Mexico issues legal threat to Google
thecomeback.com
thecomeback.com
“Any reference to the ‘Gulf of America’ initiative on your Google Maps platform must be exclusively limited to the marine area under US jurisdiction,” the letter read. “Any extension beyond that zone exceeds the authority of any national government or private entity..."
So the issue is not the renaming per se, but that waters previously known collectively among all countries bordering it as the Gulf of Mexico have been wholly renamed.
The argument seems sound: America has no authority over waters beyond its territories, and its territories end some miles off the US coast. Beyond that border it is only logical for a company to refer to a body of water by the name more commonly accepted internationally.
You somehow got it entirely backwards. The Trump Administration decided it was a good idea to rebrand random geographical areas with nationalistic names and force that change upon the world. The world woke up to see this "freedom fries" nonsense forced upon them through the likes of Google Maps. In the very least, Google must not change the experience for anyone else accessing their service outside of the US.
Ask yourself this: why would anyone in the world be subjected to these whimsical nationalistic banana republic renaming stunts?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Google_LLC_(2...
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Google_LLC_(2...
Wikipedia says that's "an ongoing federal antitrust case brought by the United States Department of Justice (DOJ) against Google LLC on January 24, 2023 [that] accuses Google of illegally monopolizing the advertising technology (adtech) market in violation of sections 1 and 2 of the Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890." How does this answer your parent's question?
Or, more realistically, Trump will still screw them over anyway, scorpion & frog style.
Large companies are bending over backwards to curry favor with Trump (see Meta settling and paying millions on a case they were winning and almost certainly would win).
What's different here is an objecting nation (Mexico) is interfering with names and expression that are used in another country, namely the US.
You think Gulf of Mexico is a better name. You're entitled to you opinion, particularly if you live in the US. But what if you lived in Mexico and the US government sued you for using your preferred name in Mexico? And you think that I have it backwards?
That's perfectly fine. If the Trump Administration wants to force-feed Gulf of America onto the US, let that show up within the US.
Don't force that nonsense onto anyone else though. Let's contan that banana republic nonsense within the borders of banana republics.
Maybe because everyone in the world is subjected to these whimsical nationalistic banana republic renaming stunts.
How do you think the names of geographical areas came about in the first place? Did everyone in the world get a vote on the official Geographical Naming Commission? Oh wait. What should we call this official commission? What language should be the official language for the naming commission?
The overblown outrage over this issue is absolutely silly.
I'm fairly certain anyone can call it whatever they want.
If Mexico has a law that it needs to be named the golfo de Mexico then display that to requests coming from Mexico. Otherwise how can Mexico force Americans to call anything anything?
If that's an issue, then pass a law in Mexico saying the name needs to be presented a certain way.
Bing maps in a browser says “Gulf of America”.
isn't cartography and GIS crowdsourced to some degree? Why aren't y'all using OSM?
"Mexico" is not some homogeneous monolith of amorphous identity and yes the history of "New Mexico" and Mexican citizens/nationals residing in the E.E.U.U. and Indigenous groups such as the Tohono O'Odham or Yaquis' governance and voices count. To varying degrees and some are sovereign tribes or communities; some self-identify in ways that may surprise us
There's a feature in Maricopa County that is popular for hiking and nature, and now we carefully refer to the hill as "Piestewa Peak" to honor a fallen warrior who served her/my/our country to defend liberty, and I guess the freedom to rename stuff for posterity or prestige.
How much outrage have you seen over those names?
That said, those disputed territories are a bit of a hot button issue in the territories in question, just like this is a hot button issue for mexico.
Names matter.
Names matter to egotistical politicians who want to secure an easy "win" to demonstrate their capability to their stakeholders.
Did Argentina invade the Falklands, or liberate Malvinas?
Why is part of the South China Sea now called the West Phillipine Sea but only in the Phillipines?
Why is the Republic of Macedonia now North Macedonia?
