Our Epidemic of Loneliness and Isolation [pdf] (2023) | Hacker News Reader

Our Epidemic of Loneliness and Isolation [pdf] (2023)

hhs.gov

41 pointssturza19 comments

I've spent the last year or so immersing myself in the improv scene of a major city and I am convinced that in 50 years time people will look at a weekly improv session as being essential to your mental health in the same way going to the gym or participating in an activity is essential to your physical health. One person I met who is training to be a psychologist is even questioning whether traditional therapy is the best strategy for a lot of disorders because the results they are seeing people getting from improv are so astounding. It brings people of all age brackets together in a way I have never seen any other activity do before - it is a true community builder. I strongly urge anyone suffering from loneliness, depression or anxiety to seek out their nearest school and give it a go or if there's nothing nearby then seeing if you can take a couple of weeks out to do a summer intensive in a big city.

It can be anything, really. Craft workshops, choirs, charity volunteering (and even things that don't begin with c!) - whatever gets you out interacting with people in your community feeds your social interaction needs and helps build local networks. I've had a good time at the local bouldering gym - though it's ostensibly an athletic pursuit, it's very accessible and a very social atmosphere, since half the people there are waiting for their turn to climb the wall.

I struggle to define what community is. Some years ago, I went to Las Vegas to watch some performances, and to this day, I think Las Vegas is the most social and most lonely place I've ever been. There's people everywhere and no one is interacting in any meaningful way.

My belief is that to make friends and build connections, one of the only ways is to solve problems or face adversity together. Adversity meaning: "How do I do this bouldering route? It's so tricky.", etc. I see people pointing at social media, but I don't think this is the issue. I think the issue is that life is boring; most problems are solved. There's nothing to talk about. Why go learn guitar when AI can make a song for you?

>I see people pointing at social media, but I don't think this is the issue. I think the issue is that life is boring; most problems are solved. There's nothing to talk about. Why go learn guitar when AI can make a song for you?

It's not that life is boring. It's that life is too convenient, to the point that it's easy for the convenience to crowd out the meaningful stuff.

Why learn guitar when a machine can make music for you? Because learning an instrument is fun and fulfilling. It's not convenient (your fingers will hurt and barre chords will frustrate you), but it's deeply satisfying in a way that you won't get in an AI generator. And that satisfaction allows you to connect with other peole who prioritize that very human value over "efficiency" or "problem solving."

Cook instead of ordering Doordash. Talk to people over drinks instead of electronically. Walk somewhere instead of taking a car. It's hard to be bored if you allow yourself to slow down and enjoy life.

> one of the only ways is to solve problems or face adversity together

This is why Burning Man is such an effective community-generator, which in turn is part of the reason people tend to get culty about it. Throw yourself into a week of harsh, primitive conditions with a group of people working together to survive, thrive, and build something you can share with others, and it's easy to go home feeling like you are surrounded by friends - part of something greater than yourself.

> I think the issue is that life is boring; most problems are solved. There's nothing to talk about. Why go learn guitar when AI can make a song for you?

Why learn piano 200 years ago? We would’ve been forgettable even back then.

Life and the mundane is interesting, most people can be loved in some platonic friendly sense. Doing so is an active skill society seems to have forgotten.

I was in a large extrovert group recently, talking to a new person over a drink… we got to talking about their grad school research, which didn’t pan out and which they’d largely moved on from in work… just 5-10 minutes on that and they were so excited and connected because “no one is ever interested”. Their boisterous group was just that, jokey chatty nothing, all noise no signal.

Another friend, just yesterday, we spent 20 minutes talking about ice cream over ice cream after 2hrs hanging out 1:1.

If someone doesn’t have something to talk about, they are either surrounded by bad friends, have some self-work to do, or they are a corpse.

But this is what we wanted? It drives business to have people unhappy and shopping? It allows for the algos to divide and conquer. Why do we pretend this is not intentional? This is the expected outcome, this is wanted and not random walked towards. Divide and conquer, eat the society that brought you into existence, fade away, as societies unaffected by mind hacks take its place..

