Hard disk fraud: long runtimes on new Seagate hard disks
heise.de
heise.de
As soon as you bring up a refund/warranty errand with the retailer they will offer a 50% discount for the battery in return for you not giving them a 1-star rating. Now you've still paid them for a bad battery, and you've helped keeping the systemic economic crime alive by not warning other customers.
This is because eBay will ALWAYS side with the customer, and the seller will get a ding to boot.
Never ever do a return with Chinese sellers, they will use it against you and you will lose your chance to dispute the transaction.
If you are sold junk complain to the seller, then if they don't refund you go ahead and raise a dispute. If they offer a return then ask them to refund you ahead of time, in full, and to provide a label for the return.
Well - that’s not my experience!
Case 1 Packages lost, no track’n’trace one vendor sent order once more for no charge, another om gave a 50% discount
Case 2 Product defect, returned it and later received the refund (matching their t&c)
Case 3 (different, but shows customer service is working as expected) Wrong item received Full refund received
In all cases I initiated a dialog, not just posted a bed review (‘keeping the leverage’)
So maybe SOME Chinese shops misbehave, but for sure US and EU shops are similar…
AliExpress is the shop in question…
Just don’t think all are the same !!!
I bought some tools on Amazon, sent them back because of quality issues, and left a 1 star review (they don't allow zero star reviews but that's another issue). Sure enough I get an email offering to send me a replacement, asking me to remove my review, I reported it and who knows what happens from there.
Now, I have had very similar things happen on a website like HomeDepot.com, the manufacturer reached out, sent me a different tool as a replacement, and said I did not have to remove my review but they would appreciate if I did.
Just as bad, IMO. The whole point of reviews is to let other consumers know your experience with the product.
Amazon and eBay are companies, which will do whatever is profitable and legal. The entity which should crack down on this is the government.
Additionally, the retailer could actually have ethics of their own and choose willingly to raise the bar.
It was risk assessed and needed a complete redesign for the EU market. Model B is so safe it cannot even take off a finger.
Now model A is no longer built and model B is sold in the USA and EU. It was not the goodness of the company that re-engineered safety into the product. It was EU laws and regulations that demand safety be built into the product.
The cost savings of manufacturing only model B is why A is no longer sold in the USA. Economic side effects of multinational trade is what gave USA a better and safer product.
Proper regulation works. It saves limbs and lives. USA is one of the countries with the lowest standards. USA companies and law makers care about money, not your safety or not consumer protection. And if they do they are the GREAT minority.
EU has better quality of food standards. USA allows for designing food to be addictive. Just look at the difference in sugar in bread standards. USA consumes sugar loafs.
Japan has their food packaging to resemble what is actually inside. USA will edit mold riddled images to look fresh and a dream of what is actually being sold versus the real thing. Learned that from a family member that delivered food product to a marketing company.
Norway requires advertising photos to be labeled if they are modified and unnatural. USA helps promote unrealistic body standards which amplifies emotional, mental, and physical harm. Something I have been trying to help a family member with for over a year. Anorexia and suicidal behavior of go hand in hand.
USA standards are more harmful than other 1st world countries. USA companies and lawmakers actively harm their citizens for profit.
They are easy targets for populists with their lies and oneliners: - EU is suffocating us with their laws. - EU is meddling with what we eat. - Plants need co2 to grow, so more co2 is better.
But when you ask the same people: - Do you want to be screwed over by companies so that they can make more profit? - Should companies be allowed to mix everything in your food for more profit? - Plants also need water, would it be OK to flood them?
They would answer NO to all of the above. But people seem not capable of asking the same questions themself.
The problem in the US is that they don't do either of those things well and then you get consolidated markets that are insulated from competition or competitive markets where fraud is rampant, and the latter tend to become the former because a high rate of fraud causes people to turn to major brands to protect themselves until the market consolidates.
The problem in Europe is that they not only don't prevent market consolidation, they pass rules that make it worse. You don't need to micromanage how stuff is made or how people interact with each other as long as you have competitive markets and informed consumers, because then people just don't patronize abusive businesses because they both have alternatives and know about them. But if you do micromanage everything then compliance costs go up, which are fixed costs that increase barriers to entry into the market, which reduces competition and then you're screwed again. The best case there is cost disease where everything costs an order of magnitude more than it should because everyone is paying for an army of bureaucrats to check boxes, but even more common is that you get that and abusive cartels that take advantage of consumers in every way that hasn't already been regulated. Which becomes a vicious cycle where more abuses lead to more regulations which lead to higher costs and even more market consolidation.
