Portable drone jammer uses a Raspberry Pi tactical Software Defined Radio | Hacker News Reader

Portable drone jammer uses a Raspberry Pi tactical Software Defined Radio

tomshardware.com

103 pointsprotik4945 comments

I tried looking for how they're attacking ELRS (control link), and I'm seeing nothing.

There's Joachim's LoRa library. However ELRS uses the 2.4GHz and its a blend of LoRa and FHSS. Basically you need a BladeRF or better to attack the control link properly.

And given the RPi platform, they're likely using RPITX as the SDR transmitter. Lucky to get 1MHz bandwidth... And you need 80MHz minimum.

And the RPi doesn't have the horsepower to properly do 20 or more LoRa channels, with 112MHz mode on Blade.

Until I see a BoM, code, or demonstration, I'm going to consider this to be hogwash.

Anyone who cares about signal integrity is using dual-band, so you'd also need to cover the 915MHz/868MHz band. It might be possible that there's some kind of hideous vulnerability in ELRS, but there's a pretty high-stakes jamming contest going on right now.

Apparently they're using some kind of broad spectrum systems in Ukraine that modulate across a wide range of frequencies at the same time, making it hard to jam them.

Any sources on some of the tech being used over there?

I do wonder if it is using something like this [0], but then there is always PrivacyLRS[1].

[0] https://www.nccgroup.com/us/research-blog/technical-advisory...

[1] https://github.com/sensei-hacker/PrivacyLRS

It looks more like someone built a fun cyberdeck-style build with some neat hardware, and have a use case in mind... but until I see any code or evidence it does what it says, I'd be a little doubtful.

No way in hell anyone using drones for military purposes is even using non-modified ELRS, at the very least the hopping sequence is sourced from a CSPRNG and there's packet authentication.

Unfortunately the probable countermeasure to things like this pushing more autonomy to the drone so expect a lot less human in the loop control where jamming is a problem i.e active conflict zones.

Fiber optics is already a non-ML solution to jamming (and RF based detection).

How does that work? fiber optics are delicate. you mean free-space optics?

Very long spools are connected to the drone and it is flown by wire until it strikes its target.

Like a TOW missile or early torpedoes? Surprised we still use that method, but I guess it works!

Yes the method is nothing new. The novelty is FPV, considerably longer range (15km+) and relatively low cost.

TOW missiles were, believe it or not, FPV..

Optical tracking isnt fpv

precisely

here's a video from ukraine showing fiber optic cables all over the ground: https://files.catbox.moe/fx980o.mp4 maybe someone will find this interesting like I did.

nope, fiber optics

https://www.spotterglobal.com/blog/spotter-blog-3/new-stealt...

free-space optics are sensitive to atmospheric attenuation and los. you mean fiber optics and be careful not to fly in a way that exceeds the bend radius.

Currently in Ukraine both sides are apparently using spools of fibre on their drones due to the RF environment. ISTR reading that they're able to carry several KM of fibre each.

Delicate doesn't really matter - these are kamikaze drones carrying shaped-charge explosives or anti-personnel grenades, often taking out individual soldiers one by one (as well as tanks etc). Seems wasteful but potentially the near to midterm future of warfare?

Not wasteful at all when compared to the cost of "conventional" munitions.

This is incredible. Especially the link below to buy the system. I see it unspools at the drone to prevent tangling. How you prevent being traced if some of the enemy’s survivors follow the thread?

How do you prevent being traced?

I believe the answer is you shoot at them with automatic weapons.

incredibly thin, hard to find fiber optic, laying on the ground in a live combat zone -- essentially a non-issue

it's the same idea as SACLOS anti-tank missiles that are "wire guided". if someone is shooting those at you, you have way bigger things to worry about than tracing cables -- you're in a killzone, so try not to die.

why follow the cable - they already know what direcion you are in. By the time they can follow the cable several km back you have already moved elsewhere. and of course you never are alone so someone else is watching for them to come and will shoot them just like any other attacker coming your way. attackers have it easier as they can stick to cover while following the cable means they are in the open in places near your line.

Your drone has a friend to tag the survivors.

From what I've seen and read, the thing preventing you being traced by someone following the fibre is simply huge numbers of drones literally flying into enemy soldiers and detonating.

It is terrifying viewing the videos as people try and (unsuccessfully) dodge the drones, or are accidentally shot by their own comrades who are trying to (unsuccessfully) shoot down the drone, or are run-over by their own side's tanks/APCs who are panicking and trying to (unsuccessfully) outrun a drone, or are blown up trying to (unsuccessfully) take cover in a trench/dugout/building/APC/tank and a drone literally just flies in through the door/window/hatch and detonates (perhaps followed by another two or three for good measure)

Genuinely sounds absolutely terrifying, more so than any other horror stories of e.g. WW1 & 2.

To be certain, by "incredible" I meant more "fascinating", or "intriguing" and not "cool!". War is obviously horrifying and for this reason I haven't even watched any of the videos. That's what made the fibre development novel to me.

I certainly hope we reach a point very soon that we stop the senseless killing.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/FPV-Accessories-Drone...

You can get it shipped today, 3km, 5km, 10km variants available! :D

gotta "send inquiry" -- may not actually be available, and pricing TBD

very well, and functions similar to SACLOS missiles.

arguably the same basic idea, just with more maneuverable payloads.

crystal clear recordings out there of said drones if you're willing to stomach r/combatfootage or similar

I'm slightly upset reading this as my first bootstrapped startup was prototyping VERY similar devices....in 2017-2019, until I ran out of money. If I had the resources to make it to production I would have been VERY well positioned to capture sales early on after Russia's 2022 invasion when everyone was experimenting like crazy in the EW space and government funding of COTS equipment was readily available.

sigh

Wouldn’t intentional interference be very illegal to do at random? Sure, hard to get caught but isn’t it illegal?

Jamming is very illegal in the US at least. https://www.fcc.gov/general/jammer-enforcement

Now might be the time to do it though, maybe everyone at the fcc will be fired before your caught.

If you’ve got bored hams around, they’ll catch you.

I doubt the FCC will be disbanded in a way that prevents any enforcement of anti-jamming rules. But the only thing local hamsters would do is report you to the FCC, so if it were dissolved as GP posits, it wouldn't matter which hams find you.

Drones are used in active warfare as we speak, legality in civil use is pretty irrelevant in that context.

So you’re clarifying that for 0.1% of HN the legality is not an issue as if those in war zones were wondering?

I feel like I should have the right to block someone trying to use a drone to look inside of my windows.

Nobody is doing that.

But the legal way to do that is by closing your blinds.

I know a guy (Australia) who does this regularly. If a drone flys over his back yard he activates his jammer and the thing makes a controlled vertical descent to his lawn.

100% of the time its neighbourhood kids trying out their toy, and they need to come beg for it back. Then he has the chat about privacy etc etc.

The jammer itself came from Alibaba I think.

Very illegal here in Australia. I believe even possession is illegal. Technically even our SDRs need to be below some power threshold, though most probably don't conform.

Do we discuss only legal things on the website _Hacker_ News?

So a mute jammer from siege.

12 V power supply … sdr that jams ELRS like they don’t even know what ELRS is or how it works. An SDR that could jam that wide of a frequency all at once would be very, very expensive.

Also you can just buy a purpose made 300 W jammer on AliExpress

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