> But this is what we wanted?

Define "we".

I mean, you are right, but it's not the individual choice of the majority of people.

The we is capitalism I suppose. We voted for this, we chose this, we continue to choose it. Kind of like walking blindly into this unfortunate predicament a lot of people find themsevles in. Yeah, it's not necessarily a single action any single individual made, but the collective direction we as a society went. We're frogs boiling ourselves literally and figuratively; question is are we going to jump out or do nothing.

'We' being techno-utopian, libertarian startup types I guess. Which isn't that unfair on this site.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of."

Edward Bernays, Propaganda (1928)

> But this is what we wanted? [...] Why do we pretend this is not intentional?

I don't think in 2005 anyone expected a global, free communications network, video calling and a camera in every pocket to lead to an "epidemic of loneliness" - quite the opposite in fact.

Facebook: "Facebook's mission is to give people the power to build community and bring the world closer together." [1]

Youtube: "Our mission is to give everyone a voice and show them the world. We believe that everyone deserves to have a voice, and that the world is a better place when we listen, share and build community through our stories." [2]

Reddit: "focused on our north star of bringing community and belonging to everyone in the world" [3]

Tiktok: "Our mission is to inspire creativity and bring joy." [4]

Apple: "We believe that business, at its best, serves the public good, empowers people around the world, and binds us together as never before." [5]

Instagram: "Where everyday moments bring friends together" [6]

Snapchat: "empowers people to express themselves, live in the moment, learn about the world, and have fun together. It's the easiest and fastest way to communicate the full range of human emotions with your friends" [7]

Discord: "Discord is about giving people the power to create space to find belonging in their lives. We want to make it easier for you to talk regularly with the people you care about. We want you to build genuine relationships with your friends and communities close to home or around the world." [8]

[1] https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1655178611435493.1... [2] https://about.youtube/ [3] https://redditinc.com/blog/sharing-our-company-values [4] https://www.tiktok.com/about?lang=en [5] https://investor.apple.com/our_values/default.aspx [6] https://about.instagram.com/about-us [7] https://investor.snap.com/about-snap/default.aspx [8] https://discord.com/company

Is there any reason to see corporate statements as a true expressions of what their actual goals are?

And even when they are aspirational goals, that they will actually work toward that?

They kinda do achieve the goals, at a certain level.

Making video calls to loved ones? Sharing photos with family, without hitting some 2MB size limit on e-mails? There are lots of options these days.

If I like quilting and I want to connect with other quilters around the world? Facebook and Reddit have me covered.

Meeting up with friends I already know? Whatsapp will do a solid job.

A modern version of IRC, for ephemeral informal chat, organised around subject areas? Discord has just the thing.

These clearly are attempts at connecting people. Just we've got an "Epidemic of Loneliness and Isolation" in spite of them, or as a side-effect of them, for whatever reason.

I really like this surgeon general. Hope he doesn't get axed.

He is also taking a stance on alcohol in relation to hormonally driven tumor development.

Report is from 2023. He left the office Jan 20, last month.

Of course he got axed.

The new nominee is notable for being antivax on Fox News and killing her dad in a accident with an unsecured gun.

"Our" epidemic?

I hate these phrasings "Our", "We"... It almost never applies to me (which is a requirement to create a We), and it certainly doesn't in this case.

I get cranky if I have to spend too much time around other people.

Being happily alone is one of my greatest joys.

Of course, I didn't take ritlin from age 5 either, so maybe that helps.

Not sure what the author is talking about...

> Consider the opportunities and challenges posed by flexible work hours and arrangements (including remote, hybrid, and in-person work), which may impact workers’ abilities to connect with others both within and outside of work.

Yuck. I don't want a RTO mandate based on the paternalistic mindset that it's good for me because I'll make more friends. I have plenty of friends, and even if I didn't, it's simply not their place to try and "help". Disgusting.

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