EU allows for ease of maintenance because opening the electrical cover allows for quick glimpse of what wires do what. In the US, you need access to the production manual, or a lot of time with a multi-meter, to know what that black wire really does. This saves money and time by having color coding standards, for the manufacturer and consumer.
Electrical standards is another example. In the EU extension cords must supply the amperage they are being plugged into. Often the cord and surge protector need fuses to prevent fires. In the US, they sell 13 amp extension cords for 20 amp outlets. This greatly increase the chances of an electrical fire in the US and pushes the EU to near zero.
I know not to buy anything below the outlet amperage when buying an extension cord or surge protector. This requires education that the average person does not have. Regulations help remove the need for this type of education while providing a quality and sound solution that does the least chance of harm.
Talking to those from EU and Japan, they often restate the same benefits the the USA has. 1) Access to natural resources. 2) Fast changing business strategy pivots. Not once have I talked to someone from their wished they had the low standards in the food and other industries.
This free market and competitive market that people always talk about does not exist and never can truly exist. How many companies can sell the automation to place the chocolate dots on mass-produced cookies?
Should the EU abandon the USB-C charger and allow Apple to keep producing the lightening charger, increase unnecessary e-waste? Selling the lightening exclusive helped increase Apple's bottom monetary line. So should EU allow Apple to move back to the lightening charger?
Should we remove all regulation so that Grünenthal can sell thalidomide again?
Should we completely abandon all food manufacturing standards and allow Johnson and Johnson to sell asbestos in their baby powder or Abbott Nutrition’s Sturgis to sell baby formula with cronobacter?
USA McDownlad's has show they are willing to lower their standards when they can make more money from having to service their franchise's ice cream machines instead having quality and making money on the profit of their ice products.
Regulations need a proper balance. Zero regulation is an improper balance. If you believe in no regulations you don't have any standards yourself.
Which machine would you prefer using daily, along with your loved ones? Model A or Model B? One that can take off a limb and even decapitate you or the one that cannot?
Excellent example. Let's suppose you pass a law requiring the red wire to be source and the black wire to be ground. Now you go to manufacture your new solar battery system. The system has wired connections for the AC power grid, DC power from the solar system, DC power from the batteries and AC power to supply the building. The system contains an inverter so if you want it to it can take 220V 50Hz input and produce 110V 60Hz output or vice versa. The system also has a USB port being supplied with DC power. If the law requires the source to be red, you now have five different sources at different voltages, some are AC and others DC, different frequencies, but they're all the same color. The law is then requiring something confusing and dangerous. Is a red wire the 5V DC for the USB port or the 220V AC from the power grid?
Okay, so then we'd need a much more complicated law that specifies a bunch of different wire colors. Now the law is creating something complicated and dangerous, because there are lots of different combinations you could have. What if there is three-phase power and a neutral? What if there is a third AC connection for a backup generator? If the law says that systems using both AC and DC power should use different colors for AC and DC, you now can't produce a modular component that contains any wires because what color they need to be would depend on what other components are in the system. If you try to assign a separate permanent color to each possible combination so they could be modular, you'd need so many colors in the standard that many would be confusingly similar to each other.
The better solution is, have best practices that nobody is required by law to follow if they don't make sense in context, but everybody is required to document whatever it is they actually do.
> How many companies can sell the automation to place the chocolate dots on mass-produced cookies?
> In the US, they sell 13 amp extension cords for 20 amp outlets.
The US has two standard 110V power outlets, 15 amp and 20 amp, and 15 amp plugs are compatible with 20 amp outlets under the theory that the 20 amp outlet is more than sufficient to supply a 15 amp load. That decision was made in the 20th century and is impractical to change. Prohibiting <20 amp cords from being plugged into a 20 amp outlet would then effectively be a prohibition on <20 amp cords, but 20 amp cords are more expensive and almost never necessary, especially in homes that typically have 15 amp breakers.
Should they have designed the plugs better before, so that you can plug a 15 amp load into a 20 amp outlet but not a 15 amp extension cord? Sure, but it's too late for that.
You're essentially asking for a law that wastes many metric tons of copper and raises prices on everyone in exchange for a marginal safety improvement in an edge case for people who aren't paying attention. It's exactly the sort of poor cost/benefit rule that shouldn't exist.
