteem by Nathaniel Branden helped me a lot. I've read it 3 or 4 times.

The single most important activity for me was actively confronting or working on areas where I felt a lack of confidence. E.g. I was embarrassed by my lack of dancing skills so I took hip-hop dance classes. "Fear is the mind killer…"

Good Luck

Thanks I’ll check that out. Can reading such books really help?

In moments of difficulty I often remember to practice things I learned from that book, so yes I would say that reading such books can have tangible effect on real-world behavior.

While I'm sorry to hear about the setbacks, it sounds like you've really overcome them. Congratulations on the momentum!

I've found journaling and introspection to be helpful for building confidence. Sharing some questions below intended for you to journal through:

> But I question myself, who cares what people think? But subconsciously I clearly care very deeply what EVERYONE thinks and it’s exhausting.

I think you've hit it on the nose here!

Have you focused on this point in therapy?

What role do you think family and cultural background might play?

(Aside: I grew up in a collectivist culture and my family is quite traditional—people pleasing is the norm!)

What would it take for you to like yourself even if other people don't like you?

> I’m dumb as bricks in other areas - social situations with more than 1 person are extremely hard to navigate, I constantly have relationship issues with everyone, I find the workplace and jobs impossible to perform in even though I have innate ability in what I do.

In her book Scout Mindset, Julia Galef suggests there are two types of confidence:

1. Epistemic confidence—certainty in something, like a weather prediction

2. Social confidence—comfort with other people, and self assurance. It sounds like you might consider focusing on building social confidence.

What is your inner dialogue like? How do you talk to yourself generally? (Are you hard on yourself? Were your parents hard on you?)

Did you grow up learning that you could only feel confident after you've "earned it" or had a good reason to? (Kunal Gupta wrote a good post on this here: https://www.howto.live/post/confidence)

> When I say confidence I mean quiet confidence, confidence in my own actions and abilities and lot in life x social interactions.

I feel certain that just by defining confidence for yourself so clearly, you're going to get there sooner or later!

No I really haven’t overcome the setbacks, they have really overturned my life.

On paper I am doing all the “right” things, but inside I am a shell of a person. I’ve been in this situation before, and I’m always proactive, but I’m just a husk of a human being at this point.

Cultural background is western, family background is that I’m from a very fucked up dysfunctional family.

In terms of liking myself, I’ve never been able to answer that question. I thought having solid morals would do that, but I’ve broken my own morals several times - so that’s a no go. I thought getting fit would do it, but it became quite disordered. I thought making friends would do it, but I fundamentally can’t connect or relate to most people. My best friend is an elderly academic Chinese man, I’m a 30 something white guy.

My inner dialogue is pretty horrible. I’m extremely hard on myself and it’s only gotten worse with age. When I achieve things I say I’m proud of myself but that’s it. Yes I feel like I have to earn my confidence.

Do you think you need many connections? History is full of hermits who ate herbs and drank milk. You don't need to achieve to feel confident, just to prove to yourself you are sufficient. Your dysfunctional family is the problem that emerged. This will set your mind up for a long time. I grew with a mother that loved me with too much affection, and I grew dependent as a person. That can also be a problem, huh? How can I go outside in a world in war and stay sane.l, with all the needs for caring I still have. But then I see people like you, and I'm genuinly moved to tears, 'cause I feel you and that's all I got for today.