Disney+ loses 700k subscribers following price increase | Hacker News Reader

Disney+ loses 700k subscribers following price increase

macrumors.com

75 pointsmgh277 comments

There's also another big issue with their new single household approach - there's now no way to have a single user across two devices on separate wi-fi networks, even if they're in the same area and even if you pay them for the extra sharing (you only get a new user). So that means that Disney+ no longer works for kids of divorced/separated parents. This is particularly frustrating given that other providers like Netflix, Prime, and Apple TV don't have this restriction.

So, you're saying that I couldn't watch on my desktop at home, and on my laptop at school for instance?

The way I understand their mechanism, it lets you log in on a separate device, but will complain if you don't connect that device to your "household" wi-fi within a few days, and will then force you to either stop using your Disney+ account on that new device, or to transfer your "household" to its current wi-fi network, disabling the devices on the old network, and giving you a limited amount of such transfers.

So it's ok for phones/tablets/laptops that get moved around, but blocks usage on PCs or TVs across networks.

it's all so fucking stupid. why do they care WHERE you're watching the content if you're paying for 1, 2, ... N seats per month? Besides which country you're in, which I could understand.

Is this true? We still use Disney+ on two (three) wifi networks across two households (same kid, just different wifi networks) and it still seems to work just fine.

Here's the relevant documentation: https://help.disneyplus.com/en-US/article/disneyplus-subscri...

Hope for you that your situation somehow passes their detection and that it keeps working for you.

Oh, I see. It seems they don't enforce this on tablets, which is what the kids are usually using.

This doesnt say anything about wifi, presumably it is detecting some other network identifier so that it also works on Ethernet connected devices. If so, seems like you could connect via VPN to your main "home" network.

A decrease of about 0.6% of the subscriber base after a much larger than 0.6% price increase, so I'm guessing they consider this a success.

"Disney+ gains $480 in revenue following price increase"

Less users means less operational cost I guess.

Change in operating costs are probably a rounding error either way, considering the vast majority of expenses are content production and engineer salaries, and those are fixed.

> I'm guessing they consider this a success.

I'm sure they do. Of course that doesn't count the number of new subscribers they would have had, but didn't get. Or the number of future subscribers they won't get. Or the current subscribers that will cancel in six months. And of course when they see the worse-than-expected subscriber base in a year, they'll use that as the justification for another "successful" price increase. (Anyone that had cable 15 years ago knows what I'm talking about.)

I would be pretty confident that Disney has a pricing team whose entire job is to model those effects.

And I'm sure they'll do what every pricing model analyst does, which is simplify things to N=1, average across all factors to determine what the market is willing to bear according to GDP, missing out how inequality of wealth plays into these market dynamics and potential customer base. The price is affordable as per the model, but in reality the only people that can afford it are a fraction of people who have most of the wealth, because N=!1 but 8.2B, of which only a fraction have the money to spend of frivolities when fighting tooth and nail for food, housing, and healthcare.

Well, also they have reduced scaling costs as well, so they need adding in. But yes, I just renewed and I'm getting keener on not renewing again.

With all the accounting tricks it’s probably hard to know if this was a success. Likely there is a large share of the user base on trial periods or partner offers (e.g., free with T-Mobile)

These companies must be trying how far they can go before piracy starts being the easier solution again.

It already is

For example subtitles are terrible on most major streaming services, either don't exist, or are only available in one language. Sometimes they don't even have the original audio track, only a dubbed one! Piracy ensures that multi-language families can happily watch a movie together.

I don't disagree, but finding content in Italian through official or side channels is always hard. Which is sad, because it's one of the ways I make sure my kids get enough Italian exposure (we emigrated)

The only reason piracy isn't easy is because of TV vendors gatekeeping what software these TVs run.

Unless you use Plex, which allows your own content (but still disallows torrent streaming or sharing your analog TV with your users, so not ideal), you're SOL.

> Unless you use Plex, which allows your own content [...] you're SOL.