I don't have a final answer for all situations, but certainly if you look at those things on the map right now they read one name, then the other in parentheses. The "Gulf of America" has no such parenthetical. That seems like an acceptable compromise that Google has already adopted in other disputes. I suspect it will rile the current administration, however, if they do so here, and so they have not.
edit: oh, I find Google has already addressed this, and it is only in the US that it is just gulf of america:
https://blog.google/products/maps/united-states-geographic-n...
ah well.
While i hate this gulf of america bullshit, i'm not sure i agree this argument is so sound. I don't think there is any rule of international law requiring countries to refer to other country's territory by the preferred name of the state that has soverignty over that territory. Maybe if you take it as an implicit threat of annexation or claim of soverignty, that would be a violation of the prohibition of acquiring territory by force, but that seems a bit of a stretch at the present juncture. [Ianal].
Basically i think there is a big difference between saying someone is acting illogically and someone is acting illegally.
The name’s the same as it was.
Well at least I've been learning How To Train [My] Dragon... so we got this!
The solution where we cut it in half on the map and give it two names seems silly, since it is a single geographic feature. `Gulf of Mexico (Gulf of America)` (and the reverse when connecting from the US) seems like a reasonable middle-ground. It doesn't seem that Google Maps generally indicates who controls which ocean territory.
It's the Gulf of Mexico. Period.
There are myriad authorities that maintain the official database of geographic names for use within their jurisdiction. Conflicts between these various databases are common. No one has the authority, either in theory or practice, to determine what a "correct" map looks like. To accommodate this, all mapping companies maintain a huge number of deltas for each authority.
There isn't One True Map. It is really a vast number of separate maps maintained in parallel, one for each jurisdiction that claims the authority to dictate what a map should look like. To the extent possible, companies try to minimize the number of parallel maps they must maintain. Geographic boundaries, even uncontested ones, give a hint of why this is necessary. An international border is commonly shared by several administrative jurisdictions (national and then subdivisions of each nation). If one of those several jurisdictions does a high-precision survey that moves some inconsequential line a few centimeters, what gives them the authority to edit that border for every other jurisdiction that shares it? Managing these inconsistencies is one of the basic challenges of making quasi-authoritative maps.
Mexico does not have an argument here. Everyone in every country uses an opinionated map that reflects a self-interested narrative that therefore is in conflict with maps used elsewhere. This isn't a surprise or shocking, things have always worked this way. The US, like Mexico, absolutely has the authority to make any map they want. No one is required to use either of those maps and in fact many countries reject both the American and Mexican versions of the map.
If there's no "One True Map" as you say, why wouldn't you use the "name more commonly accepted internationally"?
Go and take over the world!
How do you determine this?
Does each country get one vote? One vote per citizen? Who's responsible for making that determination?
Literally every media outlet in existence pulls news down the wire from AP and Reuters before they apply their shitty editorial stance to it.
Bumfuck News Arizona does not have the scoop on Trump handing Ukraine over to Putin straight from Odessa. But a bunch of mouth breathers in Texas will think he stood his ground there.
AP departed from journalistic neutrality long ago.[1] They actually are among the worst journalistic offenders because of poor standards compounded by less visibility on their pervasive left-leaning bias.
unyttigfjelltol departed from journalistic neutrality long ago. They actually are among the worst journalistic offenders because of hyperbolic overstatement and sleight of hand misuse of references that "support" their stance.
The relevant quote from [1] is milquetoast: These media sources have a slight to moderate liberal bias. They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by appeals to emotion or stereotypes) to favor liberal causes. These sources are generally trustworthy for information but may require further investigation.
AP is rated HIGH in factual content with a bias one stop to the left of "LEAST BIASED".Of all the biases out there this is not particularly troubling particularly as most (I would hope) are aware of it.
