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Comment by llm_trw | Hacker News Reader

Try opening a business in Germany to find out why.

I did, it was super easy.

How long did it take you from start to finish?

In Australia, Canada and the US I can open a company in about 30 minutes from picking the name to opening a bank account I can get money into.

In Germany the last time I tried it was about 7 weeks.

Well, yes – you can't typically open a business in 30 minutes here but the process is not exactly complex either. If you cant' figure out the administrative part of opening a company, maybe you shouldn't. It also keeps baffling me how that is of any significance. Are people afraid that their "paradigm shifting industry disrupting" idea will lose validity over the the next week? If so, maybe the idea was bollocks to begin with?

That you (and apparently the German bureaucracy) think people who can start a business and people who can tick administrative boxes are the same type of person explains German economic performance in the last 5 years.

It sounds strange but I believe businesses should bill the government for all work at their regular rates. If the assignment requires expertise that needs to be hired those rates should apply. Set some % fee for urgent work.

The bureaucracy of opening the business is a proxy for the bureaucracy that the business will endure during this lifetime. Admittedly, opening in 30 minutes is the result of politicians gaming the KPI, no one needs to open a company in 30 minutes. But waiting for 7 weeks is also generally understood to be on the other side of the spectrum, and not really reasonable either.

And that the "easy" part (as we know that it could be done as quickly as in 30 minutes) takes forever does not speak well of the UX of managing a business on that country, because e.g. closing a business, which is by nature more complicated, could end up being a hellish ordeal.

Depends on the region and the form of the company. e. K. has next to no protections but you can start at lunchtime to do commercial activities, a seperate bank account is not required, an GmbH takes quite long and needs a lot of money prepared for the company, but if it goes broke you are safe.

Depends what you want to achieve. If you just want to pick a name and open a bank account you can do that, too. You will run as a partnership with personal liability in that case.

If you want to found a limited liability company (i.e. GmbH) you also can start with picking a name and opening a bank. Add "i.G." to your company's name (i.e. GmbH i.G.) and start doing business.

Both approaches require you to register your business somewhere down the line, foremost for tax reasons. And yes, this can take quite some time, I had one occasion where we waited for 16 weeks after filing, but did business all the time. Note that some services are unavailable to you as long as your company is not formally registered, e.g. insurance.

If you are in a real hurry and need a running limited liability company, just buy one. Better tax advisors usually have a few "empty" GmbH in their files they sell you for the price of capital stock plus some handling fees. This gives you all required IDs immediately and you just have to transfer the bank account and, if you want to, change the name. Depending on the availability of a notary, this can be done in a few hours but usually takes a few days. One additional advantage of buying a shell is that you get history, which makes a lot of things easier.

There are also the capital requirements. I think that for a GmbH (the standard limited liability company) the requirement is EUR25,000. Here in the UK, where you can also setup a limited company online in 30 minutes (though not the bank account), and there is no minimum capital requirement though there must obviously be capital so usually the minimum is taken as £1. Cost of incorporating and running a company as also very low, with little paperwork.

IMHO, the British approach is more pragmatic: Why would you not make it as simple as possible to incorporate and run a company?

Uhm, risk? If you dont have 25 to start a company, then don't do a GmbH and you're good.

Why does the government care? People start companies for many reasons and capital amount is a matter for them. There are many small businesses that do not require 25k to start.

Ultimately the state should make it as cheap and straightforward as possible, get out of the way basically, and let people get on with it. It's difficult to find a reason to do differently

Tool me about 20 minutes

It most certainly is not easy, especially compared to other countries.

We live in a society

It takes months and you’re required to go to a notary at least twice and you have to put down 12500/25000EUR.

This is absolute nonsense. In the UK you can open a limited company with 12GBP in a matter of days. Oh and it’s completely online, something which Germany will never have in the foreseeable future.

Not to mention in Germany the quarterly/or even monthly tax accountant fees that could bleed into a couple thousand easily in the first year of operation.

I'd say in Germany for starting a new GmbH you'd need at least 4-5k set on the side for lawyer/notary/accountant fees, this can be deducted from the 12.5k/25k bank account but it's a pain in the ... for the average startup.

BS, there are companies that do the notary thing for you online.

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