Tesla's sales plummet across Europe | Hacker News Reader

Tesla's sales plummet across Europe

ft.com

41 pointsmirzap44 comments

> Tesla’s drop came as the German EV market in January grew more than 50 per cent year on year, pushing its market share down from 14 to 4 per cent.

Wow.

Thank you Europe for protesting by withholding money from this psycho.

Vote with your wallet!

I suspect that Musk has access to a lot of government funds now so will be unconcerned about the lack of Tesla sales.

https://archive.ph/bclhi

Here in Germany, the somewhat paradox situation is that the right-wing party AfD has been pro-diesel and anti-ev for a long time, while it's usually the more progressive and/or left-leaning people who have been buying EVs.

But now that Musk has done something which looked very much like a Nazi salute on stage and also meddled in German politics by endorsing the AfD, nobody on the left wants to be seen in a Tesla anymore, while the right-wingers still prefer German diesel cars.

I was thinking the same looking at France's numbers. Who's more likely to buy a Tesla and who's more likely to hate Trump and Musk? (Also taking into account that some of France's very right wing politicians were invited at Trump's inauguration) Probably more overlap than Tesla would like... Especially now that you can buy something totally alien to this alleged ideology like a Volkswagen EV...

That's the risk when getting into politics while running a business.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2025/02/tesla-sales-plummet-in-...

And discussed here (168 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42952088

Thanks - I hadn't seen that on hn. It probably got removed from the frontpage for poor quality comments

Edit: this one is now flagged

> [...] amid a consumer backlash against Elon Musk’s political activism and meddling in regional politics.

Hmm, not sure they can attribute the drop entirely to that. In the UK at least there's been a wave of Chinese brands launching (BYD, Omoda, GWM, etc.), fuel prices have fallen from the high in mid-2022[0], and EVs will soon start paying vehicle tax (£195/year, previously £0).

[0] https://www.racfoundation.org/data/uk-pump-prices-over-time

So you're saying it's exactly the wrong time for Musk to flip fascist salutes and meddle in European politics?

When buyers have a lot of choice of EV, why will they choose to buy a swasticar?

I don't think there's ever a good time for that. I'm saying it's not clear that their drop in sales is because of him, or competition, or other factors.

It's pretty clear that he did not do any sort of "fascist salute" but he is learning that in politics reality does not matter, only perception does and how often something is repeated so politicians are usually very careful...

Edit: "look exactly like" (reply below) is a QED to my point, really.

> It's pretty clear that he did not do any sort of "fascist salute"

O RLY

I guess this is basically our era's version of "point to a deer, call it a horse" (指鹿爲馬) [1]:

> Zhao Gao was contemplating treason but was afraid the other officials would not heed his commands, so he decided to test them first. He brought a deer and presented it to the Second Emperor but called it a horse. The Second Emperor laughed and said, "Is the chancellor perhaps mistaken, calling a deer a horse?" Then the emperor questioned those around him. Some remained silent, while some, hoping to ingratiate themselves with Zhao Gao, said it was a horse, and others said it was a deer. Zhao Gao secretly arranged for all those who said it was a deer to be brought before the law and had them executed instantly. Thereafter the officials were all terrified of Zhao Gao. Zhao Gao gained military power as a result of that.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhao_Gao

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."

Hadn't realised this one had such a direct antecedent.

Not sure if replies purposely ignore the point, thereby proving it, or if I am expressing it badly (Edit: OK, so it is indeed the former...)

If we want to use fancy proverbs to show our deep wisdom, I think the following French proverb is more apt to the situation: "If you want to kill your dog, accuse him of having rabies."

If your dog is foaming at the mouth and acting erratically and aggressively then he does have rabies.

It's always best to see things as they are.

Or the American saying, if it walks like a duck quacks like a duck and does a nazi salute, then it's definitely a nazi duck.

> It's pretty clear that he did not do any sort of "fascist salute"

It couldn't be more clear to me that's exactly what he did. More than once. I saw it with my own eyes.

Nah, people just don't feel like giving irrational levels of benefit of the doubt again and again and again and again.

How is that clear? The videos that I have seen look exactly like a deliberate nazi salute and I have heard that far right groups (of which I have no contact) interpreted it as such and celebrated it.

In 40 years I have never, outside of documentations about the second world war and fictional movies in that area, seen this salute. It is 100% a Nazi salute, that starts by hitting the heart and then stretching the arm. Nothing else comes even close to this that could explain such a behavior. If you don't see it you are either very ignorant or plain ... .

