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Comment by hackermeows | Hacker News Reader

Wonder how Elon is getting the clearance for this , dude smoked weed on camera , isn’t that automatically disqualifying for gov clearance ?

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They seem to be coloring entirely outside the lines here. Much like trump with his bulk exec order and see what sticks approach

He doesn't have clearance. They march into the offices, demand access, whoever is there says "no", then that person gets fired (placed "on leave") ten minutes later. Rinse and repeat.

"This is why it's an illegal coup."

Vs ? what? a legal coup? or the other varietys like these agencies under scruteny fund worldwide?

A coup is a sudden takeover or upset, it does not have to be illegal, though it is usually understood to be.

Musk has, and has had, top secret security clearance for years, due to his SpaceX work launching spy satellites for the US government.

The president has top secret clearance and doesn't have access to personal tax returns. I don't believe there is a blanket "all things included" security clearance.

This is correct. There is no "you get access to everything" kind of clearance. That includes the President. Congress has the power to get access to anything, but even then there is a tight process limited to a handful of congresspeople.

A core part of this sort of security is compartmentalization. A person who has "top secret" level clearance has it for specific subject matter. Their clearance is worthless if they're outside those boundaries.

That's not quite right:

"The President of the United States will be given access to any government or military information that they request, even if they would not otherwise be able to normally obtain a security clearance were they not the President."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_security_clearan...

Trump essentially granted Musk his presidential clearance. If Musk hits any resistance to classified information, Trump can just access it and hand it to Musk. If it's a crime to do so, Trump can declassify it, pardon Musk, or just instruct his DOJ not to charge him.

I was merely answering the parent's comment, which they seem to have significantly edited after the fact.

But no, there is no "all things included" security clearance.

And you're right, POTUS does not normally have access to tax returns information, per 26 U.S.C. § 6103:

https://codes.findlaw.com/us/title-26-internal-revenue-code/...

While there are guidelines in the form of an unclassified, gov't-hosted desk reference [1] ultimate discretion seems to be left to adjudicators. There are public archives [2] that talk about such decisions made in tricky cases of criminal activity, financial malfeasance, potential blackmail, etc. I've seen at least one where somebody admitted to doing hard drugs while having a clearance and actually got upgraded to a TS (though this was ~10 years ago and I can't find it via search engine).

[1] https://www.dhra.mil/portals/52/documents/perserec/adr_versi...

[2] https://doha.ogc.osd.mil/Industrial-Security-Program/Industr...

Musk's clearance was already somewhat restricted because of it and limited things he could see at SpaceX

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/07/elon-musk-asks-pentagon-for-...

After he did a $1 million lottery a day only for Registered Republicans, to bypass pay for registration laws, in a swing state during the election.. I'm guessing any leftovers of that will be lifted.

More recent sources, lawyers advised him not to try for higher clearance because of the drug use: https://www.thedailybeast.com/elon-musk-denied-access-to-spa...

Trump did clearance by fiat for a number of officials who he knew could not pass traditional clearance processes; as President he has that power though President’s generally use the process that has been established rather than doing it ad hoc both because they realize that they are fallible so having proper vetting is substantively good, and because they want to avoid the appearance of personal favoritism/corruption (Trump, very clearly, shares neither of those concerns.)

Presidential mandate

To become a dictator? This isn't in the presidential powers. Congress needs to pass a bill if they want to do this.

> This isn't in the presidential powers. Yes it is! It is literally the first sentence of section 1 of Article II of the constitution!

Saying, "I don't like this therefore it's not in his power" is logically identical to seeing Congress pass a law that you don't like and saying, "this isn't in Congress' power"

The power of the purse was deliberately placed with Congress in Article I, Section 9, Clause 7: "No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law." This isn't about liking or disliking powers, it's about maintaining the constitutional balance that protects everyone's rights. Article II Section 1 establishes the presidency and electoral process, but the Take Care Clause in Section 3 actually requires the President to faithfully execute Congress's laws. This separation of powers exists specifically to prevent any branch from exercising unchecked authority over public funds. Changing funding requires congressional action because that's a core protection built into our system. It's not an obstacle to be worked around, it's a fundamental safeguard of our constitutional republic.

> "No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law."

Yes that's true ...and totally irrelevant.

Trump is NOT drawing money from the treasury. He is performing the executive function - specifically in this case finding fraud.

This exact issue was settled after Nixon tried blocking environmental funds. The Supreme Court ruled in Train v. City of New York (1975) that the executive branch cannot refuse to spend appropriated money. Congress then passed the Impoundment Control Act to make it crystal clear. The president must execute spending as directed by law. Creating new positions to block these payments is just impoundment with extra steps.

By winning a plurality of the vote and being within a couple thousand votes in a few swing states changing the outcome?

He won, but just.

Not that it matters. Serial violators of others' autonomy aren't know for coloring between the lines. Give them a femtometer and they take a light-year. And when you're a star, or president, they let you do it.

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