> This free market and competitive market that people always talk about does not exist and never can truly exist. How many companies can sell the automation to place the chocolate dots on mass-produced cookies?
It's not just a question of how many companies currently sell them, it's a question of who else would sell them if that company started abusing its customers and the customers started soliciting alternate suppliers. In other words, what would it take for someone else to start making those machines?
And putting more rules on how you can do it makes it harder to compete, and reduces that competitive pressure.
> Should the EU abandon the USB-C charger and allow Apple to keep producing the lightening charger, increase unnecessary e-waste? Selling the lightening exclusive helped increase Apple's bottom monetary line. So should EU allow Apple to move back to the lightening charger?
The premise here is competitive markets. Apple is a vertically integrated conglomerate, which impairs competition. The EU shouldn't be demanding they use a particular standard (which is now enshrined in law and prohibits any future innovations), they should be breaking the company into operating systems and Apple Silicon and phones, so that the phone maker has the same incentive to use the current standard as any other.
> Should we completely abandon all food manufacturing standards and allow Johnson and Johnson to sell asbestos in their baby powder or Abbott Nutrition’s Sturgis to sell baby formula with cronobacter?
Selling baby powder with asbestos in it without listing asbestos as an ingredient is fraud. Listing asbestos as an ingredient is not likely to garner a lot of sales.
> USA McDownlad's has show they are willing to lower their standards when they can make more money from having to service their franchise's ice cream machines instead having quality and making money on the profit of their ice products.
But why is this a problem when you can buy ice cream from Wendy's or become a franchisee of some other restaurant chain?
> Which machine would you prefer using daily, along with your loved ones? Model A or Model B? One that can take off a limb and even decapitate you or the one that cannot?
But that's the point, isn't it? If there is competition, i.e. both are available, which one do you buy?
Apollo private equity buys a respected but financially struggling baby food company and starts putting asbestos in it to cut costs. After kids start getting sick, nobody really feels better that asbestos was listed on the label and that the free market is going to correct it.
Not everyone reads the label, but enough people do that it would be discovered on the first day, if not before the first day as some retailers check for label changes before putting a modified product on their shelves. Any retailer who didn't notice this to begin with would then notice the front page story condemning the company for doing it and all of the products would be removed from the shelves and returned to the manufacturer to save the retailer from the reputation hit of carrying it in their store. The manufacturer's reputation would be destroyed and no one would be willing to carry their products, depriving them of the incentive to do this because it would immediately tank the company, and this would be an obvious outcome to private equity firms who want to make rather than lose money.
Notice that you can currently buy things like arsenic for use as rat poison and this is not a problem because the label tells you that it's arsenic so you know not to use it as a food additive.
Meanwhile the EU bathes in the same Chinese garbage imported by the boat-load as long as it carries the CE mark, which they are allowed to self-certify in nearly every case, making it meaningless.
Yes, some products have been found with incorrect dimensions on their CE markings. Yes, some products have been found with non-compliant specifications. But AFAIK no products, having been accused of non-compliant specifications in spite of CE markings, have ever defended themselves with the excuse that the mark is not a true CE mark but instead some mythical “China Export” mark. It has never happened. It’s an urban myth.
And my grandmother could get some wheels and become a bicycle.
Amusingly the same legislation also mandates that "A company must not be registered under [the companies act] by a name that, in the opinion of the Secretary of State, consists of or includes computer code.”
So no more "drop tables" company names.
The problem with fraud is what else these same people are organizing themselves to do. Today it's fake gadgets, tomorrow it's fentyl precursors, the next day it's kidnap for ransom. You go after it for the same reason the US Federal government took on the mob 60 years ago.
So can amazon staff.
They are still for sale. Lots have negative reviews from people who lost data because these are 64gb drives with reflashed firmware to report 2048gb.
Amazon is next level — it has made a lot of money from being the world’s largest fence. Co-mingled inventory makes it trivial to launder stolen goods. They react to things very slowly, as they are at arms length and both make money having criminal FBA sellers operate and by weakening the competition. Walgreen’s pain is Amazon’s gain.
The brands slowed down for some things — you can’t sell Tide easily on Amazon now. But now Walmart is locking up men’s briefs because the gangs move to the next commodity.
Customers will then suck it up and it becomes the new normal.
I'm curious where you see the short-sightedness of this objectively successful and already long lasting strategy ?
Amazon and eBay should crack down on it so the government doesn't.
History is full of examples of companies doing the right thing if only to prevent government regulation.
Citing a couple would help your argument.