... how about connecting a computer to your TV ? Inconvenient depending on your setup, but not hopeless.

True. I wish VLC had some sort of interface browser you could use to just create your own netflix interface.

That's what Kodi is for.

Get a cheap Raspberry Pi, install LibreELEC (a minimal Linux distro that boots directly into Kodi), and you've got a turnkey full-featured media center without much cost or effort. It even supports HDMI-CEC so you can navigate on the RasPi using your TV remote.

For windows there's still going around the good old Popcorn Time in its hundredth (or so) incarnation...

Depending upon the TV type, a lot of them will let you access a networked directory from it and play media directly from it.

Unless you use Plex, which allows your own content

Or just use an AppleTV, which comes with a built-in program called "Computer" that lets you stream your own content from any Mac on the LAN.

I have about 400 movies and thousands of TV shows that I stream this way, in subscription-free bliss.

The content comes from CDs, DVDs, and Blu-rays from the library or my own purchases; and I have a $20 gadget that records OTA TV shows and movies onto a USB stick.

You don't even need an AppleTV. My Roku and Amazon TVs were both zero-configuration AirPlay targets. And generally speaking, there's not any issue with wifi streaming video - there's a noticeable input lag, but it doesn't desync audio, and videos tend not to be interactive.

Yup. I'm introducing my sister to the masterpiece that is Chrono Trigger by playing an emulated version on my Mac streamed to our Roku TV. Works great. Video is even easier.

I use https://airflow.app/ and google cast, worked on every tv I've bought for a decade. I've recently gone back to using that 100% of the time and never use Netflix/Disney.

Pirate streaming android apps on those TV boxes aren't worth the effort IMO, they are flaky and stream sources die off, torrents are always easier.

Stremio + Torrentio + a debrid service on any Android TV device is by far the easiest method for the average person and is extremely reliable.

Just follow a guide on Reddit and you're good to go 20 minutes later with no server needed. Stremio also has apps for some TV OSes like Samsung I believe but haven't tried.

I have a whole homelab setup with Plex but switched to Stremio because it's just dead simple, reliable, with a gigantic library. No waiting for downloading either, takes about 10 seconds to start streaming without interruptions.

You may be referring to those sketchy pre configured Fire TV sticks sold for 100 bucks or whatever though which are indeed a bad way to go.

There's Plex, but also things like Kodi that just turn a PC into a media center. We're in the midst of a move right now - when we settle, a Mini PC is going to replace the streaming box.

Kodi isn't available in the WebOS app library, you probably need to sideload some precompiled app, or even compile it yourself. Plex doesn't need a PC to be installed on the TV, you simply use the remote to download and open the WebOS app.

Kodi is available as a WebOS app via Homebrew Channel (https://www.webosbrew.org/) and can be installed through developer mode without even having to root your TV.

If you've got some hangup about plugging a video source in your TV -- the way we've always done prior to TV vendors deciding they wanted to not just make the screen but control what's on it -- and would prefer to use a hobbled TV OS running on an underpowered SoC instead of just using a cheap and far superior Rasperry Pi, then, yes, you can indeed still just install Kodi directly onto the TV.

So it's actually worse than I've described, you have to root your TV first...

No, you don't. Re-read my previous comment.

The link you shared literally has the following content:

Title "Get Started"

First card "Root your TV"

Description "Jailbreak your TV and install Homebrew Channel. Gain more control over your TV"

So, to install Homebrew Channel, as your comment instructs, I'd first need to root my TV. No way are any non devs capable of that.

Re-read the link you've shared.

The comment that I suggested you re-read was the one where I explained that you can install Kodi from Homebrew Channel via developer mode without rooting your TV.

> First card "Root your TV"

Now look at the second card -- the one that says "no root required".

What about just plugging an USB stick with whatever you want to watch into the TV?

The Plex solution makes it as easy as streaming, simply use the remote control whenever you want to watch something.

Imagine the USB stick flow from downloading to viewing.

