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Comment by labster | Hacker News Reader

This is an act of war, right? Or are we just going to let Russia get away with it again?

It's the gray area we're living in.

Blowing up nordstream was an act of war but couldn't be pinned to anyone. When Russia invaded Ukraine they were prettending it was "green man" from outer space.

Meanwhile country A has an interest in country B, so country C instills a coup or train and fund islamic group.

The worst part is that this is only the tip of an iceberg, shards of reality that surface to mass media. The real damage is done by influencing masses.

Gasprom fined for $20 billion due to stopping gas flow. IMHO, it's a huge reason to blow the pipe. Pipe is much cheaper to build or repair. Moreover, one of Nord Stream 2 tubes is intact, so RF still can supply gas to EU if Germany will allow NS 2 to work.

The WSJ does not agree with your theory. It blames it on Zalushny.

$20 billion is nothing. Europe already froze $300 billion in Russian assets. No one believes this theory outside Ukraine.

Zaluzny cannot do that: he is head of Armed Forces of Ukraine, while this is clearly a special operation, think FSB, GRU, GUR, CIA instead of an army. AFU destroys Russian oil and gas infrastructure with drones.

$20 billion is more than enough to pay for few hundreds of such operations or bribe a few millions of investigators or paid articles in reputable journals.

Just like Nord Stream. My country had no interest in pursuing investigations against our "allies".

Personally, I would not like to go to war for a Business Insider article. But no one asks what the German population wants.

In the upcoming election you can vote exactly what you want, is there anything I'm missing?

The current US administration seems to be on-board with letting Russia get away with everything.

The Europeans and Biden administration had nearly 3 years to do something, Ukraine was still losing territory when Biden left office...

All they do is talk, which is why the Ukrainians got fed up with them and for better or worse Zelenskyy is now talking up Trump...

Zelenskyy is talking to Trump because he doesn't have any other choice now. Trump is most likely to let Putin keep what he's captured while also requiring Ukraine to "stay neutral" (and pledge to never join NATO)... and requiring Ukraine send the US rare earth minerals.

Yes, the Biden admin was slow to let Ukraine use the weapons we gave them in an effective manner. He was afraid that Putin might go nuclear (at least initially, I think they were realizing that Putin's threats were more bark than bite in the last year or so). He was also wary of the rhetoric coming from the Trump campaign during the last year about how Biden wanted to get the US into a boots-on-the-ground war in Ukraine - in that sense he was trying to thread a needle. But Biden was very supportive of NATO, whereas Trump wants out of NATO. And Ukraine has managed to draw out a war that Russia was "supposed" to win in a couple of months to a stalemate after 3 years while also managing to capture a bit of Russian territory.

> But Biden was very supportive of NATO, whereas Trump wants out of NATO.

Trump's threats have caused most of Europe to rapidly ramp up defence spending, meanwhile Biden's "support" accomplished basically nothing, practically speaking. Nice words without action are useless.

The russian threat is why military spending is increasing in europe (look at countries which increased spending and their proximity to russia).

> The Europeans and Biden administration had nearly 3 years to do something (...)

They did. They supported Ukraine and turned Russia's 3-day invasion into a 3-year-and-counting quagmire where:

- Russia suffered a humiliating defeat and pushed out of Kiev,

- barely made any progress beyond the initial blitzkrieg,

- got it's black sea fleet sunk and destroyed,

- saw parts of it's territory invaded and captured by Ukraine,

- is helplessly seeing it's oil industry being decimated,

- is begging the likes of Iran and North Korea for help, including boots on the ground.

As much as it pains Russia to admit, this is exactly what Russia's defeat scenario looks like: a long drawn out conflict that forces Russia to self destruct without a single boot on the ground from NATO.

Russia has been here before, many times. They're remarkably resilient and good at sacrificing their own population to achieve their goals.

At the time Biden left office, Ukraine was losing territory. There's no saying Russia would have or will lose, unfortunately. A stronger response from the US and Europe was/is needed...

> Russia has been here before, many times.

Not really. Each time a quagmire like this takes place, Russia collapses. The last time was Afghanistan.

Like the 20th Century two world wars, the US will be late for WW3 and it'll take a much bigger act than sabotaging one German ship. But if history plays out like it usually does (which it is) it's coming.

On which side would the US join the fight? Its movement towards Russia and away from NATO is accelerating dramatically, and it’s not clear where the trend will stop. Culturally, the US is increasingly at odds with scolds of liberal Europe and in tune with domineering Muscovite Russia.

If the US sided with Russia against Europe a big chunk of the US population would oppose that. (But even staying neutral and not supporting a NATO nation should one be attacked by Russia would be a bad outcome.)

This is temporary. The US has a lot more to lose by siding with Russia

This present timeline was predicted back in 2011. European politicians have been cutting their defense spending for some time and their military capabilities have been deteriorating.

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/natosource/text-of-spe...

A failed sabotage attempt is not grounds for initiating arm conflict involving the the biggest military alliance on the planet against a beaten and cornered state on the brink of financial ruin, that just happens to have the world's largest stockpile of nuclear weapons. That would lead to disaster for all.

May cooler heads prevail.

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