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Comment by seydor | Hacker News Reader

> Financial insecurity is also one of the chief concerns for doctoral students in Japan

I question the premise that low pay caused this drop. PhD research was never about financial security , instead it pays in prestige and expertise of notoriously ramen-eating overworking geniuses. Prestige has certainly gone down since they became so commodified, and expertise can end with a Master's. Most PhDs are not even computer science and related fields (where the most interesting research roles are in companies).

We should rethink the duration and archaic formulation of the doctoral programs. Our times are faster

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> PhD research was never about financial security

You're looking at this wrong. PhD was always about financial security for the vast majority of PhDs. You think all those Chinese and Korean etc. students are coming to study engineering to get invited to the good parties back home? No, they're doing it because it provides financial security. Same for places all over the world. Europe, everywhere.

It's basically upper and upper middle class white Americans who pursue PhDs for the social prestige, because they already have actual capital, so they're pursuing social capital. Everyone else does it for a combination of money and love for the subject matter.

i believe you re talking about financial secutiry after the Phd, not during

Yes, I was.

I suspect most PhD candidates who are considering a future career in academia are thinking about financial security after, not during. So if we're talking about why are there fewer PhD candidates...

Universities have been offering doctoral degrees for at least 800 years. It’s unclear to me that they have ever been linked to powerful/ultra-wealth careers. I think that completely discounting the “prestige” factor would fail to capture a large number of academics. Especially in fields like Philosophy (from whence the Ph gets it’s abbreviation).

Up until like 1700 most of the population was illiterate

Mostly only the nobility, and later, the merchant/professional class, even sent their kids to school. Born out in the country like 90% of the population ? Well your helping with the harvest, keep watch over the herd, etc. sux2bu I guess

Universities have ALWAYS been practically accessible to at best the middle class, which barely even existed until around 1500. Before then, you’re mostly talking about nobles

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