If you're not using the streaming apps, there's not much reason to use the software running on the TV in the first place.

There are plenty of cheap devices that offer set-top-box experiences, if that's your thing. A cheap Raspberry Pi running Kodi usually provides a superior experience to the TV's native software even for the streaming services -- I'm paying for Netflix, Disney+, and Paramount Plus and still prefer watching them through Kodi over using the TV's apps.

For local content, you don't need anything like Plex. Just plug mass storage directly into the TV, or a RasPi, or just host it on a local server with SMB or NFS. Synology has a Media Server application that can run on your NAS at no extra cost and exposes your media library via DLNA/UPnP, and there are many other such solutions floating around.

There are huge number of options here.

My wife doesn't want to have to use 2 remote controls, and I've got friends with similar wants. Plex is the only software which works with the TV's remote, on the TV.

> Plex is the only software which works with the TV's remote, on the TV.

This is not accurate. The protocol that supports using the TV remote to operate software running on external devices is called HDMI-CEC, and it has widespread hardware and software support.

Kodi running on a Raspberry Pi supports HDMI-CEC and can be operated through the TV remote.

Thanks, I wasn't aware of HDMI-CEC prior to your comment.

It appears that my TV supports it, so it's time to build my own box.

I believe my point about Plex still stands, not a lot of people can do what developers do.

Your point about Plex ignores the rich ecosystem of hardware and software that offers equivalent or better functionality to Plex.

"Better" is relative. As I've found out from other comments, "better" requires rooting your TV, so it's actually worse from a usability perspective, in no case is rooting your TV and sideloading apps any better than simply installing an app from the TV vendor's app library.

> As I've found out from other comments, "better" requires rooting your TV,

This is not accurate. Most alternatives, in fact, do not require rooting your TV.

Look, if you like Plex, you like Plex -- you don't have to justify your preference by confidently posting incorrect information about everything else.

We're approaching that rapidly. I wanted to watch a college game on some incarnation of ESPN+, and it was a full day of negotiating with several divisions of Disney, the local provider, the reseller, and I don't even know who else... I probably could have gone to myfreesportscam.xyz or something and been good to go.

It's been easier a long time due to fragmentation alone.

It's definitely easier... And cheaper. An HDMI cable costs less than a subscription for any streaming service.

It never stopped being the easier solution if you were even a tiny bit technically literate.

"Starts"? We crossed that a while back. We're signed up to several services and it's basically the same price as cable used to be but with the added inconvenience of trying to navigate different apps and remembering "wait, was that show on Hulu, or Apple TV, or Netflix?"

To say nothing of the fact that, despite having access to what seems like an endless supply of content, it's really common to be unable to find a service that carries the movies or shows we'd like to see. I have a lengthy list of movies and TV shows that either have never made it to streaming, are only available for rental, or only have a partial showing. (e.g., only the first season of WKRP is available, it seems.)

Add to that the shit like Amazon adding ads even to the Prime subscription... eff that. Piracy is a lot more attractive if I can't even pay to get rid of ads.

>> never made it to streaming, are only available for rental, or only have a partial showing. (e.g., only the first season of WKRP is available, it seems.)

You could always own it forever: https://www.ebay.com/itm/167292774586?_skw=Wkrp+in+Cincinnat...

I do - bought it as soon as it was available. I used that as an example because I know its availability and because it's a bummer my friends can't easily watch it on my recommendation if they wanted to. (See also, "Soap" and "Barney Miller".)

Well, given that the want to move to minimum 1-year subscription during - pretty soon I’d say.

While I do think streaming is becoming a bit to expensive. We have Disney+, Max and Netflix (which we could probably do without). Those combined are still cheaper than basic cable TV, by about $25 per year, with no ads and honestly better content.

My biggest annoyance is more that it's so difficult to find anything. I know Apple have attempted to fix that on the AppleTV, but it requires everyone to implement it and only Max seems to care to do that.