The "business model" of the EU is to check if something is going wrong or could be changed to make the life of European citizens better, to then show that to the industry with "hey, we noticed X - you got a chance to clean up shop on your own, or we will force you by passing laws".
I'm not making an argument. I'm stating a fact that is well-known if you follow business at all.
In the United States, it is common for:
1. Politician to complain about situation.
2. Congressional committee holds hearing about situation.
3. Congressmen threaten to pass laws about situation.
4. Industry involved in situation makes changes so that laws are unnecessary.
The airline industry is full of examples. This is basic knowledge. Google is your friend.Just put a bad score and ask for refund. Amazon does a good job here as you never interact with the seller
I see plenty of 5 star reviews being edited to 2-3 star reviews afterwards though?
So I take the 50% and give them a bad rating once the money is in my bank account, complete with the documentation of their bribe for a good review. What do they do, realistically? (Probably get the review taken down by the platform administrators, but I did not contribute.)
> they will offer a 50% discount
I feel like I would need more than a 50% discount in order to go along with this...needing to charge/swap a battery more frequently is added cost! :p
Wait how is that supposed to work - why would you buy another bad battery from them at 50% off? why would they have any say in why review you leave?
As you cannot deny cookies without paying.
Stop pushing EU-wide laws you cannot yourself adhere to.
The GDPR states that consent should be freely given and one can argue that forcing you to choose between payment our tracking is not a free choice but cohersed. I personally think that interpretation is correct.
Since a large part of German media in also doing the same, they are lobbying for this to only apply to "large online providers".
Here is a good writeup on the situation: https://iapp.org/news/a/pay-ok-or-a-third-way-context-analys...
Edit - ok, being downvoted - how should content be monetized if both targeted ads and subscriptions are off the table? Are we saying GDPR requires a site to operate off generic, non-targeted ads?
I think Google's flock was the only serious attempt to solve this, but obviously it got heavily criticised by HN fundamentalists who think that the web should be entirely free and ad-free with zero tracking. To be fair it does have a rather big practical issue in that only Google has any incentive to actually implement it (I don't see why Microsoft or Mozilla or Apple would ever bother).
We're probably stuck with tracking unless the EU gets some sense and mandates a do-not-track style preference system, and actually enforces it with fines.
How is this site’s “Pay or Take a Cookie” approach worse for the consumer than a total paywall?
I’d rather we didn’t have to have annoying ads, but generating and hosting content costs money.
Then even the small part of the population that would consider going through the process of adding yet another subscription to their life either leaves or consents to tracking, because who's going to pay 5 EUR (and Heise is pretty "cheap" compared to some) for access to one article?
I would not be so angry with the concept if the costs, and the effort necessary to pay, was more in line with the income from personalised ads. Pay two cents per view with the push of a button? Sure. Pay 2 EUR for a week of access? Maybe. But so many publications want me to pay almost a print subscription price for any access, clearly showing they don't intend this as a real alternative.
There's plenty of options, but they can only be explored once nobody offers news in exchange for personal data. People used to pay for physical newspapers, and it worked, better than the current web approaches IMO.
At that point you may as well just cover the entire screen with a "Agree to anything" button
That seems to be too cheap to be true.
still dont understand how a major disk maker got caught up in something as skeezy as this though
I'm not sure what you mean by "caught up in". You make it sound like their employees were involved. It's a pretty universal organized crime problem affecting all sorts of industries - used part dealers rolling back the odometer on things and sneaking them back into the supply chain as low milage or new. A store might be an "authorized distributor" but that doesn't mean they can't be tricked by a fake salesperson. Every brand battles counterfeiters and fraudsters somewhat. Here's a Western Digital odometer reset for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL9u6QwTsW8 Gotta be careful what alleyway you buy your rolexes from.
None of the drives in this article were shipped by Seagate, only some by authorized resellers.
EG, Amazon, newegg are authorized resellers.
Any other seller is (at a glance) indistinguishable as a legitimate business or a scalper/scammer.. and there's plenty of legitimate businesses operating in the grey area in-between too.
Documentation is easy to find online. There's commands giving access to a lot of functionality. Modifying SMART values is trivially done.
Thus, they likely wrote a script that gets the job done in seconds. Attach device to hdd and remove when LED turns red. Done, next.
Seagate could make this a little harder, but hasn't. This is likely the case only because nobody has abused this at a scale before.
Most of the time, they just resell products from factories who didn't pass the quality tests.