Sigma BF Camera
sigma-global.com
sigma-global.com
For me the deal breaker is the lack of viewfinder. However this might be designed for people who've not grown up with SLR or rangefinder cameras, but phones instead.
The ux is interesting it looks like the thumb wheel is the only real physical controls and only works on the selected item. For me thats probably ok, as I only really set the shutter speed during shooting.
I wonder what its actually like to use? I wonder how it compares to something like the AliceCamera (https://www.alice.camera/)?
However, if I was on the market for a camera, of that rough size and quality, I'd probably go for a second hand GFX100, which is around the same price as the BF. Its the only mirrorless camera that is easy to use (in shooting, the setup isn't great) and shows me what the picture looks like live. (I'm looking at you Canon RP)
Yeah, I think this is another situation where touchscreen-only phones/tables set a bad example for others to copy. I think a viewfinder is way better for outdoor shooting, but maybe people who take most shots indoors don't care?
Its what I grew up with(SLR), and having used the early digital viewfinders, I can see how hard they can suck. But modern ones are much better.
I love the idea of a smaller body focused full frame camera, though I am skeptical of how useable this camera will be in colder climates. That metal is going to be freezing cold, and those buttons looks hard to operate with gloves on.
I wonder if condensation will be a factor?
- who is this product trying to reach?
- what does it do well?
- what do it's designers know that I don't?
If you see something that strikes you as weird, there's a reason for it. You're looking at a highly designed product, it's all intentional, try to be curious.
Dropping the physical controls doesn't really save a ton of money. They went for a unibody chassis, which itself is a bit of an expensive way to make a production component (see their very nice staged dry-run toolpath simulation on a 5-axis CNC machine).
I do think they wanted something extremely compact for what it is (hence no viewfinder), without a bunch of stuff sticking off of it. Something that people who design EDC objects think about - will this snag on things?
By that reasoning, you might say there's no such thing as bad art. In most cases, things are designed with the best of intentions and may or may not be successful for their audience.
But a standalone ILC is already a small addressable market so the choices do matter, especially for a company of Sigma's size.
One way art can be bad is by refusing (or being unable to) make choices. Whether that's from lack of perception, skill, or interest. Of course you can subvert this by refusing to make choices, but that in itself is its own choice - it has intent.
I think the HN crowd often make an assumption that they have all the information necessary to judge something. It doesn't have an SD card slot! Is it possible that Sigma saw how their customers use these cameras and figured that they could significantly simplify the enclosure design and packaging by omitting an SD card facility? I don't know! But I think that this is interesting, and makes me think of the 20-somethings I see toting MLCs in the city, for whom I get the sense that a camera is a lifestyle component, not a professional one. Maybe they don't need to shoot >200GB a day? What's it like to have technology as a fashion statement? Being utility-minded engineer, what am I missing about people's relationships to objects?
In UX there is a concept of 'don't make me think' - the camera corollary is 'don't make me carry'.
What is it the other half of the time? I've been thinking of picking up a GRIII for my trip to Japan this summer, but I'm open to other ideas.
I personally almost always find phone photos to be woefully inadequate for even light editing, mostly because they turn into a blurry mess as soon as you crop even a little bit or want to print/look on a large screen.
I recently found a pic from behind-the-scenes of an old favorite movie of mine. It was exactly the kind of photo I wanted, but woefully small. With minimal effort and Real-ESRGAN (and perhaps a touch of artificial film grain), I blew it up to a very crisp B&W poster I framed. I'm still looking for errors in it.
I'm really looking for something fairly portable specifically for touristy street photography stuff. Perhaps it's time to pick up an X100VI...
OT: for your old Mac mini with the non-selectable Bluetooth “add” button, maybe try Mouse Keys.
I've definitely carried "real" cameras much less in the ~2 decades since I've gotten a smartphone than the 2 decades prior. I still use a "real" camera when I'm aiming for the best results, but it doesn't make up the majority of my photos anymore, mainly because it is an extra hassle to have something else to carry.
Are there any worthwhile pocketable cameras these days? Seems like those CoolPix and similar cameras that were ubiquitous 20 years ago are a rare sight these days, and if people own an actual separate camera it's going to be something beefy. Has anyone applied the advances in computational photography from smartphones to a standalone camera with a somewhat larger sensor and lens, but still smaller than the Sigma BF and competitors?