The music industry figured it out, it basically doesn't matter which service you subscribe to, they'll all have almost everything, it's stupid that the TV and movie industry can't come together an have a sort of clearing house for rights, but their making more money this way.

Presumably it's because music is far cheaper to produce and distribute.

> I know Apple have attempted to fix that on the AppleTV, but it requires everyone to implement it and only Max seems to care to do that.

Netflix is the only one that does not make their content searchable in the TV app. You should be able to find all Disney/Comcast/AMC/Paramount/etc stuff in the TV app.

A resounding success then. A negligible loss of customers in the face of a 25% price increase.

Does this account for the "seasonal" watching that some people do? For example, I subscribed to Disney+ to watch Skeleton Crew recently, and then unsubscribed when the season concluded. The price change didn't factor into my decision (I wasn't even aware their prices had changed).

Together with price raise they stopped doing voice over in my language for new content and I’ve been watching it mostly together with my parents. Seeing how I’ve didnt watch anything on it for two months, I guess time to cancell to.

If their target demo are families it's not a stretch to how two households would share the subscription and so the cost then with the price increase and their recently implement single household restrictions it's getting dropped.

Does ending your subscription also end your agreement to their Terms of Service?

I don't think so. So watch out if you have any allergies and go and eat something at Disneyland. ;)

> Disney's overall revenue grew 4.8 percent

Is there a breakdown for just Disney+? As others have pointed out, losing 700K subs seems like a win considering the cost went up 15%-25%.

There was a price increase, but there was also an explicit elevation of Disney+ from a "Pressure Target" to a "Priority Target" of the BDS movement last December.[1]

I know anecdotally dozens of people, including myself, who have made the sometimes difficult decision to cancel Disney+ subscriptions to avoid crossing the picket line. I haven't heard anyone making a fuss about the price increase, specifically.

[1]: https://bdsmovement.net/Guide-to-BDS-Boycott

I'm sure it's not jusy because of their price.

Most of their latest shows are just bad and not original et all.

That's almost a negligible number considering the additional revenue the price increase brought in.

I remember when ad-free was $7/mo.

All good things come to an end. Here we are, 6 years later, with 128% markup.

We’re also at the level where you need to watch more than 4 Disney movies per week (edit: month, typo) to justify not renting. For some families this is easy - for my childhood, where we had one “movie night” per week, this would have been a tough sell.

4 per week? I see the ad-free price now is $16. 4 per week would be 16 per month. Most rentals I've seen (through something like Amazon) run $4. Am I missing a cheaper rental service that runs about $1 per film?

While they still existed, yes: video stores. Catalog movies (that is, not new releases) could often be had for $1 a night.

Most were run out of business due to streaming, but if you have one nearby, it’s almost certainly cheaper and better quality than streaming. Plus you’d be supporting a local business in the process.

Am I missing a cheaper rental service that runs about $1 per film?

Your local public library?

In some cities, they're really well stocked when it comes to video. And many have video streaming services, or sometimes even "community" subscriptions to Netflix or whatever that you can check out for a week at a time.

Your tax dollars at work.

> Am I missing a cheaper rental service that runs about $1 per film?

Honestly where I am I can buy used DVDs for €1 each. I actually went out and bought a DVD player to connect to my TV a year or so ago, because the price was just so compelling.

One benefit to physical DVDs are that they can't disappear like a streaming-service can, you paid for it and you get to own it "forever". DVDs often have subtitles, which is nice for language-learners like me.

(I used to stream content from my PC, via VLC, to a chromecase, but subtitles were never streamed. That was annoying, but not a huge deal.)

It might not apply to all, and local shops are very expensive for "new" releases, but if you have a lot of used stores DVDs are essentially free for both TV series and films.

> you need to watch more than 4 Disney movies per week to justify not renting

How so? At $16/month, that's 1 $4 rental per week. Or are you getting $1 rentals somewhere?

DVD"s sell at flea markets / yard sales for $1 doller each here.

Bad headline. 700k is virtually nothing to them.

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