Immune markers of post COVID vaccination syndrome indicate future research | Hacker News Reader

Immune markers of post COVID vaccination syndrome indicate future research

news.yale.edu

30 pointscempaka24 comments

> From participants’ blood samples, the researchers looked for immune features that were different between the two groups. They found several differences in immune cell populations; those with PVS had lower levels of effector CD4+ T cells and higher levels of TNF-alpha+ CD8 T cells — both are types of white blood cells — among other differences.

TNF is one of the suspected accomplices in a lot of autoimmune conditions, and the target of a class of drugs called TNF inhibitors. (Not everyone responds to them equally well, so TNF might not play an equal role in all patients; other people respond better to drugs that target various interleukins or integrins). These aren't the cheapest drugs ever, so it would be hard to experiment with off-label use, but if TNF plays a role in long COVID/immunization reactions, I'd be very curious whether TNF inhibitors could help.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TNF_inhibitor

“exercise intolerance, excessive fatigue, brain fog, insomnia, and dizziness”

Seems like a lot of overlap with with “Long COVID” etc https://www.cdc.gov/covid/long-term-effects/long-covid-signs...

Would be interesting if the vaccine was simply excessively powerful in doing its job rather than a more direct issue. Like thanks for saving millions of lives, but did you have to be so loud?

Like "Long COVID", "post covid vaccine syndrome" is probably psychosomatic.

> Like "Long COVID", "post covid vaccine syndrome" is probably psychosomatic.

Evidence?

Lots of research on Long COVID points this way

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9825049/

Not to say it isn't real. It is. But just like back pain or headaches there's a good chance it's mostly explained by psychology.

A doctor dismissing something they don’t know the cause of as psychological is common, but that doesn’t mean the diagnosis is correct.

Many things used to be thought of as psychological before we found the underlying physical causes. It’s just as meaningless an explanation as “God did it.”

A collection of papers with citations and data isn't "a doctor dismissing something they don't know"

Those examples I referred to where the generally accepted practice not just individual opinions. IE many doctors/researchers all dismissed the same thing.

There's a whole article there talking about measurable immune system changes from post-vaccine syndrome... How do you explain those away? Psychosomatic changes to White blood cell counts?

> 42 LISTEN participants who reported symptoms of PVS and 22 individuals who did not report any PVS symptoms

How are they psychosomatically conjuring spike proteins into their bloodstream?

With p-values

> Typically spike protein can be detected for a few days after vaccination, but some participants with PVS had detectable levels more than 700 days after their last vaccination.

Something like this; cells with vaccine RNA are producing spike protein (at least) but are spared by the immune system, possibly for good reasons (such as being part of critical organs or tissue).

These cells will eventually recycle, which is why the symptoms dissipate over years.

The advertised mechanism of action was that once the mRNA itself had dissipated, the cells would no longer create spike proteins. The idea wasn't that the shots would cause some of your own healthy cells to become targets of your immune system.

When we don't understand how the spike protein is still being created in the first place, I don't think we could say with any confidence that it will stop once cells are cycled out.

>When we don't understand how the spike protein is still being created in the first place

One possibility is due to reverse transcription of the spike production into the human DNA, as demonstrated in vitro by https://www.mdpi.com/1467-3045/44/3/73

My understanding was rather that the immune system removes cells with vaccine mRNA, which causes the various advertised negative side-effects. When the cells are removed, spike protein production stops.

Another day, another pile of COVID skeptic FUD and health conspiracy/influencer posts on HN.

Ah, yes, that noted bastion of health disinformation and conspiracy theories, Yale.

I guess it isn’t technically wrong to refer to the linked researcher as an influencer, as her 336 publications have been cited 43,649 times.

Apparently it's now downvote-worthy to simplify recapitulate claims that were made in bog standard "here's how the mRNA vaccines work!" videos in 2021.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com