"The AP has taken flak for a shift toward subjectivity in its news reporting, not just from media critics, but from small-town communities like the one in Lufkin, Texas. Readers of the Lufkin Daily News decried a July 4 AP story about Trump’s Mt. Rushmore speech for exhibiting bias, prompting an apology from the local paper’s editor. " [1]
"Honest public discourse depends on calling things by their right names. But much like the current trend at many mainstream publications and broadcast outlets, where journalists think their job is now to fight Trump and conservatives rather than just report the facts and let the people decide, the AP Stylebook has become an eager recruit for left-wing Democratic activism and the anti-Trump “resistance.”"[2]
"The Associated Press has morphed into a Berkeley-style left-wing rag. The key difference is that The Associated Press plays to a global audience of millions."[3]
[1] https://www.allsides.com/blog/transparency-troubles-how-asso...
[2] https://nypost.com/2020/10/22/the-associated-press-progressi...
[3] https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/4519187-who-radicalized...
Your comeback is that Allsides has stated that "The AP Sometimes Mixes Subjective Analysis Into News Articles".
Correct .. sometimes.
That's a far position from "worst journalistic offenders because of poor standards compounded by less visibility on their pervasive left-leaning bias" which is unquestionably hyperbolic rhetoric and intuitively obvious as such to the meanest intellect.
Your ball. I'm off, have fun.
( In good faith and with best intentions do look up "ad hominem" .. I attacked the content and framing of your comment and mocked it, I did not and have yet to attack your person by, say, suggesting you're a cocaine user or somehow otherwise of low character )
I've been infuriated over and over by AP presenting nonsense as the news, and perhaps I hold them to a higher standard based on they way they position themselves. More than once I've had the reaction that their high-profile reporting was flagrantly wrong. I've never had that reaction to a NYP article, and I seek out the NYP when reports in other outlets are vague or insufficient.
In the end, the loss will be on the AP and others who decide to go this path, and most importantly to their readers.
The only press allowed will be the one that acquiesces to the new administration and does not antagonize it. And this will be a major loss for press in general.
I wish AP would not be so stubborn o unconsequential issues such as the Gulf of America. No one really cares, its a political stunt and nothing more.
> The only press allowed will be the one that acquiesces to the new administration and does not antagonize it. And this will be a major loss for press in general.
> I wish AP would not be so stubborn o unconsequential issues such as the Gulf of America. No one really cares, its a political stunt and nothing more.
They were punished for not toeing the line. You think they should have toed the line so they can keep playing the game. Like I said, everyone knows backing down when they try to force you to carry a narrative is how you prevent erosion of free press. I guess you would rather they wait for them to declare the official policy is the earth is flat and defect after that? That probably isn't consequential enough either. I have to wonder where you draw the line.
It's not okay to deplatform the AP over this, period.
AP could write something like "... in the Gulf of America (worldwide known as the Gulf of Mexico)..." and be done with it. I am not defending what the WH is doing, I just feel it is silly to be stuck up on something this small. In politics you need to play politics, logic and common sense don't have a place.
Using the style guide as a reason to exclude some press on other hand is not a political stunt at all.
It is mechanism to influence and control around the messaging of executive actions in the mainstream media[1]
Organizations not complying would be excluded under another pretext sooner or later.
AP is a non-profit and can take this stance, most other news media are for-profit and their first fiduciary responsibility is to their shareholders not their subscribers or employees, journalistic and ethical standards.
That means none of them can afford to be excluded from the most happening news stories and access to the more valuable (I.e. clicks) personality in the world of this decade .
[1] this is part of job of any PR department(public and private) and not a critique The government PR wing (press secretary, communications director etc) traditionally also needed to be transparent, accessible , unbiased and accountable.
It seems US government no longer sees this as a core function of press relations
Now is that rugged male individualism, a DIY spirit, or something else?
Passersby and strangers have the right of free speech, and what incentives would compel a stranger to give accurate directions the way the motorist wants to go? What also would inform the conversation with a stranger so that there is understanding and trust, assuming that the stranger doesn't intend to misdirect or beguile the motorist? Hop in car and tag along for 10 miles?