I sold an X100V b/c it was too big for everyday carry and in no way sharp enough.
I have an old Lumix GF1 that fits in my palm and hangs on a spider clip from my belt or the waist of jeans: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/762513-REG/SPIDER_HOL...
Some of the very best photos of my family and travels were shot on that. Despite me thinking it was old and needed replacing.
not mine but a good example: https://www.flickr.com/photos/60555175@N07/6093043097
Sony and “I don’t want to have edit RAW” don’t mix. Compactness and straight to Insta is more of a Fuji workflow.
In terms of specs it doesn't look very impressive. Doubt it holds up compared to mainstream brands at that price point. The lack of physical buttons probably makes it less appealing to professionals. Touch controls are just not the same for quick actions based on muscle memory. I don't get the color modes. It advertises as "no fluff" but includes all these presets, which anyone halfway interested in editing will likely avoid in leiu of their own styles. In fact if you look at all the software features and modes, it's quite standard, not really minimal at all. You're limited to Sigma lenses. Never used a Sigma lens so I can't comment on quality. But I don't know why you would want to limit yourself, again particularly given the price point.
Overall this looks like an aesthetic sell rather than a good photography product. It's for people who want to appear cool with a sleek-looking camera that gives you the popular image "looks" out of the box. And who are willing to accept an inflated price tag for it.
Looking forward to the BF.
https://petapixel.com/2024/06/26/switchlens-turns-your-phone...
Those people won't have issues paying that amount.
GR III = ultra-compact, fixed focal length, $1000, poor autofocus
Sigma BF = compact, interchangeable lens, $2000 + lenses, ??? autofocus
Leica Q3 = compact, fixed focal length, $6000, reliable autofocus
These cameras are loved by street photographers, casual landscape photographers, documentary / environmental portrait photographers, and there's a significant Japanese lifestyle photography scene ... I often wonder if Sigma has this market in mind, which is not so visible if you're not in Japan or don't know where to look on Instagram (dig into the #sigmafp / #sigmafpl tag and look for washed out / blue-tinted photos of flowers/nature, for instance).
The major downside is no stabilization, which will severely limit the shooting envelope compared to these other cameras. I shot with a Sigma FP for awhile and the combination of poor autofocus, no stabilization, no viewfinder, and it still being heavy compared to, say, a Fujifilm camera, made for a very limiting experience. This will, however, be a user-experience upgrade for people who are happy with FP (which, honestly, I still miss sometimes).
Maybe kinda? As a Leica owner myself, honestly I like my traditional controls and wouldn't trade my camera for the Sigma BF.
This feels more like the Tesla Roadster, which I guess some would say is meant to appeal to sports car fans, but I think honestly tries to create a new market. The old-school sports car guys who enjoy revving an engine and shifting gears aren't really the market for a Tesla Roader, it's a new generation of people who are enthusiastic about electric cars.
I think this is trying to do something similar - creating a new market for well-off Gen Zers whose parents didn't even expose them to traditional cameras growing up, just smartphones. People for whom those cryptic old control knobs hold no appeal. "Here's a powerful camera with a much better sensor and lens than your phone, but you don't need to be a camera nerd" is more what I imagine the pitch to be.
No-one who shoots M-mount at this point is giving up their rangefinder for an LCD-only camera with no viewfinder.
That was painful.
No way.
They also offer two other sensor LEGOs: one that looks like a previous/heaper gen (fp) and other with high-res 60+ MP sensor ("fp L").
I like the idea.
None of that can be added. It's not an fp. It doesn't even have a hotshot and there's no EVF nor 'everything else' as add-on.
Only changeable things are L-mount lens and battery
except an SD card
Secondly, and more importantly, the lifespan of your camera is now the lifespan of the internal storage. That seems very unappealing.
If you can backup from the camera to SSD, that's a much much much more tempting option anyways. Anyone shooting video is already used to having a Samsung T7 SSD strapped somewhere to their rig. SD is handy as heck & so good to have but vastly fantastically slower & not as reliable.
the slab design I wonder, I made my own camera bodies (for RPi) and the straight edges do hurt your hand
The size reminds me of the hype I felt with Sony Alpha Nex-5n when that was new (tiny body and big lens)
The body reminds me of Teenage Engineering
edit: oh yeah Sigma FP that was another tiny body camera