WhatsApp, Signal Sign letter against UK privacy bill, say they will not comply (2023) | Hacker News Reader

WhatsApp, Signal Sign letter against UK privacy bill, say they will not comply (2023)

cnet.com

77 pointstoss118 comments

Thank you, Signal. This is why I happily donate to you every year.

Having a company say they will not comply really makes the UK look weak and outdated. But it is also embarrassing for Apple, who is ready to comply.

Apple only partially complied. They removed Advanced Data Protection for new UK users with plans to subsequently remove it for existing UK users, but the relevant order purports to oblige Apple to remove it worldwide and not just in the UK.

Also, the submitted article is from April 2023. Not sure why it’s being posted today, except maybe to compare against Apple’s recent action, but then the title should have a (2023).

How much does Apple make in the UK? Removing ADP for users worldwide could badly damage brand Apple

Removing ADP for customers in the UK should damage Apple's brand worldwide. Why should you trust that Apple won't remove ADP for others in the future?

I'm trying to be charitable but I really don't understand your line of reasoning. To me it seems like their hand is being forced by the UK Government. They don't want to introduce a backdoor for global users by complying so they are simply disabling the feature for users in the UK. If the feature does not exist then there is no need to comply. That seems... reasonable?

The blame squarely lies with the government in the UK and that is correctly where it seems like most of the anger is being directed.

The UK government is not a dictatorship. Bad policies like this should be pushed back against by both corporations and individuals or things will get worse. Easier said than done, I know, but Apple instantly rolling over is not a good sign for a company supposedly big on privacy.

It is the nature of the UK Parliamentary system, that when the party in power has a large majority, it is essentially an elective dictatorship. Then 5 years later we may get a different dictator.

This is a well known issue with the system. There are few checks and balances, it rather depends upon honourable behaviour by the participants.

That honourable behaviour ceased to be practiced from around 2000 onwards, and so things have been deteriorating.

If most of Apple's regular/repeat/fan users cared about such things and gave importance to other things like user hostile "everything" Apple does (access to support, repair, warranty, escalation.. the list is too fucking long!), Apple might have been nowhere near the behemoth it is today. The typical Apple user is the Apple fan and they will buy Apple, upgrade every year or every other year, stand in line, defend Apple no matter what and that is what Apple cares about.

Apple's target audience is not the crowd that is still pining for the return of the 4.x inch phone. Apple's target audience (few but this gives an idea) lives on those Reddit subs and discussions.apple.com where if someone asks a way to affix the upper cover of an AirPod case (which needs 1-2 mins and a glue; NOTHING else), multiple most upvoted comments are "but why don't you go to Apple support and replace/buy a new case". Oh and by the way Apple also officially says "fuck you, buy another one - we don't fucking fix such things" out of warranty and in warranty as well that comes as physical and cosmetic damage. That's just an example.

So no, this is not doing jackshit to Apple's reputation i.e sales.

I don't agree with Apple's decision but it's a completely different situation. Apple has a lot more to lose compared to some messaging apps.

well its easier for app developer to refuse since UK citizen could easily just use vpn if government decide to block their service but if its happen to Apple, it would lose billions of dollars money

> But it is also embarrassing for Apple, who is ready to comply.

Apple ? You mean that company that was ready to upload your pictures "in the cloud" to scan them for CSAM ?

I guess nobody reads EULAs or TOS' anymore.

Yet they'll both comply to the American Cloud Act

How is this behavior called again? ;)

> How is this behavior called again? ;)

As Microsoft (and others) put it: Your privacy is very important for us.

The Cloud Act is basically just the Stored Communications Act but for foreign countries, isn't it? Since Signal doesn't have (practically) any user data to hand over to begin with, I don't really see why this matters. Am I missing something?

(2023)

Actual letter: https://blog.whatsapp.com/an-open-letter

Maybe it's time for people to host small encrypted messaging servers at home

WhatsApp isn't more a end-to-end-to-adds "encryption" ?

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