The stereotype may also derive from a man's instinct to protect others. Such as a spouse and children in the car, or his coworkers, or just a taxi driver's fare. The man has taken responsibility at the wheel, and control and liability rests on him to complete the journey. A man's sense of fatherhood and spousal love--"jealousy" is a fierce force of nature that ultimately can only be tempered or quelled by feminine influence.
Now take this defective "car analogy" and apply it to the US Gov, Justin Trudeau, or Mexico as you scope out and figure out what's really going on in 2025.
Countries would get all uppity about doing business in their jurisdiction if that were the case.
Part of the very reason we even have laws is to limit the power of what the government can do, and protect private entities from government overreach.
"Gulf of Mexico (Gulf of America)"
TBH, that parenthetical label outside jurisdiction or common usage seems like noise.More than noise, it feels they are force-feeding the world this "freedom fries" nonsense in a way that normalizes this behavior.
If the US wants to go ahead with this pathetic policy of renaming things as a way to stake a claim, limit this to their geo bounds. Don't let that brand of stupidity leak elsewhere.
This legal threat is interesting because in Mexico you should see the name of the gulf unchanged, and only in the US is it exclusively the Gulf of America. So I’m not sure how that would work in court.
But the reality is map providers have to be prepared to conform to local rules and standards all the time.
Yes, that's why it started showing "Gulf of America".
> Sometimes the solution is to show different names to people in different countries.
The "gulf of America" nonsense is nonsense originating and limited to the US. Allowing this stupidity to leak outside of the US is a problem no one signed up for.
Let's keep the lunacy in the lunatic asylum.
That said the whole thing is childish and stupid and a distraction from the massive grift being perpetrated on the American people right now.
I am not joking.
How is this helping anyone? Is it a distraction for actual substantive changes (positive or negative) Trump is making?
Its also just a giant middle finger to mexico.
Native Americans used winner takes all in the same manner that Europeans did. What's the big deal?
If anything, the comment is saying the opposite. Winners write history and get to name stuff. Often names just stick even after territory changes hands, but its undoubtedly true that a lot of place names in usa & canada are in english because britian "won". If france won more things would have french names. If spain won spanish. Undoubtedly if various indigenous groups "won" than a lot more things would have indigenous names. This doesn't make indigenous people special, it makes them the same as any other nation-state type group.
Apple Maps and Bing both show “Gulf of America.” OSM doesn’t seem to label the body of water at all.
But its stupid, and Trump making a sideshow.
"Americas" implies South America, which doesn't make sense. And only "America" ties it too closely to the US.
Of course the whole thing is silly and "Gulf of Mexico" was perfectly fine. And I say that as someone who supports 50% of what Trump is doing.
I'm assuming that Google didn't change it for how it shows in Mexico, so why do they care so much about what another country calls it? It's stupid for it to be renamed, don't get me wrong, but the outrage about it seems like it's because it came from Trump.
Those countries ain’t suing Google for calling those geographical places differently in different languages.
Quick check shows that google.com.mx shows it always as "Gulfo de Mexico". That's all that matters.
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I don't know why they decided to to do that in Canada. In the UK (for example), it only says "Gulf of America", same with Germany.
Everything is up for grabs! Greenland, Canada, the Panama Canal, Ukraine, the Gazan Riviera, Taiwan. It is a revisionist’s wet dream.
Whatever you wish could be yours!
For example, Germany is called Deutschland in German... Yet you don't see Germans demanding that we rename Germany to Dutchland to make it more consistent... They don't have jurisdiction over the English language.
I was also confused when Turkey made everyone rename it to Türkiye... I understand that they don't want to be confused for the Turkey bird but that 'u' letter with 2 dots doesn't even exist in English. WTF? You look at Google maps and all the countries use English letters except one; Türkiye. WTF? Seems like English language is being appropriated.