Gates warns of deaths if Trump and Musk don't reinstate foreign aid funding | Hacker News Reader

Gates warns of deaths if Trump and Musk don't reinstate foreign aid funding

fortune.com

22 pointsgeox17 comments

This is penny-wise/pound-foolish.

Setting aside the humanitarian interests, foreign aid also advances US interests around the world. There's a reason it comes from the State Department, is handled by US NGOs, and is overseen by the CIA.

Even a completely selfish/evil actor should still be smart enough to understand the value in stabilizing regions around the world and keeping trade partners happy. Whenever USAID pulled funding in places like Africa or South America, rivals or factions are more than happy to step in and exert their influence.

We can literally see the future in places like Panama. USAID pulled the funding decades ago when they thought their mission was over, China came in with a bunch of their money and began exerting influence on the government and the canal, and now the current administration is threatening to spend a lot of time and money and brain cells over it.

Is some USAID money basically bribing governments? Probably! But some of those bribes are going to central American governments in order to cut down on illegal immigration to the US. Cutting these payments works against their own goals.

Bill might not understand that: this might be the goal, those are not American lives after all. Also, Cutting diplomatic grease might be a good strategy to squeeze some nations. Instead of threatening to cut funding, cut it and get concessions for bringing it back.

Either way, not being American, and I agree USAID should not exist. It's a clutch for every country, keeping incompetent leaders/dictators in power.

I'm not sure that feeding starving people keeps incompetent leaders in power.

Plenty of incompetent leaders maintain power with starving people. Some by design.

I don't think there's any magic behind somehow punishing the locals / children and leadership change, let alone changes that are productive / what you want ...

Problem is, you can't trace the money from USAID to the actual starving people. Stays with the leaders.

Eeeeeehhhh I think you absolutely account for mouths fed and people are being fed.

I don't buy into the idea that this money always just vanishes.

I know some folks who actually ran charities that got some funding from the feds ... they feeding the locals.

I live in such a country, where news of foreign handouts happen multiple times a year, $X hundred million for agriculture, $Y billion over Z years for education, etc. Then you see local consultants taking in millions to manage the funds, or construction companies taking millions to design and build school projects, and then you start seeing schools that take years to build, that realistically cost 1% of what was spent, and don't even have bathrooms. Of course you can check the "did build school" box, or "did plant some potatoes" box, but let's not pretend this is where the money went.

Foreign aid helps hide the holes in incompetent/corrupt governments, so the economy takes a bit longer to crash, people a bit longer to notice, and people get reelected, rinse and repeat.

In my country, near elections, inflation rates nosedive, everything becomes cheaper, but government does not have all the money to do that because we import almost everything and our currency is weak. They use foreign aid money for some of this. After elections, rates skyrocket. Are people really better off just because they ate for 3 months longer?

I remember reading the argument in the "dictators handbook" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dictator%27s_Handbook), that foreign aid helps corrupt regimes.

"When aid funds are used to substitute for government spending, then few, maybe even no one, has actually been helped unless the government uses the freed-up money for other projects of benefit to the general population. Of course, they don’t. They use the money to shore up their political position and the loyalty of their essential backers."

So there is definitely an argument to be made, that if you are not careful with how you dispense foreign aid, you will definitely empower corrupt politicians.

The book discusses examples where foreign aid was used more effectively.

Yeah I'd be open to "more effecitve" rather than wholesale cuts.

But as for starving the poor to effect change you want, I think history has shown you just end up starving the powerless (folks in power don't care) and change doesn't necessarily happen. So who are you punishing?

I am not even sure this administration is cutting it with the goal of causing populations to rebel against corrupt politicians.

> I think history has shown you just end up starving the powerless (folks in power don't care) and change doesn't necessarily happen.

I know. I was not specifically arguing that it was definitely going to happen in all or even any current scenario. I just wanted to make the case that giving aid to countries with corrupt governments can definitely keep them in power longer.

I am not making the case, that we should sacrifice starving people, in the hopes of triggering a revolution. We just should stay cognizant of the fact, that foreign aid can influence internal political balances between factions. After analysis it might be, that we have to accept helping a dictator by stabilizing his country, if it saves more lives.

FWIW, even if the US succeeds in abolishing USAID that will only allow more harmful analogues like the IMF to step in. The diplomatic grease oftentimes exists to prevent diplomatic chafing. Wipe that away and you're left with a whole lot of pain and bleeding.

When America pulls the vig from countries that need it, they don't turn around and correct their course. We've been trying to strongarm Pakistan to do the right thing for 4 decades now, and all we've gotten in return is an accelerated nuclear focus and an experimental ICBM program. If we let these "sins of the father" situations fester, then they turn around to China or Russia for help instead. American leadership simply doesn't realize the value of globalism right now.

The christian religious right in the US seems to care for people far less than Jesus asked of them.

I never really understood that Christian claim. It's like values are cherry picked, "we like strong, male dominated families, no abortion! ...uhh, that's it!"

Please stop spreading these lies. The American people over the last several centuries have been the most generous people that has EVER existed. Yet we are tired of constantly being degraded for every little thing. We are stretched thin and need to make sure our house is in order before we start worrying about helping others. Jesus also didn’t ask them to give to their own detriment.

What lies exactly?

You put a finger in the wound

There are good reasons why you're supposed to secure your own oxygen mask before helping others. Nations should fund help to their own citizens before foreigners.

Last I checked, there's nothing stopping Gates and his billionaire friends from stepping up and replacing this foreign aid funding.

This money is given away entirely for self interest. I'm not necessarily opposed to retracting soft power, but I am annoyed when the right is so ignorant about what these programs are. They are not generosity for generosities sake. They are why America has the wealth that it does.

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