Also meeting the AFD that is under investigation because of it's Nazi ideologies makes it clear that he has a very good understanding of what that salute means.

Election results across Europe and America have shown that accusing people of being "far right" or "Nazi", and to call them ignorant or stupid because they want other policies does not work and only increases polarisation.

It is much more productive and useful to try to understand people's concerns but it is also not as easy.

What "concern" did Musk express with that salute?

https://www.thecanadianpressnews.ca/national/auschwitz-survi...

> accusing people of being "far right" or "Nazi", and to call them ignorant or stupid because they want other policies does not work and only increases polarisation.

This is true but this is not what's happened here. The discussion is about whether Musk's gesture is a Nazi salute. OP called ignorant people who do not see it as such. They said nothing about those people's opinions and did not accuse them of being far right or Nazis themselves. In fact OP didn't even call Musk a nazi in their post. To conclude that it was their hidden intention to do so is a leap in logic that is not obvious.

Calling someone ignorant for not interpreting what Musk did in the most extremely politically orientated way is a cheap ad hominem attack but unsurprising in the current climate, as I pointed out. Bye.

A political guy made a gesture during public political event. The gesture looked like a well known political gesture. Is it really unfair to interpret that gesture in a political way?

The whole "it is wrong to observe peoples politics and behavior and call them what they are" thing was already absurd, this is really stretching it.

Calling someone ignorant is indeed an ad-hominem, as is calling them Nazi or fascist (or, on the other side of the political spectrum, calling them woke or commie) unless they provably profess those opinions.

Given how tense the current political climate is, it's all the more important to avoid resorting in using fallacies. Name calling is one such trap, and misrepresenting one's opponent's arguments is another one.

There being support for fascists does not mean fascists are not fascists. In US in particular, Republicans and conservatives were systematically given too much benefit of doubt.

Its very well known that if somebody says something extreme, such as radical views, they tend to assume other people who dont oppose them, agree with them. The only possibility is to take your stance and give contra.

Also it‘s a difference to be against immigration versus the open salutation and worshipping of a mass murderer millions of europeans and americans have died for to stop.

For me it’s disgusting that this tabu is now broken and everybody still tries to loudly ignore it!

Here's a post [1] where someone has put video of whatever Musk's gesture was side by side with video from a Nazi rally and some later neo Nazi events.

What difference do you see between them?

[1] https://x.com/BartoSitek/status/1882081868423860315?t=8F0hL-...

Musk has been lying about full self driving for 10 years. He had already discovered that reality doesn't matter.

He lies constantly: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42902603

They were and remain two full on fascist salutes. There's no minimizing it or explaining it away: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smQNNo2a9xc

I see also a general loss of interest of the population towards EVs. The technology is kinda new, yet they already arrive enshittified from the factory. Who wants touch screen hot air controls?

Besides, range concerns and a lack of charge stations are another nail in the coffin for EVs in the EU.

ev sales are falling worldwide, this is bait journalism, germanys economy is also struggling

This is probably driven by the ongoing energy crisis and other economic factors. If we look at electricity use [0] in Germany we see the same old evidence can be seen accross the Western world. Germany is producing the lowest amount of electricity in 40 years. Last time I checked their $/kW was also awkwardly high.

If the amount electricity available is dropping, are people really going to be adding large new energy-hungry appliances like electric vehicles? I'd suggest not. Shutting off all the nuclear plants still looks pretty dumb, even in hindsight.

[0] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/electricity-prod-source-s...

How about reading the linked article before posting?

"Tesla’s drop came as the German EV market in January grew more than 50 per cent year on year, pushing its market share down from 14 to 4 per cent."

The article says the EV sales in general grew by 50%. How does your theory explain that? Do other EVs use less electricity less Teslas?

From the article:

> Tesla’s drop came as the German EV market in January grew more than 50 per cent year on year, pushing its market share down from 14 to 4 per cent.

So to answer your question, it seems like people don't mind buying new electric vehicles. They just have a problem with Tesla in particular.

No. It's due to widespread anti US-American sentiment. There's been a spate of vandalism of Tesla vehicles, scratching, daubing with slogans, smashing windows and arson. Sad for those who bought an EV to "help the planet" and are so cruelly judged by reactionary prejudice, but these cars have become a symbol of something utterly rotten. I know it's painful but perhaps you are underestimating how much visceral hatred there is out there toward Elon Musk?

Reply on news.ycombinator.com