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Comment by Hikikomori | Hacker News Reader

The current Hamas charter states that they fight Zionism, not for them being jews but for their own stated goal of stealing their land, which they have and are continuing to do. Why are you trying to pretend that Israel have not had far right forces within it for a very long time, they're currently in power. I'm not saying that Hamas is good by saying that Israel is also bad, both are bad, but only one of them came there with the goal to steal the land of the people living there.

Part of Likuds founding charter is this phrase: Between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty. Sounds familiar?

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/12/amnesty-inter...

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Almost all Israeli land was granted by the UN or won in wars started by the Arabs, not stolen. You can criticize Israel for building settlements on the West Bank in contravention of international law. And because Israel is a democratic state with the rule of law, and free speech, many Israelis do express opposition to the building of illegal settlements on the West Bank.

Meanwhile, the Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza have chosen people to govern them whose only goal is to destroy Israel and murder all Jews there. These people are possessed by an extreme Islamist ideology which has driven them insane.

The Arabs and Jews of Palestine were in essentially the same position in 1947. Look at them now. The Jews have built a successful modern state, while the Arabs are using all their resources to build tunnels to try to get in to Israel and murder Jews randomly. Clearly, the Arabs of Palestine have made stupid mistakes and should have just accepted the state in 1947.

> I'm not saying that Hamas is good by saying that Israel is also bad, both are bad, but only one of them came there with the goal to steal the land of the people living there.

If you mean Hamas was founded with the goal of stealing the land (by destroying Israel), then yes.

But it's not correct historically to talk about Jews coming to Israel to "steal" the land - the majority before the founding of Israel came as refugees looking for a place they wouldn't be oppressed, and came mostly legally as immigrants, legally buying the land, not "stealing" anything.

The majority immediately after Israel's founding were either a) the remaining European Jews that had been rounded up in concentration camps but hadn't been killed by the Holocaust, and that spent a few years in displaced persons camps with nowhere to go, until the UN collectively voted to give them a tiny patch of land in Israel, or b) Jews ethnically cleansed from the Arab world.

Apparently, it is true that the Likud manifesto of 1977 called for only Israeli sovereignty “from the river to the sea”, but this is already de facto the case as Israel are occupying the West Bank. And they don’t appear to have killed all the Arabs of the West Bank in fact. Hamas changed their charter in 2017 from a struggle against Jews to a struggle against Zionists for cosmetic reasons, by which they are presumably referring to all Jews in Israel at least, as I stated; and they have not repudiated their old charter which targets Jews not Zionists. And as a matter of fact, Hamas spent several years and used all their resources to carry out the October 7 attach in which they brutally massacred all the Jews, sorry Zionists, they could get their hands on; including deliberately targeting babies, pregnant women and families. This shows what Hamas would do if they had the wherewithal - they would murder all Jews in Israel to the last one. They have shown themselves to be literally genocidal.

Israel is responding to an attack on its people according to, above the standards of even, international law. I don’t see you calling the Ukrainians bad for fighting back against Russia. This stance is pure anti-semitism, though you may not realize or intend it.

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